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People fighting from the same camp (re: Dana White's Fitch/Koscheck comments)

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08-15-2010, 03:43 AM
  #1
kurt
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People fighting from the same camp (re: Dana White's Fitch/Koscheck comments)

Another tidbit from Josh Gross' "Gross Point Blank" podcast I thought I'd share.

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I think it's not because of friendship, but it's the training dynamic, really. I mean, who's gonna leave AKA, or how are the training partners going to be split up? Who is gonna determine what times the fighters are gonna have the gym, and who is gonna do the gameplan? Will Bob Cook do the gameplan for Koscheck and Javier Mendez for Fitch? How does that work, really?

I think there's a lot more to it than just saying well these two guys are gonna fight, they're friends, but they're gonna fight anyway. They're in the same camp. They're in the same camp, and that's a difficult thing to deal with.
I don't know why people are so fascinated with people from the same camp fighting in the first place, and why Dana always brings it up (Kos/Fitch, Silva/Machida, etc). He knows the sport well enough to understand the challenges this presents.

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08-15-2010, 09:42 AM
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m9
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I really don't get it, and don't get Dana's fascination with it. I don't have any interest in seeing camp guys spar for 3 or even 5 rounds, it'll likely be terrible.

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08-15-2010, 01:14 PM
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Rhett4
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I wouldn't want to watch Fitch vs. Koscheck anyway. Two wrestlers going at it...yawn.

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08-15-2010, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I wouldn't want to watch Fitch vs. Koscheck anyway. Two wrestlers going at it...yawn.
This.

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08-15-2010, 04:20 PM
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Hunter Gathers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I wouldn't want to watch Fitch vs. Koscheck anyway. Two wrestlers going at it...yawn.
Would probably be a stand-up war.

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08-15-2010, 05:01 PM
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yakitate304
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I'll never understand the hatred for wrestling in MMA, or the *****ing about Fitch. It's not flashy or eye-catching like a Jon Jones spinning kick or a slick submission, but it's still an exciting aspect of the sport. I thought Fitch vs Alves was an entertaining fight because I got to see the sheer dominance that Fitch put on him and all the little things he does differently than inferior wrestlers. It was a total clinic.

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08-15-2010, 05:44 PM
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William H Bonney
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Does Dana still harp about any teammates potentially fighting other than Fitch/Koscheck though?

He seems more intent on pissing off AKA than anything.

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08-15-2010, 05:45 PM
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Fitch is not an exciting fighter no matter how you try to spin it. This isn't bashing wrestling, as there's some really exciting wrestlers in the sport. Chael Sonnen's vicious ground and pound for example or prime Tito Ortiz are really exciting guys to watch. Hell, even Lesnar puts on a show when he fights whether you like him or not.

Guys like Jon Fitch and Rashad Evans on the other hand are the most boring fighters in the sport. They don't pass guard, they don't attempt submissions and they don't ground and pound. They use their wrestling to get top position and then dry hump their way to a decision because their opponent can't get up.

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08-15-2010, 06:39 PM
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HighAndTight
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Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
I'll never understand the hatred for wrestling in MMA, or the *****ing about Fitch. It's not flashy or eye-catching like a Jon Jones spinning kick or a slick submission, but it's still an exciting aspect of the sport. I thought Fitch vs Alves was an entertaining fight because I got to see the sheer dominance that Fitch put on him and all the little things he does differently than inferior wrestlers. It was a total clinic.
Isn't it interesting. He really doesn't do things that are all that different he just seems to recognize what the next move has to be to get the guy to the ground. For example when he had Alves against the cage and on one foot, Fitch reaches down with his free hand, grabs the ankle and pulls it out from under him and down they go...Seems really simple yet no one does it.

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08-15-2010, 10:40 PM
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Saw Jiris Tlusty
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Would probably be a stand-up war.
Pretty much. Two guys with equal wrestling usually cancels that out and they just go on an all out war standing up.

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08-15-2010, 11:52 PM
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not being a huge MMA buff myself, but a casual fan. I think the problem that Dana has is that it prevents some top fights from happening and as the sport continues to grow that can become a HUGE obstacle. I'd love to see a Silva vs Machida fight, but it'll never happen b/c they are in the same camp.

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08-16-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Does Dana still harp about any teammates potentially fighting other than Fitch/Koscheck though?

He seems more intent on pissing off AKA than anything.
In fairness I think Fitch and Koscheck are pretty much the only guys from the same camp who are top-5 in the same UFC weight class. So it makes it harder to find other meaningful matchups if they refuse to fight one another. He used to harp about Rashad/Jardine as well, back when Jardine had at least some claim to being a contender.

You're right that Dana has been at odds with AKA of course, but I think the Fitch/Kos thing is more likely a contributing factor to that animosity, rather than a result of it.

e: for the record, I think a Fitch/Kos fight could be pretty entertaining as long as both guys were mentally up for it.

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08-16-2010, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
I'll never understand the hatred for wrestling in MMA, or the *****ing about Fitch. It's not flashy or eye-catching like a Jon Jones spinning kick or a slick submission, but it's still an exciting aspect of the sport. I thought Fitch vs Alves was an entertaining fight because I got to see the sheer dominance that Fitch put on him and all the little things he does differently than inferior wrestlers. It was a total clinic.
I've never been bored by a GSP fight the way some people have but I can't stand Fitch's fights. Maybe it's that if GSP wrestles the whole match he's at least got the aspect to his game where you know he could still knock someone out or submit them. Fitch has proven over and over that that is not in his game and it never will be. Like it or not the UFC is entertainment and I don't blame Dana for backing off making him the number one contender because a headline with Fitch is most likely going to be boring as hell.

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08-21-2010, 02:03 PM
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The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Another tidbit from Josh Gross' "Gross Point Blank" podcast I thought I'd share.



I don't know why people are so fascinated with people from the same camp fighting in the first place, and why Dana always brings it up (Kos/Fitch, Silva/Machida, etc). He knows the sport well enough to understand the challenges this presents.
Yeah, it really doesn't make sense for a lot of reasons. That said, with three top fighters in the WW division being from AKA, it really limits the UFC match-making process. Atleast one of them should consider moving to a different camp.

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08-21-2010, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saw Jiris Tlusty View Post
Pretty much. Two guys with equal wrestling usually cancels that out and they just go on an all out war standing up.
Why would their wrestling be equal? People always assume a stand-up war will break out when two wrestlers face off, as if their wrestling skills will cancel out. If that were true, why doesn't every high level wrestling competition from the NCAA to the Olympics not end in a series of intractable stalements?

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08-21-2010, 05:25 PM
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Pax Macioretty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
I'll never understand the hatred for wrestling in MMA, or the *****ing about Fitch. It's not flashy or eye-catching like a Jon Jones spinning kick or a slick submission, but it's still an exciting aspect of the sport. I thought Fitch vs Alves was an entertaining fight because I got to see the sheer dominance that Fitch put on him and all the little things he does differently than inferior wrestlers. It was a total clinic.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If my mom would of showed me a John Fitch fight when I was 6 years old, I would of NEVER watched any MMA event again. There's nothing remotely exciting about holding on to a fighter like glue and throwing a weak punch once every 25 sec. His last 8 fight ended with a decision and were boring as hell except the one he almost got KO'd by St. Pierre. Go watch Thiago vs Fitch again and tell me you don't understand the hatred....

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