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Jiri Hudler

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08-16-2010, 10:22 PM
  #1
checkerdome
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Jiri Hudler

How much of an impact did Jiri Hudler have on the KHL last year?

Was he considered one of the top players in the league?

(I saw that he scored 19 goals and had 54 points in 54 games with Moscow Dynamo.)

I wonder if an NHL proven player in his prime choosing to play in the KHL contributed to the credibility of the league.

Do fans and journalists believe Hudler came to the KHL strictly for the money, or did other factors contribute to his decision to leave the NHL?


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08-17-2010, 12:07 AM
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As a Dynamo fan, I was happy to have him on the team, especially considering the poor performance of the 2 overhyped Swedes. He did well for the team, but was not the best, nor a star in the KHL. He was a just a really good player.

I dont really know what you mean by credibility of the league.

He wasnt very vocal and journalists didnt write much about the motive behind the move. Obviously if Detroit could have matched the offer, he would have stayed. Then again, everytime he spoke, he only had positive things to say about Dynamo and KHL. Also, he did not at all regret his move.

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08-17-2010, 02:39 PM
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there were rumors, that he was gonna bolt during the season, he came strictly for the money - it's obvious.

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08-17-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunost View Post
I dont really know what you mean by credibility of the league.

Rightly or wrongly, fairly or not, whenever an NHL player who could be a regular in that league comes to the KHL, it contributes to the perception that the Kontinental League is on an equal footing with the NHL.


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08-18-2010, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
Rightly or wrongly, fairly or not, whenever an NHL player who could be a regular in that league comes to the KHL, it contributes to the perception that the Kontinental League is on an equal footing with the NHL.

I don't think anybody believes that the KHL is on equal footing with the NHL.
What Huder's situation proves is that the KHL is a viable alternative to the NHL......one where perhaps the elite KHL clubs are equal to lower level NHL ones.

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08-18-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
I don't think anybody believes that the KHL is on equal footing with the NHL.
What Huder's situation proves is that the KHL is a viable alternative to the NHL......one where perhaps the elite KHL clubs are equal to lower level NHL ones.
that's precisely right.

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08-19-2010, 10:03 AM
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Its all nice right now because KHL's teams have some money but something will need to be done in order for the KHL to keep the salaries going. Fringe NHL player (Martin St-Pierre for example) will get a lot more playing in Russia than he could ever imagine playing in NA. But he's not a NHL quality player, but he's getting paid like 1M a year. Which is ridiculous. Once the sponsors will get tired, and they will at one point, salaries will be comparable to other top euro league.
But for now, it is a very desirable and lucrative league for 2nd tier and older players.

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08-19-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Its all nice right now because KHL's teams have some money but something will need to be done in order for the KHL to keep the salaries going. Fringe NHL player (Martin St-Pierre for example) will get a lot more playing in Russia than he could ever imagine playing in NA. But he's not a NHL quality player, but he's getting paid like 1M a year. Which is ridiculous. Once the sponsors will get tired, and they will at one point, salaries will be comparable to other top euro league.
But for now, it is a very desirable and lucrative league for 2nd tier and older players.
As long as the economy remains stable, most sponsors won't get 'tired' of funding teams.....to a degree there are government incentives for them to do it.

BTW, I highly doubt Neftekhimik is paying $1 million for Martin St. Pierre. Someone of his level is probably getting half that.

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08-19-2010, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
As long as the economy remains stable, most sponsors won't get 'tired' of funding teams.....to a degree there are government incentives for them to do it.

BTW, I highly doubt Neftekhimik is paying $1 million for Martin St. Pierre. Someone of his level is probably getting half that.
No joke, St-Pierre makes just under 1M. And we are already seeing teams in bad financial situation... They are paying good players stupid amount of money (Nabokov, Grebeshkov). Now they might be able to have a better return on these players because of marketing (since the are from russia) but paying 4-5M for Hudler is just ridiculous. They have to overpay NA players to go there instead of them going in more "immigrant" friendly country like Sweden, Germany, Finland or Switzerland.

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08-19-2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
No joke, St-Pierre makes just under 1M. And we are already seeing teams in bad financial situation... They are paying good players stupid amount of money (Nabokov, Grebeshkov). Now they might be able to have a better return on these players because of marketing (since the are from russia) but paying 4-5M for Hudler is just ridiculous. They have to overpay NA players to go there instead of them going in more "immigrant" friendly country like Sweden, Germany, Finland or Switzerland.
Teams in bad financial situations are the bottom feeders of the KHL (ones who don't purchase NHLers). Obviously, Dynamo was the exception....but there are exceptions to everything. One could, likewise, say the NHL is in poor shape and point to Phoenix as an example.

