HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospect Updates 2010-11

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-10-2010, 12:27 AM
  #1176
senatoilers*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
If I had more time, I would do a little research showing that the vast majority of SEL prospects do not spend time in the AHL and make the jump in the NHL right away. I<m sure it<s at least a 80/20 ratio

The SEL is a pro league and is as good if not better than the AHL. Of course, players don't put huge offensive stats but that's because they play very tight systems in there.

Just think about it. Remove all the europeans from the NHL, send them back in their countries, and diluate all the NA players into 30 teams. SEL would > NHL then

The plan is that Rundblad makes the NHL right away. If he struggles, they can send him down to adjust (ala Karlsson)
Ok I thought about it... Still sounds as ludicrous as it did when I first read it. Not only does NA have more top end talent, they have a huge advantage in depth, size, physicality and probably goaltending with a miller/luongo tandem. Hell we just watched canada and the us dominate the olympics and canada didn't even bring the current nhl goals and points leader. I understand the french canadian fascination with everything euro (see love for soccer, chanting ole, pointless rioting, socialist views, and general whining), but let's be reality please.

senatoilers* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:58 AM
  #1177
ElBorba1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
Rundblad will make the team next year as a top 5 defenseman.

ElBorba1 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 07:46 AM
  #1178
kyle747
Registered User
 
kyle747's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElBorba1 View Post
Rundblad will make the team next year as a top 5 defenseman.
A bold statement, and very unlikely, but I hope you are correct. If Rundblad looks ready he'll probably spend some time in the AHL, for the simple reason that they will want to ensure he doesn't break down. If convinced, they'll have to arrange a mid-season trade to get him into the NHL lineup. And Matt Carkner will not be traded.

It would probably be Kuba he would replace. Asking a rookie to replace Kuba= unlikely but possible.

Remember, we are trying to ice the best team possible, not the youngest one.

kyle747 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 09:15 AM
  #1179
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,710
vCash: 500
The biggest hangup for Rundblad making the team is the fact that we are already loaded with offensive type defensemen. I'd say the top 3 "defense" positions on the PP are LOCKED with Gonchar, Karlsson and Kuba. Campoli is a wildcard, I will admit I have been very impressed with his play recently, the thing is we don't know what kind of salary increase he will be looking for or whether we can afford it. If Campoli sticks around, having a guy like Rundblad whose main asset is puck movement and offense seems superfluous.


On the other hand Cowen brings an asset we have too few of in a huge defensive monster, much like Karlsson did last year but on the other side of the puck.

Rundblad will need a hell of a camp to make it over Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba, Campoli, Cowen, Carkner...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post

The SEL is a pro league and is as good if not better than the AHL. Of course, players don't put huge offensive stats but that's because they play very tight systems in there.

Just think about it. Remove all the europeans from the NHL, send them back in their countries, and diluate all the NA players into 30 teams. SEL would > NHL then
Would we get all our players back as well? Many NA players are doing very well in European leagues.

It would obviously have less impact but would help make our teams more competitive.

Either that or you dissolve some teams as we no longer have enough players to ice teams.

Bileur is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 09:21 AM
  #1180
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,172
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
The biggest hangup for Rundblad making the team is the fact that we are already loaded with offensive type defensemen. I'd say the top 3 "defense" positions on the PP are LOCKED with Gonchar, Karlsson and Kuba. Campoli is a wildcard, I will admit I have been very impressed with his play recently, the thing is we don't know what kind of salary increase he will be looking for or whether we can afford it. If Campoli sticks around, having a guy like Rundblad whose main asset is puck movement and offense seems superfluous.


On the other hand Cowen brings an asset we have too few of in a huge defensive monster, much like Karlsson did last year but on the other side of the puck.

Rundblad will need a hell of a camp to make it over Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba, Campoli, Cowen, Carkner...



Would we get all our players back as well? Many NA players are doing very well in European leagues.

