Trading a defenseman after just filling a sizable defensive gap would be quite silly. On this board we were practically begging for a defenseman during the playoffs and as soon as the offseason started. The missing link in our defense was shown during the Vancouver series to be quite monstrous. We were really missing a #2-3 defenseman. Now we have one, and Jack would probably be our #3 guy in the pecking order which is where he's needed to be.
Trading a good young defenseman like him for Dustin Penner of all players would be silly, short-sighted, and frankly stupid. Good organizations do not put in the work of developing and rounding a defenseman's game just to flog him off for a player like that. It has been a process, I can't see that being the eventual end of the process. It is not an easy position to scoop up well-rounded players to play it.
However, I could understand why we'd trade him for a bonafide first line forward. But I still would not like re-opening that defensive hole.
The only way i'd be willing to let JJ go, is if he is packaged with someone to bring a proper young star forward, like a Stamkos or Parise. Since those players wont ever be moved in a trade, that means JJ should go nowhere
Let's see how many defensemen the Kings gave up on prematurely in the past...
Larry Murphy traded when he was 22 years old. The Kings obtained Ken Houston and Brian Engblom from Washington. One of, if not, the worst trades in LA Kings history. Bob Miller thinks it is the absolute worst trade the Kings ever made.
In 1987, the Kings would trade another promising young defenseman at the time when they dealt a 23 year old Gary Galley to Washington for a backup goalie named Al Jensen who would only appear in 5 games for the Kings, winning only a single game. Of course, Jensen would not play another NHL game after that season and the Kings lost a defenseman who would become very productive top three defenseman.
An infamous trade many of you will remember is when the Kings dealt 22-year old Alexei Zhitnik, who already had posted 7 points in 11 games, to the Buffalo Sabres for an out-of-shape Grant Fuhr and two young defenseman in Philippe Boucher and Denis Tsygurov. Only one out of the three players would pan out, and of course when Boucher finally proves he is a quality NHL defenseman, the Kings balk at paying him fair market value and he bolted for Dallas. Zhitnik would play for Buffalo for 10 seasons and helped lead the Sabres to the 1999 Stanley Cup Finals.
One season later, the Kings follow that up by trading 23-year old Darryl Sydor to the Dallas Stars in exchange for Doug Zmolek and Shane Churla. Naturally, Sydor would go on to register career high numbers the following season with Dallas and would go on to win two Stanley Cups, the first with the Stars in 1999 and then later with the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2004. Doug Zmolek was a punching bag and Shane Churla wouldn't last long as a King.
It seems to be a Kings tradition to prematurely give up on a player right before he hits his stride. I guess some fans are just dumb enough to want to see history repeat itself.
This post needs to be bookmarked for any time someone brings up dealing Johnson. Hell, it should probably be referred to when Hickey inevitably struggles early in his NHL career and he is suddenly thrown around as trade bait. Or Voynov. Or Forbort. Or Teubert. Or Deslauriers. Etc.
if you guys are asking for the oilers first rounder next year
you will need to add something very good to the offer(I call BS on anything from Buzz)
Say if you want to get Penner and the oilers first--as an oiler fan i would ask for johnson and Colten Teubert
Penner straight for JJ wont work from the oiler point of view--Some people might say there is not a lot of difference between JJ and ryan Whitney who the oilers already have. Since the day he was drafted people have been pushing JJ as a future norris trophy winner. JJ reminds me a lot of Ed Jovoniski--but minus the body checking.
but what i can not figure out is why the kings would go for Penner when they have Smyth?
unless you want to do a
Penner and Souray for JJ and Smyth deal?
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This post needs to be bookmarked for any time someone brings up dealing Johnson. Hell, it should probably be referred to when Hickey inevitably struggles early in his NHL career and he is suddenly thrown around as trade bait. Or Voynov. Or Forbort. Or Teubert. Or Deslauriers. Etc.
toss in the draft pick that turned into Ray Bourque as well
Kings need a pure scorer or at least a guy who can set people up. Penner is a crash the net type of guy, we have Smyth, Brown and Simmonds....we kinda need a pure sniper like Kessell, Kovy (not either exactly) or a guy like Savard to set up the 2nd line winger like Poni, Brown, or possibly Richie to inflate there numbers.