And nobody is overpaying players......a player is worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
Actually, if there is such thing as overpayment, I'd say the NHL is overpaying its superstars at the expense of its mid/lower level talent. As a result, these mid/low level NHLers are signing in the KHL and getting paid what they're worth but can't get in the NHL because of the cap.



Do you have a link for St. Pierre's salary? No team is paying AHL level players 1 million.....especially Neftekhimik for an unproven KHL player.

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08-19-2010, 01:08 PM
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Actually it is St. Pierre second go in Russia. In played breilfy with Khimik a few years back. He left cause he didnt like it. ( His contract was also just shy of the 1M mark) He was 24-25 at the time. I have no links for his salary... I know what he's making roughly because we come from the same area near Ottawa and I know other NHL/AHL/KHL players.

If bottom feeders cannot lure players for NA, they will never be competitive, which means sponsors will get out of this situation.

And yes some teams are doing poorly in NA. But because of revenue sharing they can manage to pay the players. The NHL is a gate revenue league, which means that whatever the NHL make, the players will get some fifthe something % of it. The NHL have escrow accounts which mean if the NHL make less revenue, the players have to give some money back.

On a now 23 teams league, if your 4-5 bottom feeders are in bad financial situtation, that means 20 to 25% of your league is not doing good. And the most storied team just fold because of money problem. There are also rumors about team (can't remember which one, Yaroslav maybe but not sure) that had financial problem. This rumor was shut down (there is always smoke before fire!!!)

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08-19-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Do you have a link for St. Pierre's salary? No team is paying AHL level players 1 million.....especially Neftekhimik for an unproven KHL player.
I will have to go with this

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08-19-2010, 01:30 PM
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Anyhow, it's been proven in the past that minor league (we like it or not, KHL is a minor league) cannot compete with establish major league... Not just in hockey, but any sports. KHL is a viable option, but it will never rival the NHL. Money for one is not there. KHL teams will try to match the player salary, sometime they will. But stars like Kovalchuk, Ovechkin can double their salaries with sponsors, which in russia, they cannot do. As much as the occasional russia star (radulov) will go back to his roots (which I totally understand), the NA stars players in their prime will NEVER leave their continenent.

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08-19-2010, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Actually it is St. Pierre second go in Russia. In played breilfy with Khimik a few years back. He left cause he didnt like it. ( His contract was also just shy of the 1M mark) He was 24-25 at the time. I have no links for his salary... I know what he's making roughly because we come from the same area near Ottawa and I know other NHL/AHL/KHL players.

Under no circumstance would Khimik of the RSL pay Martin St. Pierre a million dollars. I don't care what you hear, that's just laughable.

Edit: By the way, Dynamo didn't fold. It was basically a calculated salary dump because sugar daddy with funding contacts Golovkov went to SKA. Dynamo is and will always be Dynamo....they just essentially picked up MVD's roster.


Last edited by Zine: 08-19-2010 at 04:45 PM.
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08-19-2010, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Anyhow, it's been proven in the past that minor league (we like it or not, KHL is a minor league) cannot compete with establish major league... Not just in hockey, but any sports. KHL is a viable option, but it will never rival the NHL. Money for one is not there. KHL teams will try to match the player salary, sometime they will. But stars like Kovalchuk, Ovechkin can double their salaries with sponsors, which in russia, they cannot do. As much as the occasional russia star (radulov) will go back to his roots (which I totally understand), the NA stars players in their prime will NEVER leave their continenent.

Of course, as a league the KHL can't compete with the NHL......who's saying otherwise? That wasn't your original point though.
You originally insinuated that what the KHL is doing NOW is unsustainable and sponsors will eventually tire of throwing money at teams.
Fact: As long as the economy keeps stable, the elite KHL teams (ones that draw NHL talent) will have no problem with funding. Especially state sponsored ones.

Sorry, but I can't believe anyone who's evidence is based on "I hear things", "there are rumours" and "where there's smoke there's fire". For the forseeable future, teams like SKA, Salavat, Lokomotiv, Magnitka, will have no problem with funding.


BTW, the KHL isn't a minor league...it's the 2nd best league in the world. KHL, SEL, SM Liiga hardly qualify as 'minor leagues'.

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08-19-2010, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Of course, as a league the KHL can't compete with the NHL......who's saying otherwise? That wasn't your original point though.
You originally insinuated that what the KHL is doing NOW is unsustainable and sponsors will eventually tire of throwing money at teams.
Fact: As long as the economy keeps stable, the elite KHL teams (ones that draw NHL talent) will have no problem with funding. Especially state sponsored ones.