It would obviously have less impact but would help make our teams more competitive.
I think Kuba will be moved for forward help if we can't find a sufficient top 6er through free agency. If we have all our spots filled, I agree that Rundblad will need to be superb

wubwubwubwub is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 09:59 AM
  #1181
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Just think about it. Remove all the europeans from the NHL, send them back in their countries, and diluate all the NA players into 30 teams. SEL would > NHL then


I don't think you realize how deep the NA pool of talent is. The NA game would miss some exciting Euros but it would not be a huge loss.

Last year
Top 100 point producers = 71 from NA
Top 200 point producers = 140 from NA
Top 300 point producers = 219 from NA

Number one goalie in NHL not from NA
Hiller, Kipper, Lehtonen, Khabby, Vokoun, Backstrom, Halak, Rinne, Lundqvist, Bryz, Niity, Gus, Valamov, Rask (thomas took job back)

80's style scores with those goalies gone

NA>> the world

The Fuhr* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 10:41 AM
  #1182
DDT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
The biggest hangup for Rundblad making the team is the fact that we are already loaded with offensive type defensemen. I'd say the top 3 "defense" positions on the PP are LOCKED with Gonchar, Karlsson and Kuba. Campoli is a wildcard, I will admit I have been very impressed with his play recently, the thing is we don't know what kind of salary increase he will be looking for or whether we can afford it. If Campoli sticks around, having a guy like Rundblad whose main asset is puck movement and offense seems superfluous.


On the other hand Cowen brings an asset we have too few of in a huge defensive monster, much like Karlsson did last year but on the other side of the puck.

Rundblad will need a hell of a camp to make it over Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba, Campoli, Cowen, Carkner...
He doesn't have to make it over Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson or Kuba, or even Cowen. All he has to do is out-play Campoli, and no one else, since their skill sets are similar. Heck, it's not even a given that Campoli re-signs this off-season... I know he's an RFA, but if he's looking for too much of a raise, the team may pass, or sign and trade.

DDT is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 11:06 AM
  #1183
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Your not going to go with two rookies on the bottom pair. Recipie for disaster.

Our D next season
Phillips-Gonchar
Kuba-Karlsson
Campoli-??
Carkner

?? = Cowen OR Rundblad OR Wiercioch

I think Carkner would be a fine number 7
I would not want to be bringing two rookies in at the same time... need a vet if not Campoli then a player like him

The Fuhr* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 11:34 AM
  #1184
BigEyedPhish
Registered User
 
BigEyedPhish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: :D
Country: United States
Posts: 7,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Your not going to go with two rookies on the bottom pair. Recipie for disaster.

Our D next season
Phillips-Gonchar
Kuba-Karlsson
Campoli-??
Carkner

?? = Cowen OR Rundblad OR Wiercioch

I think Carkner would be a fine number 7
I would not want to be bringing two rookies in at the same time... need a vet if not Campoli then a player like him
I agree.. see who performs better in training camp Rundbland or Cowen to see who gets the spot, I think Cowen is probably more the type of player we need, but I think it would be better for his offensive game to get time in the AHL.

Also from what I have seen in the AHL unless Wiercioch does a completely rediculous 180 he will be in the AHL for awhile.. When they said he was sort of a project player I guess they really meant it. The good news is that we have ALL the time in the world.

BigEyedPhish is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 11:41 AM
  #1185
SurMartin
Registered User
 
SurMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: København/Skellefteå
Country: Sami
Posts: 1,250
vCash: 500
Even though he's great: as many of you have said, I think Rundblad will need some time adjusting to the smaller rinks -Getting used to having less time and space.

It was just announced today that Rundblad will be playing with an 'A' on his jersey in the upcoming Karjala Cup. (Magnus Johansson C, David Petrasek A) Sweden will be facing reigning world champions Czech tomorrow.

SurMartin is online now  
Old
11-10-2010, 11:45 AM
  #1186
ElBorba1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
A bold statement, and very unlikely, but I hope you are correct. If Rundblad looks ready he'll probably spend some time in the AHL, for the simple reason that they will want to ensure he doesn't break down. If convinced, they'll have to arrange a mid-season trade to get him into the NHL lineup. And Matt Carkner will not be traded.

