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Are we turning into the Sabres?

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Old
08-17-2010, 01:19 AM
  #1
La Grosse Tendresse
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Are we turning into the Sabres?

Ever since Gauthier took over and Molson bought the team, most decisions the team makes has one thing in common: They are cheap.

No, things are not as bad as when we couldn't afford to keep Damphousse and Recchi, but keep in mind that the big contracts to Cammalleri, Gomez and Gionta were all moves done by Gainey. Even then, for a team that is 3rd in revenues (according to Forbes), the Habs always refused to spend more than the salary cap by front-loading contracts.

This summer, we've seen most of our depth go away. Unlike Gainey who used to spend (some might argue too much) on bottom-6 players, Gauthier has let them all go. The only established veteran on our bottom six will be Travis Moen, again a Gainey signing. Dominic Moore did a great job in the playoffs, yet he was let go. Instead, we will go with Tom Pyatt, Mathieu Darche, Dustin Boyd, Lars Eller and Maxim Lapierre to round out that bottom-6 to start the season. Hardly menacing. Same thing can be said about not trying to upgrade Kostitsyn or Pouliot as a top-six winger.

It's not as if we don't have any cap room. We have 4.1 million left with only Price to resign. Chances are, he'll be signed for less than that. Yet, the Habs don't see fit to spend this money, despite making it 3 rounds into the playoffs and being #3 in revenues league-wide.

One could also argue that the Halak trade was also made because the team didn't want to spend on two goaltenders. It would not have been impossible to fit both goalies under the cap, yet the Habs made it clear that the Halak trade was a result of having to chose one of two goalies because of financial constraints. Now, what are we doing with the cap space this move saved? Sweet nothing!

The Desjardins trade was apparently done because they wanted to go with Sanford and Mayer in Hamilton. However, one could also argue that this trade gets rid of one contract without taking one back. Thus, instead of having depth, we simply got rid of an AHL salary we had to pay. We currently have 45 NHL contracts, 5 less than the limit of 50. Sure, it might not seem like a big difference to have 5 less AHL salaries to pay, but that money is going directly to Molson's pocket. Moreso, we don't even have an ECHL affiliate for this season, as we would probably have noone to assign there.

Same thing when in June a lot of our scouts and personel were fired. Sure, some were replaced, but not all of them. Again, basic cost cutting. Plus, could the Habs have kept Boucher and Brisebois by offering them more to stay on with the team?

Finally, Molson announced that he would take over as President and that Boivin would be let go. Again, say what you want about Boivin, but Molson has zero experience in such a role and this measure (again) serves to cut a very expensive salary, while giving it to Molson. If Boivin didn't do a good enough job, he could have been replaced by someone else who has been actively involved in the business of hockey, not just by spending his (small) fortune. Instead, he's paying himself a guaranteed salary while owning the team, at the expense of the other (minority) investors.

Why all this cost cutting? Despite being the third most valuable franchise in the NHL, the Canadiens are the 5th most leveraged according to Forbes. This means that the Habs must pay a huge amount in interest to its lenders, something that most other teams don't have to do. Still, Forbes has us at #2 with operating income of 31.3mil for 2008-09. This could only be higher this year considering we made it to the third round of the playoffs and ticket prices never seem to stop rising...

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08-17-2010, 01:23 AM
  #2
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We are spending up to the cap. Again. What more can be done?

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08-17-2010, 01:27 AM
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How could we have kept halak and price? halak is making 3.75...add it to the cap, then find a 3rd line center not on ELC in eller. Don't see how it all works out. It NEEDED to be done.

As for contract cutting, you should always leave spots open incase an undrafted player with potential is available. If so, then they have the room to make a pitch.

Less money now doesn't mean it ends there. X amount of salary cap is multiplied at trade deadline. Thus meaning, rather than adding a 3rd liner now, you can add a legit top 6 forward later.

This may not be as clear cut as I make it out to be, but it's not some random logic by management here. There's obviously monetary gains, but there's also flexibility this way.

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08-17-2010, 01:37 AM
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You're reading too deep.

1) With 4 million left and Price likely needing between 2 and 3, where would you get this magic money to resign Moore and company? Responsible teams don't spend exactly to the cap. By being 1 million under the cap all year, you can add somewhere around 3 million at the deadline. There is no way we can afford Moore and Metro, let alone Halak and Price. The cap is the cap.

2) Molson has plenty of experience if you stop to actually consider what a President does. He's on the board of Molson-Coors and the VP of Marketing for Quebec for that company. The President manages the business affairs (see marketing, among other things) of the company, not the hockey operations.

3) Our 5 less contracts are providing flexibility to the organization and also reflect the fact that we have no ECHL affiliate this year.

4) Really, the Habs traded Desjardins to save $65,000? They spend more than that on skate laces. This is the same team, FYI, that gave Sanford $200,000 to stay in the AHL. Our goalie spending below the NHL will actually increase this year.

5) The scouting department saw plenty of new people come in. New GMs realign resources just because he didn't replace them one for one doesn't mean it was about cutting costs.