Sorry, but I can't believe anyone who's evidence is based on "I hear things", "there are rumours" and "where there's smoke there's fire". For the forseeable future, teams like SKA, Salavat, Lokomotiv, Magnitka, will have no problem with funding.


BTW, the KHL isn't a minor league...it's the 2nd best league in the world. KHL, SEL, SM Liiga hardly qualify as 'minor leagues'.

i think North Americans just don't understand European sports Leagues, look at the premier league in the UK, the biggest football league in the world with also the biggest average attendance yet also with massive debt and highly dependable on rich owners and investors, not saying this is a good thing but thats how it is in many european sports leagues, on big scale and small scale...

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08-19-2010, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Under no circumstance would Khimik of the RSL pay Martin St. Pierre a million dollars. I don't care what you hear, that's just laughable.

Edit: By the way, Dynamo didn't fold. It was basically a calculated salary dump because sugar daddy with funding contacts Golovkov went to SKA. Dynamo is and will always be Dynamo....they just essentially picked up MVD's roster.
Its true, I was upset at first, but its nothing. Its all still Dynamo, the ohk is redundant. Everything there is still the same, exept roster. Ovechkin was there, and Dynamo legend Maltsev is part of the club.

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08-19-2010, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Anyhow, it's been proven in the past that minor league (we like it or not, KHL is a minor league) cannot compete with establish major league... Not just in hockey, but any sports. KHL is a viable option, but it will never rival the NHL. Money for one is not there. KHL teams will try to match the player salary, sometime they will. But stars like Kovalchuk, Ovechkin can double their salaries with sponsors, which in russia, they cannot do. As much as the occasional russia star (radulov) will go back to his roots (which I totally understand), the NA stars players in their prime will NEVER leave their continenent.
Honestly dude get over yourself. First of all, its not really a minor league if a bunch of teams can play at the NHL level. Before you flip out about that, check SKA and Salavat Yulayev rosters and then get back on that.

Regardless of that, your completely wrong about KHL being able to only temporarily do this. Zine is correct.

Bunch of teams are sponsored by gas companies, and as long as Europeans want heating, they will have money.
There will always be successful companies in Russia, and sponsors can always be found.

Just for the record, Ak-Bars signed something like 11 NHL players during the lockout. Including stars like Lecavalier and Kovalchuk. That was 2004. Its 2010 now and their still holding the gagarin cup. So when exactly are the owners gonna get tired? Other teams like Metallurg have also had steady finance for a decade.

Again as mentioned above some teams are sponsored by their state(province or whatever). Teams like Amur have literally 100% attendance on every game, and their not even a playoff team yet. I doubt their funding will be cut.

That brings me to my main point; all this time the KHL is getting more popular!
This is a fact you cannot dispute with. The attendance for KHL is increasing, and hockey is getting more attention in Russia.
So why would they cut funding!!?!?!? Dont blab about some case scenario, but as the whole.

Not only that, but the junior league had something like a record of 8000 people at a game.

Check the VHL teams and you will find that alot were founded in the 2000's. More and more arenas are being built.


About the overpayment of players: Dont forget that this is only the 3rd year of the KHL and already there are people talking. Overpaying NA players is just the start. Once, enough people have done it, and in a couple of years when NAns are comfortable with the established league, more will be open minded.

Again I agree with Zine that what you think is overpayment is actually not. NHL severely underpays their players especially the average ones. People like Ovechkin and Crosby are worth like 30-40 million a season! They are the franchise. OV is the caps, he got them out of the hole and created the rebirth of washington hockey. Crosby is the same for the pengs, and a Canadian star to boot. All for a measly 9 mil!? Random baseball players get more.

You just have to accept the fact that the KHL is here to stay. It will only get better and stronger as the years go by to become a stable world class league. Nobody is saying better than NHL, but it will definitely give it a run for its money.

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08-20-2010, 08:12 AM
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fact 1: Vyachaslav Fetisov stated that in 5 years the KHL will match the NHL.

http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-05-15/_K...html?fullstory

fact 2: Most russian going back to russia are average player in the NHL or on the fringe or retirement (exemption are Nabokov, Radulov). One last go at decent money. (If the best league in the world would be in Russia, and as a Canadian would be a 3rd liner and there was a decent league in my home country, I would do the same...)

fact 3: There is only one major league. It is the NHL. All other leagues are professional league. KHL team are good, but still cannot beat other minor league team (see Spengler Cup). The only exception to this rule is football in europe.

fact 4: Dont compare baseball salary with hockey salary. The structure is completely different. Most, if not all, players play for 400k-500k for the first 3 years in the MLB. Once you hit arbitration, then you start making decent money. Only at the 5 (for all-star) and 6 years, players are getting millions. Also, most players start in the MLB at age 24 or around. Therefore, they are 28-29 when they start getting paid millions. And baseball is a lot more popular than hockey in NA (except Canada)

fact 5: Would I call the Major League Soccer (MLS, pro football) a "Major League". NO. Football's major league are in europe, whether I like it or not. MLS is like KHL. Wahsed up players (Henry, Beckham) come here for one last go. But its still pro and the best league in the country. Still.... its a minor league.

