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08-15-2010, 12:56 PM
  #126
BigKing
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
And then what? Who's our 2nd line center? Handzus? Who's our tough as nails defenseman? Lombardi traded an A for two B's. Works out better.
I've always likened it to when you pick teams for basketball and the captain that picks second gets to take two guys in a row. Depending on how great the first guy chosen is, you usually get a better team picking the 2nd and 3rd best guys.

Visnovksy is not great enough to eclipse the combined efforts of Greene and Stoll. Usually the team that gets the best player wins the deal but LA walked out of this with two legit players. Bag on Stoll all you want (not directed at you Reaper) but the guy is a good hockey player.

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08-15-2010, 12:56 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Trading Brown would be a blow to the culture Lombardi and Co. are trying to build. It's not happening.
You are right. Matt Greene is part of that culture as well which is why he was signed to an extension. DL was trying to show the kids if you buy into what he is trying to build, if you give a 110% commitment to the team and you do your job to the best of your ability, you are going to get paid. IMO, Frolov, Cammy and POS fell short of that standard and are gone. Plus, Greene from what I heard is the guy in the locker room who will get in a player's face if he is not giving his all. Given that he stuck his face in the way of a puck two seasons ago to save a win, I suspect his messages are received loud an clear. I don't believe Matt Greene is overpaid when you look at the intangibles he brings, things that cannot be coached.

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08-15-2010, 12:59 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
You are right. Matt Greene is part of that culture as well which is why he was signed to an extension. DL was trying to show the kids if you buy into what he is trying to build, if you give a 110% commitment to the team and you do your job to the best of your ability, you are going to get paid. IMO, Frolov, Cammy and POS fell short of that standard and are gone. Plus, Greene from what I heard is the guy in the locker room who will get in a player's face if he is not giving his all. Given that he stuck his face in the way of a puck two seasons ago to save a win, I suspect his messages are received loud an clear. I don't believe Matt Greene is overpaid when you look at the intangibles he brings, things that cannot be coached.
As Greene himself would say regarding this post: "Jackpot".

Greene's contract is not going to hinder the team in any way. If he's overpaid, then by how much? $400M?

Worst thing about the lock-out is how everyone is so concerned about how much money their team's billionaire owner spends.

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08-15-2010, 01:02 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Loktionov is too small to be considered a center at the NHL level. He's like Moller, destined to be a winger.
Its kind of interesting to think that the probabilites of smaller type centers like Ronning would increase due to all the rule changes over the past decade to speed up the game.

Before you had the smaller centers like Gilmore, Larionov, Stevie Y, and Ronning.

I dont know of many small sized centers in the league anymore besides briere. I mean Loki is the same size or bigger than most of those players, yet in todays age, he is too small to play that position.

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08-15-2010, 01:04 PM
  #130
BigKing
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
Its kind of interesting to think that the probabilites of smaller type centers like Ronning would increase due to all the rule changes over the past decade to speed up the game.

Before you had the smaller centers like Gilmore, Larionov, Stevie Y, and Ronning.

I dont know of many small sized centers in the league anymore besides briere. I mean Loki is the same size or bigger than most of those players, yet in todays age, he is too small to play that position.
Loktionov isn't just small in the sense that he is short, he just isn't strong enough. He's still young but that injury he suffered last season was a direct result of being too weak to play in the NHL.

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08-15-2010, 01:06 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Loktionov is too small to be considered a center at the NHL level. He's like Moller, destined to be a winger.
He has the same size as Datsyuk and Crosby. Size wouldn't be the biggest problem of Loktionov, but yes he needs to gain weight (muscle).

Also:
Loktionov didn't suffer a injury after a hit or something....he made a fast move with his hand and hurt his shoulder - now that's a freak injury (like E. Johnsons Golf injury).
And he played better at the AHL level than the highly regarded E. Grachev (NYR prospect).

Also Möller biggest setback are his playmaking abilities (or lack there of). He could play on the PP but just couldn't do it ES.


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08-15-2010, 01:22 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Minor Penalty View Post
He has the same size as Datsyuk and Crosby. Size wouldn't be the biggest problem of Loktionov, but yes he needs to gain weight (muscle).

Also:
Loktionov didn't suffer a injury after a hit or something....he made a fast move with his hand and hurt his shoulder - now that's a freak injury (like E. Johnsons Golf injury).
And he played better at the AHL level than the highly regarded E. Grachev (NYR prospect).

Also Möller biggest setback are his playmaking abilities (or lack there of). He could play on the PP but just couldn't do it ES.
A guy pulled his arm back a bit and when Loktionov tried to keep him from doing so, his shoulder simply shredded since he didn't have the upper body strength to match what was not a lot of force coming the other way. Like a guy who gets his arm broken in an arm-wrestling contest, Loktionov is simply outmatched at the NHL level in regards to strength.

This was not like when Palffy had his shoulder yanked out by Todd Simpson. I actually look at his call-up as one of Lombardi's worst moves as it took away a year of development.