It would probably be Kuba he would replace. Asking a rookie to replace Kuba= unlikely but possible.

Remember, we are trying to ice the best team possible, not the youngest one.
In this case will it happens, he will make the team as a top 5 defenseman.

ElBorba1 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 11:49 AM
  #1187
ElBorba1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
Rundblad will need a hell of a camp to make it over Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba, Campoli, Cowen, Carkner...

He will have a good camp but he's better than Campoli, Cowen and Carkner right now. And he will improve until it's time for him to move over next year.

ElBorba1 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 12:20 PM
  #1188
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Your not going to go with two rookies on the bottom pair. Recipie for disaster.

Our D next season
Phillips-Gonchar
Kuba-Karlsson
Campoli-??
Carkner

?? = Cowen OR Rundblad OR Wiercioch

I think Carkner would be a fine number 7
I would not want to be bringing two rookies in at the same time... need a vet if not Campoli then a player like him
It could get tricky. Like other and I have said it depends on what Campoli's looking for....perhaps the better he plays for us now the more likely he is to be gone. He's been good lately...but I just don't think he's gonna be worth the money he's going to want if he continues to play well...not that we don't have the money to pay him beyond this season...I think it's the term that may be the problem....anything beyond a 1 year deal basically makes little sense.

We may be forced to make an educated guess on Rundblad or Weircioch/Campoli at season's end.

I don't think having two rookies is that bad either, not ideal, but it may not be a killer. Washington's a contender and they've got Alzner and Carlson...I realize Carlson is barely a rookie but if Rundblad is taking 23-25 minutes a game for a top team in the SEL I don't think it's a stretch that he could take 12-14 to start in the league next year with Cowen. We don't really know how ready these guys are but it's possible they could both be taking those 12-14 minutes in the NHL right...and in regards to Rundblad...we REALLY don't have a clue.

Tons can happen though, we've got options and we probably have a couple tough decisions to make.

Minister of Offence is online now  
Old
11-10-2010, 01:54 PM
  #1189
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Alzner is also 22 with two years of AHL under him and 51NHL ganes coming into the season.

Cowen and Rundblad are coming in green to NA pro hockey

The Fuhr* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 01:58 PM
  #1190
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 13,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatoilers View Post
Ok I thought about it... Still sounds as ludicrous as it did when I first read it. Not only does NA have more top end talent, they have a huge advantage in depth, size, physicality and probably goaltending with a miller/luongo tandem. Hell we just watched canada and the us dominate the olympics and canada didn't even bring the current nhl goals and points leader. I understand the french canadian fascination with everything euro (see love for soccer, chanting ole, pointless rioting, socialist views, and general whining), but let's be reality please.
OK. When you judge someone's else comment, you initially have to UNDERSTAND that comment. But don't worry, you're not alone it seems.

Although I tought I was very clear. Here is what I said :

Quote:
Remove all the europeans from the NHL, send them back in their countries, and diluate all the NA players into 30 teams. SEL would > NHL then
Just on the Sens, remove :
Alfredsson, Regin, Kovalev, Michalek, Ruutu, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba

That means you have to replace this talent by NA players who actually are in Europe, AHL players, or free agent left-overs or more NA prospects… That means Jonathan Cheechoo, Sean Donovan, Jason Smith and Randy Robitaille would probably still be on this team

Now think about that situation in Detroit, Vancouver, Minnesota, Columbus, well everywhere.


And... I NEVER TALKED ABOUT NATIONAL TEAMS. I dunno where you got that idea. It wasn’t mine…

It is very simple. Take every NHL team, remove all europeans and fill the holes with “left-overs”. Now send back those europeans home (Swedish players back to SEL for example) and you drastically improve those teams (SEL teams in that case) and now they would easily match (IMO) against aweakned NHL teams.


Finally, I’m not french canadian, I have been living here for a while but I’m an European. And there is no fascination. It’s just that people here in QC understand their origins and want to get in touch with it. Like people in Ontario should connect with England<s culture. The NA history isn’t very old by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
You mean like they do at the world juniors ?
No... lol who talked about world juniors? It wasn't me... it wasn't me... it wasn't me (music notes)

I dunno where you guys got all that?