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08-20-2010, 08:13 AM
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Don't get me wrong... I'm all for the KHL. I have a good buddy that is, as it stand, an AHL level goalie. He went to the KHL for 7 times what he was making last year, which is great for him.

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08-20-2010, 01:58 PM
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I don't get why pople come in here bashing khl, go back to your nhl topics or whatever and jerk off there. Everyone is gonna be happy, and people who like here will have a nice chat about khl

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08-20-2010, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 5: Would I call the Major League Soccer (MLS, pro football) a "Major League". NO. Football's major league are in europe, whether I like it or not. MLS is like KHL. Wahsed up players (Henry, Beckham) come here for one last go. But its still pro and the best league in the country. Still.... its a minor league.
Lol. This comparison has FAIL written all over it when you think that the KHL is the 2nd best league in the world and MLS is maybe the 20th.

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08-20-2010, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 1: Vyachaslav Fetisov stated that in 5 years the KHL will match the NHL.

http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-05-15/_K...html?fullstory
What do you expect Fetisov to say?........he's Chairman of the Board. "Well, uh yeah, our plan is to be the 2nd best league."
Nobody realistically believes KHL, as a league, will rival the NHL. Behind closed doors Fetisov is probably laughing at that statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 2: Most russian going back to russia are average player in the NHL or on the fringe or retirement (exemption are Nabokov, Radulov). One last go at decent money. (If the best league in the world would be in Russia, and as a Canadian would be a 3rd liner and there was a decent league in my home country, I would do the same...)
Who's stating otherwise? So why bring it up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 3: There is only one major league. It is the NHL. All other leagues are professional league. KHL team are good, but still cannot beat other minor league team (see Spengler Cup). The only exception to this rule is football in europe.
If you talk about the exhibition Spenglar Cup then how about the Stanley Cup champs Chicago losing to a Swiss team? Or Florida losing to SM Liiga club?
This proves that the best NHL team can't defeat a 'minor league' team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 5: Would I call the Major League Soccer (MLS, pro football) a "Major League". NO. Football's major league are in europe, whether I like it or not. MLS is like KHL. Wahsed up players (Henry, Beckham) come here for one last go. But its still pro and the best league in the country. Still.... its a minor league.
KHL can't be compared to MLS. It's not even close. KHL is 2nd best league in the world, MLS isn't even on the radar.

And even if we combine the top European football leagues to form one super league (NHL), the MLS/KHL comparison is still waaaay off.
KHL would probably equal Ligue 1 (also a top heavy with lower struggling clubs).

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08-20-2010, 06:29 PM
  #24
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6- you forgot to back up on when the league will not be able to upkeep its finances, and drop down to swiss league standards.

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08-20-2010, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
fact 2: Most russian going back to russia are average player in the NHL or on the fringe or retirement (exemption are Nabokov, Radulov). One last go at decent money. (If the best league in the world would be in Russia, and as a Canadian would be a 3rd liner and there was a decent league in my home country, I would do the same...)
What about Sushinsky, Morozov, Nikulin, Mozyakin and other Russians? How about Harju, Omark, Weinhandl, Marek, Rolinek and other foreigners? If you look at the Russian roster at the World Championships most of the KHL players there are SURELY NHL calibre, the other thing being they don't want to go over the pond for some reason.

Maybe there are no good North Americans in the KHL, but a lot of great Swedes, Czechs and Finns. Many of these are NHL calibre. Maybe some of them don't stay for too long (Harju, Omark), but surely other similar level players come to KHL every year to take their place.

And remember, when someone is "NHL Calibre", being it Russian or foreign player, it doesn't mean they would play first line in the best teams, they might, but not necessarily. NHL Calibre = get at least 4th line at lower calibre NHL teams.

Also if a player has never played in the NHL, or played a little and then returned home, doesn't mean he doesn't have what it takes to compete in the NHL, it's just it might not be the player's style, or some other factor. If a player is not in the spotlight of NA media because he's playing in Europe and consequently you don't have much info about this player doesn't mean he's not a great NHL level player!

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