He is simply not ready.

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08-15-2010, 03:46 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
I've never once *****ed about Dean signing a guy with a history of health problems here, or on any board. I really don't believe in the whole, "he's been injured before, so he will definatley be injured again" way of thinking. Maybe because I'm a former player and know it just bad luck when you get hurt, not because your body is more fragile than the next guy.
.
Ok dad, did I say you *****ed about it? ning injured guys and people have *****ed when he hasnt signed injured guys. Some people have *****ed when hes over paid and people have *****ed when he hasnt overpaid. The point is people ***** no matter what he does.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 08-15-2010 at 03:48 PM. Reason: watch it with the flaming
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08-15-2010, 04:18 PM
  #134
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With just hours before the no-trade clause on Tomas Kaberle's contract is reinstated, Brian Burke says that it looks, at this point, like Kaberle will be staying with the Maple Leafs.

"If these offers are all we get...he's staying put," Burke told TSN on Sunday morning.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=330594

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Old
08-15-2010, 04:23 PM
  #135
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Don't believe Burke for a second, he's just trying to get someone to panic and up their offer.

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08-15-2010, 04:24 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Ok dad, did I say you *****ed about it? ning injured guys and people have *****ed when he hasn't signed injured guys. Some people have *****ed when hes over paid and people have *****ed when he hasn't overpaid. The point is people ***** no matter what he does.
Isn't that what the off season is for? We can't ***** about the actual games, so we ***** about management.

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08-15-2010, 04:34 PM
  #137
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Don't believe Burke for a second, he's just trying to get someone to panic and up their offer.
I half believe him. I think he feels the pressure to make the playoffs this year. Trading Kaberle will most likely hurt their chances.

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Old
08-15-2010, 04:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I half believe him. I think he feels the pressure to make the playoffs this year. Trading Kaberle will most likely hurt their chances.
Toronto needs a lot of young players to step up to make the playoffs next year. Burke needs to get another top 6 to take the pressure off of the young forwards. If that means moving Kaberle for "futures" and then moving those "futures" to another team for a top 6 remains to be seen.

There is always a lot of pressure being a Maple Leaf, especially for a young kid. They need a good start to the season to have a chance.

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08-15-2010, 04:53 PM
  #139
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Does anyone else think that DL is, or at least has, inquired about Chris Stewart? He certainly seems like a "DL type of guy." CS still hasn't resigned with the AVs, and the media has been pretty silent about it.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think Stewart might be asking for a very substantial raise. Considering his up bringing, you'd think he might be trying to get as much as he possibly can, as soon as he possibly can. Again, just speculation on my part.

Colorado has plenty of CAP space to match an offer sheet, but would they be willing to do it? One gets the impression that their finances are pretty tight at the moment.

No sure what they'd be looking for in a trade. They probably want defenseman, which, obviously, we cant' afford to give up unless they're prospects.

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Old
08-15-2010, 05:00 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Don't believe Burke for a second, he's just trying to get someone to panic and up their offer.
As of now on the TSN website, the voters pick the Leafs to finish last. Just that was funny

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Old
08-15-2010, 05:12 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Don't believe Burke for a second, he's just trying to get someone to panic and up their offer.
Burke just thinks he'll get the world for Kaberle. No Burke, Kaberle is not a top 5 d-man in the NHL. He's maybe a top 15-20 d-man. You're not gonna get the world for him. Deal with it, don't try to up his value, it's not gonna work.

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08-15-2010, 05:13 PM
  #142
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Los Angeles Kings have offered Mitchell a two-year deal, but the Vancouver Canucks are trying to move Kevin Bieksa and sign Willie Mitchell.

http://twitter.com/The_NHL_News

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Old
08-15-2010, 05:47 PM
  #143
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Oh Helen, lol:

Twitter:

Quote:
And it's Helene, not Helen. As in the twittername helenenothelen.

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Old
08-15-2010, 05:55 PM
  #144
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Mitchell was all but put to bed last night before his agent did something that while appears to be in the best interest of his client certainly wasn't kipper with how things are traditionally done. We will see how this shakes out but bad form for how things have been handled by WM's camp after last night.

As for MIDSHIPMAN's comments I have to completely disagree as well.

Greene on the open market would be paid well over the under $3m that we are giving him and lets say that we have his salary spot on, here we are looking to add another dman and are willing to give him up to as much as we pay Greene.

If you are thinking that it is bad to be paying your "bottom 3" dman so much money, maybe you should look at it this way, we aren't.

Yep, that simple. We aren't paying our "bottom 3" guys too little because what we are trying to do is *not have a bottom 3 or a bottom pairing* at all.

We are trying to have two starting quality goalies and 6 equally capable d men. That is the way championship teams who have continued success have been made and that is where we are heading.

Greene, Scuds,DD,JMFJ and lets say WM would give us a truly formidable top 5 and if we bring up one of our highly touted kids and they can stick then we might have one of the best d's in many years.

We still need a speed/sniper without a doubt but we will have built an amazingly rare back end if we can sign WM.