Sorry, but you should understand why I didn't bother adressing the rest of your post


Last edited by Xspyrit: 11-10-2010 at 02:04 PM.
Xspyrit is online now  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:22 PM
  #1191
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 13,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
Would we get all our players back as well? Many NA players are doing very well in European leagues.

It would obviously have less impact but would help make our teams more competitive.

Either that or you dissolve some teams as we no longer have enough players to ice teams.
Sure. I'm happy someone understood the idea. lol

Of course if you reduce the number of teams (let's say 30 to 20), NHL teams would remain superior against improved SEL teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post


I don't think you realize how deep the NA pool of talent is. The NA game would miss some exciting Euros but it would not be a huge loss.

Last year
Top 100 point producers = 71 from NA
Top 200 point producers = 140 from NA
Top 300 point producers = 219 from NA

Number one goalie in NHL not from NA
Hiller, Kipper, Lehtonen, Khabby, Vokoun, Backstrom, Halak, Rinne, Lundqvist, Bryz, Niity, Gus, Valamov, Rask (thomas took job back)

80's style scores with those goalies gone

NA>> the world
Are you sure about those numbers?

Sedin, Sedin, Malkin, Backstrom, Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Ovechkin, Gaborik, M.Koivu, Kovalchuk, Semin, Kopitar, Stastny, Eriksson, Plekanec, Antropov, J.Jokinen, Wolski, Huselius, Afinogenov, Weiss, Prospal, Havlat, Samuelsson, Vanek, S.Koivu, Krejci, Hornqvist, Hossa, Fleischmann, Frolov, Ponikarovsky, Voracek, O.Jokinen, Gonchar, Enstrom.

That's 37 players in the top-102 in scoring... It's not like almost 40% was nothing.

You think it wouldn't be a huge loss if all those players go?

Don't worry europeans domination will come, they just started to get more interested in that sport. Although, there is so many major sports in Europe. Hockey is not on top of the list.

But otherwise you didn't really understood my comment either. Never tought it was so complicated. Only 1/4 people got it

Xspyrit is online now  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:26 PM
  #1192
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Paul Stastny - Born Dec 27 1985 -- Quebec City, PQ
Stephen Weiss - Born Apr 3 1983 -- Toronto, ONT

Can't make up Euros

The Fuhr* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:29 PM
  #1193
kyle747
Registered User
 
kyle747's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
OK. When you judge someone's else comment, you initially have to UNDERSTAND that comment. But don't worry, you're not alone it seems.

Although I tought I was very clear. Here is what I said :



Just on the Sens, remove :
Alfredsson, Regin, Kovalev, Michalek, Ruutu, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba

That means you have to replace this talent by NA players who actually are in Europe, AHL players, or free agent left-overs or more NA prospects… That means Jonathan Cheechoo, Sean Donovan, Jason Smith and Randy Robitaille would probably still be on this team

Now think about that situation in Detroit, Vancouver, Minnesota, Columbus, well everywhere.


And... I NEVER TALKED ABOUT NATIONAL TEAMS. I dunno where you got that idea. It wasn’t mine…

It is very simple. Take every NHL team, remove all europeans and fill the holes with “left-overs”. Now send back those europeans home (Swedish players back to SEL for example) and you drastically improve those teams (SEL teams in that case) and now they would easily match (IMO) against aweakned NHL teams.


Finally, I’m not french canadian, I have been living here for a while but I’m an European. And there is no fascination. It’s just that people here in QC understand their origins and want to get in touch with it. Like people in Ontario should connect with England<s culture. The NA history isn’t very old by the way.



No... lol who talked about world juniors? It wasn't me... it wasn't me... it wasn't me (music notes)

I dunno where you guys got all that?


Sorry, but you should understand why I didn't bother adressing the rest of your post
Obviously there must be a language barrier for you. My comment was in the context of how Canada could ice 20 junior teams that would still be able to win gold in the world junior's.