Like Johnson signing for 2 years? Or Smyth out 6 weeks when Helene (not helen!) from the L.A. Times was telling all of you it would only be a "few games". Or Greene out with shoulder surgery? Or Mitchell has 2 year offer 10 days before he signs?
Like Johnson signing for 2 years? Or Smyth out 6 weeks when Helene (not helen!) from the L.A. Times was telling all of you it would only be a "few games". Or Greene out with shoulder surgery? Or Mitchell has 2 year offer 10 days before he signs?
You would lose "calling"!
Next hand!
Ante up.
I think you do yourself a disservice by 'defending' your claims in posts like these and reiterating things you got right. It seems to be the only time you pop up around here is to be your own back up against inflammatory comments about your sources/site/hockeybuzz/credibility/etc. Your work should speak for itself, you shouldn't have to speak for it.
I know you have your sources, who sometimes get things right. I know you don't pull things out of your ass, but rather pass along every bit of info you hear. In some respects that is cool, hearing all the chitter chatter, but the odds are against you here because 90% of the things we hear simply don't come true. I hear many of the same things independently of the web that you end up posting... though I can't say the same for this Penner/Johnson silliness. Some things we hear are true in the sense that they were discussed, but don't happen. That's fine, but don't expect any credit for those because no one out there reading can substantiate a claim to something that was discussed but didn't happen. As for the things that you posted that did end up happening, waiving your correct track record around only draws more attention to the other things you don't get right.
I would love to have both Penner and Hemsky. Shoot..I would give up a 20 year old Schenn for a 27 year old Penner and a 26 year old Hemsky. They got a lot of years in them. And I think all the growing pains that Penner had are gone now.
I would love to have both Penner and Hemsky. Shoot..I would give up a 20 year old Schenn for a 27 year old Penner and a 26 year old Hemsky. They got a lot of years in them. And I think all the growing pains that Penner had are gone now.
Same stupid moves that have kept the Kings a ****** franchise for it's existence; Do NOT trade youth for questionable vets.
Jesus Christ...I've heard of bad ideas in franchise building, like trying to rebuild the Oil dynasty of the 80's but Lombardi has got to take the cake for trying to rebuild the, not even Cup winning, Oilers the 00's.
I think you do yourself a disservice by 'defending' your claims in posts like these and reiterating things you got right. It seems to be the only time you pop up around here is to be your own back up against inflammatory comments about your sources/site/hockeybuzz/credibility/etc. Your work should speak for itself, you shouldn't have to speak for it.
I know you have your sources, who sometimes get things right. I know you don't pull things out of your ass, but rather pass along every bit of info you hear. In some respects that is cool, hearing all the chitter chatter, but the odds are against you here because 90% of the things we hear simply don't come true. I hear many of the same things independently of the web that you end up posting... though I can't say the same for this Penner/Johnson silliness. Some things we hear are true in the sense that they were discussed, but don't happen. That's fine, but don't expect any credit for those because no one out there reading can substantiate a claim to something that was discussed but didn't happen. As for the things that you posted that did end up happening, waiving your correct track record around only draws more attention to the other things you don't get right.
That's my take atleast.
It is true that majority of rumors don't come true, however if the guy says that these two teams are talking who says that can't be true we just never know because its always under wraps, but I do agree that Matt doesn't have to come in here and tell everyone that he got such and such things correct that only makes you look bad as a source, let the hatters hate and let the ones who appreciate your work appreciate it.
I think you do yourself a disservice by 'defending' your claims in posts like these and reiterating things you got right. It seems to be the only time you pop up around here is to be your own back up against inflammatory comments about your sources/site/hockeybuzz/credibility/etc. Your work should speak for itself, you shouldn't have to speak for it.
I know you have your sources, who sometimes get things right. I know you don't pull things out of your ass, but rather pass along every bit of info you hear. In some respects that is cool, hearing all the chitter chatter, but the odds are against you here because 90% of the things we hear simply don't come true. I hear many of the same things independently of the web that you end up posting... though I can't say the same for this Penner/Johnson silliness. Some things we hear are true in the sense that they were discussed, but don't happen. That's fine, but don't expect any credit for those because no one out there reading can substantiate a claim to something that was discussed but didn't happen. As for the things that you posted that did end up happening, waiving your correct track record around only draws more attention to the other things you don't get right.