The other thing that I would say is that (hypothetically speaking of course) Simmonds would be a valuable piece for us to dangle and so would Voinov. Imagine if they were paired together along with a 3rd round pick, they could bring back a stud for a return.

If those players were offered together and hypothetically speaking of course.

It would have to be for a pretty special top six talent kind of guy, that is for sure.

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08-15-2010, 05:57 PM
  #145
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Oh, and Burke is exactly what his name implies, an utter Burke.

He has some seriously out of whack beliefs when he thinks that TK is worth as much as he is asking.

The market has spoken and no, is what it has said.

Now, if we can just make it through the day without TK being deal we can all rest allot easier.

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Old
08-15-2010, 06:12 PM
  #146
Sydor25
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Why does Toronto think that Kaberle is some top defenseman? All of the Toronto bloggers act like he is one of the best offensive defensemen out there, yet he only scored 3 PP goals on one of the worst teams.

From some Toronto blogger named Brad LeClair:

Quote:
Los Angeles Kings

Why: After Drew Doughty, the offence from the defence is one of the worst in the NHL. Jack Johnson, who came into the league with Chris Chelios like expectations, has pretty well flopped and really has not shown much other than being a minus pig. In fantasy hockey, you never want to draft minus pigs.
Offers: Dustin Brown or Wayne Simmonds and Thomas Hickey

So Jack's a big flop at 23 with 8 goals and 36 points? Kaberle's "huge" numbers were 7 goals and 49 points at 32.

Toronto fans need to get over themselves. 1 year of Kaberle is worth a mid-tier prospect and a draft pick. If Burke wants more, he will have to wait for the trade deadline and hope Kaberle waives his NTC.

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08-15-2010, 06:13 PM
  #147
kingsfan28
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Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Oh Helen, lol:

Twitter:
I saw that too. She's kid of touchy about that. A simple solution , instead of trying to be clever with her twitter name (confusing name btw), how about HeleneElliott.

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Old
08-15-2010, 06:26 PM
  #148
Cruel11
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I saw that too. She's kid of touchy about that. A simple solution , instead of trying to be clever with her twitter name (confusing name btw), how about HeleneElliott.
She probably didn't want it to be a simple (weirdo). Her fault.

(If I ever see her, I will call her Helen. Just to see her reaction )

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08-15-2010, 06:33 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Why does Toronto think that Kaberle is some top defenseman? All of the Toronto bloggers act like he is one of the best offensive defensemen out there, yet he only scored 3 PP goals on one of the worst teams.

From some Toronto blogger named Brad LeClair:




So Jack's a big flop at 23 with 8 goals and 36 points? Kaberle's "huge" numbers were 7 goals and 49 points at 32.

Toronto fans need to get over themselves. 1 year of Kaberle is worth a mid-tier prospect and a draft pick. If Burke wants more, he will have to wait for the trade deadline and hope Kaberle waives his NTC.
I think the funniest part about this is that while Jack's -15 is nothing special, Kablere's +/- is actually worse at -16.

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08-15-2010, 06:59 PM
  #150
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False. You are talking about a guy who was handed an "A" before even putting on a Kings sweater. If management didn't want to reward and promote the "Tattooed Ass" program, I think he would be captain over Dustin Brown. If you value locker room presence and "glue guys", than you realize that Greene is more than just a bottom pairing defenseman.

He is among the leaders in hits for a defensemen and by far the best on the Kings. He was locked up with a deal that takes him through some UFA seasons. Based on his play since signing that deal, he would easily make more than $2.95MM on the open market.

The guys in his salary range last season were Salvador, Corvo, Wiz, Staios and Tyutin. Are those guys head and shoulders above Greene? I'd say no. Tyutin maybe but he will be making $3.4MM in real dollars after next season and his contract will only take him to age 29 while Greene is locked up until age 31. Also, Greene is still making $2.75MM in real dollars for this upcoming season so the $2.95MM is cap hit.

It's a good contract and completely fair. It was scary at the time it was signed but now it looks like a good move. Don't forget that he is the other half of the "Make players come to LA to train/pal around in the Summer" along with Brown.
We'll have to disagree then. Yes, Greene brings great leadership to the Kings but that isn't enough to justify overpaying a #5/#6 d-man. He sets the table too high. What happens next summer with JJ when he can point to Greene making 3 mil per. What about the guy we need at #4? What about Simmonds? A warrior - yes, a heart and soul guy - yes. Then how much is he worth? Are you now going to overpay for that too? Greene is overpayed. I understand what you are saying but he's making too much for a bottom pairing guy. That's why you don't see many trade proposals with Greene in them. He's overpayed. If he played in the top 4 I would agree that his salary is ok. You just can't pay bottom guys 3 million per. Just like you can't pay 4th liners 3 million per.

Plus, DD is a better hitter than Greene.

I also see Greene's cap hit hurting us in the future. We'll see though.


Last edited by MIDSHIPMAN: 08-15-2010 at 07:08 PM.
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