So I'll put it in simpler context for you. No matter how 'diluted' you believe the NHL talent pool would be minus European players, they would still have no trouble polishing off SEL teams. Every day and all the time.

/endfile

kyle747 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:35 PM
  #1194
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Obviously there must be a language barrier for you. My comment was in the context of how Canada could ice 20 junior teams that would still be able to win gold in the world junior's.

So I'll put it in simpler context for you. No matter how 'diluted' you believe the NHL talent pool would be minus European players, they would still have no trouble polishing off SEL teams. Every day and all the time.

/endfile
Bang on

The Fuhr* is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 02:37 PM
  #1195
Lenny the Lynx
Registered User
 
Lenny the Lynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
A bit late to say this but Pierre DOrion is on the Team 1200 right now talking about prospects - great things to say about Sorensen and Stone so far

Edit: I missed a bunch of it, but there was a cool story about Sorensen. I guess they got tipped off about him by someone on staff in Sweden (Forsberg probably), but were told he looked like a real gem that nobody knew about, so they shouldn't go watch him in case other teams found out they were looking at him. So they had to convince the Murrays to draft him without ever seeing him play except on tape. The swedish scout said he was a Zetterberg type and the Czech guy said he's a Havlat type. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist.


Last edited by Lenny the Lynx: 11-10-2010 at 02:50 PM.
Lenny the Lynx is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 03:02 PM
  #1196
dmarc
SENS!!!!!!!
 
dmarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Names View Post
Even though he's great: as many of you have said, I think Rundblad will need some time adjusting to the smaller rinks -Getting used to having less time and space.

It was just announced today that Rundblad will be playing with an 'A' on his jersey in the upcoming Karjala Cup. (Magnus Johansson C, David Petrasek A) Sweden will be facing reigning world champions Czech tomorrow.
Impressive for being the second youngest guy on the team (only 5 days older than Silf )

dmarc is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 03:08 PM
  #1197
Tuna99
Registered User
 
Tuna99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,271
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BumperStumper View Post
A bit late to say this but Pierre DOrion is on the Team 1200 right now talking about prospects - great things to say about Sorensen and Stone so far

Edit: I missed a bunch of it, but there was a cool story about Sorensen. I guess they got tipped off about him by someone on staff in Sweden (Forsberg probably), but were told he looked like a real gem that nobody knew about, so they shouldn't go watch him in case other teams found out they were looking at him. So they had to convince the Murrays to draft him without ever seeing him play except on tape. The swedish scout said he was a Zetterberg type and the Czech guy said he's a Havlat type. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist.
I remember before the draft A Forsberg said his favorite thing about scouting was "hiding" players frm other teams, I guess this is what he was talking about. Great find by the Senators, it'll be god to see him at the WJC, see what type of player he is.

I heard he was a Briere type, always in the crease with great hands.

Tuna99 is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 03:15 PM
  #1198
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BumperStumper View Post
A bit late to say this but Pierre DOrion is on the Team 1200 right now talking about prospects - great things to say about Sorensen and Stone so far

Edit: I missed a bunch of it, but there was a cool story about Sorensen. I guess they got tipped off about him by someone on staff in Sweden (Forsberg probably), but were told he looked like a real gem that nobody knew about, so they shouldn't go watch him in case other teams found out they were looking at him. So they had to convince the Murrays to draft him without ever seeing him play except on tape. The swedish scout said he was a Zetterberg type and the Czech guy said he's a Havlat type. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist.
Bone-zone!

Wham City is offline  
Old
11-10-2010, 03:20 PM
  #1199
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I remember before the draft A Forsberg said his favorite thing about scouting was "hiding" players frm other teams, I guess this is what he was talking about. Great find by the Senators, it'll be god to see him at the WJC, see what type of player he is.

I heard he was a Briere type, always in the crease with great hands.
Am I the only one who is hoping Forsberg's coaching career does not work out so he comes back into the fold? (feeling slightly guilty as well)

Bileur is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.