Kings need a pure scorer or at least a guy who can set people up. Penner is a crash the net type of guy, we have Smyth, Brown and Simmonds....we kinda need a pure sniper like Kessell, Kovy (not either exactly) or a guy like Savard to set up the 2nd line winger like Poni, Brown, or possibly Richie to inflate there numbers.
Toronto signed Clark MacArthur today. That puts their payroll at 63.5M, and that's with only 12 forwards, and without Kadri (I don't know if he's expected to make the team or not, his CAP hit is 1.7M).
They probably need to make a move. You think Burke would be interested in a deal centered around Schenn + Moller for Kessel?
Losing Schenn would hurt, but Kessel is the legit sniper we need. Not sure about his attitude though, I know him and JJ don't get along.
Like Johnson signing for 2 years? Or Smyth out 6 weeks when Helene (not helen!) from the L.A. Times was telling all of you it would only be a "few games". Or Greene out with shoulder surgery? Or Mitchell has 2 year offer 10 days before he signs?
You would lose "calling"!
Next hand!
Ante up.
Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back. You've been wrong considerably more than you've been right. Besides, nobody likes a braggart, particularly one that doesnt have a "more often right than wrong" track record.
I don't think we're good trading partners with Washington. They're trying to win NOW. Whatever we send back in exchange for Semin would have to improve their team immediately. Picks/prospects is all we really have to offer.
It's best to stay the course, keep our key youth like Johnson and Schenn, and look for a budget top 6 player than to possibly trade away our future for a bump now that will likely end in failure. I'm all for a trade or a good signing, but not at the cost of Johnson, Schenn, Bernier etc...
Toronto signed Clark MacArthur today. That puts their payroll at 63.5M, and that's with only 12 forwards, and without Kadri (I don't know if he's expected to make the team or not, his CAP hit is 1.7M).
They probably need to make a move. You think Burke would be interested in a deal centered around Schenn + Moller for Kessel?
Losing Schenn would hurt, but Kessel is the legit sniper we need. Not sure about his attitude though, I know him and JJ don't get along.
We need a legit 2nd line center even more. And we don't have the questions about attitude either...
It's best to stay the course, keep our key youth like Johnson and Schenn, and look for a budget top 6 player than to possibly trade away our future for a bump now that will likely end in failure. I'm all for a trade or a good signing, but not at the cost of Johnson, Schenn, Bernier etc...
I am all for the stay the course route unless a bonifide star lands in our lap from a team looking to shed salary.
If we can keep the core and add a significant player through free agency next year will be happy.
A look at D.L's current moves = Mitchell shores up our defence and allows us to insert a rookie to play with the steady Greene. Pony is a gap filler that can play anywhere from the first to third line. I still wish we would have taken a run at Eager as he is not only a big body that fights and hits, he can score and play defence.
An improvement of the kids, the emergance of Bernier, and hopefully a breakout year from JJ coupled with the signings should make us at least as good as last years team and on paper even better.
We have a young team thats under 25 core = Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, JJ, Simmer, Quick, and Bernier. We have legit prospects in Schenn, Clifford and Hickey who may all see time this year and we can now wait a few extra years for the Teuberts, Moller's, Forbert's and Loktionov's to develop.
In my opinion two key players for the Kings this year that could mean the difference between contenders and pretender will be Johnson and Williams. We have seen glimpses of what each can bring and if we keep them healthy and focused they may be that extra push we need.
I am happy waiting another year to see what we actually have. The growth of the youngster, the development of the rookies and the resolution of Bernier/Quick will let us know where the salary will be spent, what holes need to be filled and which trae assets we can move.
If it's factual LA and EDM had some dialogue, I'm going to assume it was Dean who called Tambellini about Penner, then was probably met with a Jack Johnson in response..phone down. Edmonton is so damn small they would be crazy to trade Penner right now, unless it was an overpayment.