6) Front loading seems to be working out so well for New Jersey and all the teams that might get those voided. It's possible Gainey and now Gauthier instead chose to respect the CBA rather than do everything possible to get around it.

Seriously, I think you've got a narrative in your head and are just fitting everything into it. Of all of these complaints, only the scouting could remotely be called cost cutting.

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08-17-2010, 01:40 AM
  #5
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Nah I think This is More Gauthier's Plan:


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08-17-2010, 01:44 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Nah I think This is More Gauthier's Plan:

inb4 subban is the black ranger.

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08-17-2010, 01:45 AM
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Hehe... Subban is the black ranger.

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08-17-2010, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kebekoi View Post
Hehe... Subban is the black ranger.
not sure if that was intentional, if not; lawl.

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08-17-2010, 01:55 AM
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Komarov47
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we are not turning into the Sabres, cuz the sabres can developp their prospects well and succeed in NHL, a thing we can do excepted for Price and Subban.

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08-17-2010, 01:56 AM
  #10
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I don't really understand this thread. How are we cost cutting when we are spending to the max of the cap. You act as though 4.1 million is a lot of room to add a good player. Price will take atleast 2 million. So you have 2.1 million left. It's wise to keep that money open for the trade deadline when you might have other needs. Just because there is Cap room left doesn't mean you have to fill it up.

Most of the scouts were Replaced. As for the trade,They obviously feel Ramo is better than ced in the longterm. I honestly don't know about that one but I doubt its because the Molsons don't want to pay him.

You point out our bottom 6 forwards. They are cheap young talent. Something any successful cap team in the nhl needs. The bottom 6 should not be where you sign sexy names to overpriced contracts. Habs are fine people. If they wanted to dump money they could have traded alot of players. This is just the cap world.


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Old
08-17-2010, 07:27 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Ever since Gauthier took over and Molson bought the team, most decisions the team makes has one thing in common: They are cheap.
That's your conclusion, but I don't think it is warranted by your arguments at all.
Quote:
No, things are not as bad as when we couldn't afford to keep Damphousse and Recchi, but keep in mind that the big contracts to Cammalleri, Gomez and Gionta were all moves done by Gainey. Even then, for a team that is 3rd in revenues (according to Forbes), the Habs always refused to spend more than the salary cap by front-loading contracts.
We haven't signed anyone for an extended period of time for a front-loaded contract to be justified, so we don't know if it's really something the habs simply don't want to do. Plus, we haven't been front-loading contracts under Gainey and Gillett either.
Quote:
This summer, we've seen most of our depth go away. Unlike Gainey who used to spend (some might argue too much) on bottom-6 players, Gauthier has let them all go. The only established veteran on our bottom six will be Travis Moen, again a Gainey signing. Dominic Moore did a great job in the playoffs, yet he was let go. Instead, we will go with Tom Pyatt, Mathieu Darche, Dustin Boyd, Lars Eller and Maxim Lapierre to round out that bottom-6 to start the season. Hardly menacing.
These players won't cost us significantly less than the vets we had in the past. I think what we've been seeing is a change in bottom-6 strategy: Gainey loved to use experimented vets, while Gauthier seems ready to give the chance to younger players with more potential. A guy like Eller will almost certainly have a better career than any of the vets who left. So again, this has nothing to do with cutting costs
Quote:
Same thing can be said about not trying to upgrade Kostitsyn or Pouliot as a top-six winger.
Again, we don't have the cap-space to upgrade these players, so this has nothing to do with cutting costs.
Quote:
It's not as if we don't have any cap room. We have 4.1 million left with only Price to resign. Chances are, he'll be signed for less than that. Yet, the Habs don't see fit to spend this money, despite making it 3 rounds into the playoffs and being #3 in revenues league-wide.
There are many many reasons why management would want to keep some cap room like that. Maybe they are not yet sure how much Price is going to cost them (especially if he signs long-term). Maybe they want to keep a cushion in order to get a good player comes the trading deadline. We wouldn't be the first to do that (and in fact, IIRC, last year was basically one of the first year when we DIDN'T start the season without that kind of cushion).
Quote:
One could also argue that the Halak trade was also made because the team didn't want to spend on two goaltenders. It would not have been impossible to fit both goalies under the cap, yet the Habs made it clear that the Halak trade was a result of having to chose one of two goalies because of financial constraints. Now, what are we doing with the cap space this move saved? Sweet nothing!
Well, giving for how much Halak signed, we couldn't be guaranteed to sign Price if both were still in our system, so no, you're wrong.
Quote:
The Desjardins trade was apparently done because they wanted to go with Sanford and Mayer in Hamilton. However, one could also argue that this trade gets rid of one contract without taking one back. Thus, instead of having depth, we simply got rid of an AHL salary we had to pay. We currently have 45 NHL contracts, 5 less than the limit of 50. Sure, it might not seem like a big difference to have 5 less AHL salaries to pay, but that money is going directly to Molson's pocket. Moreso, we don't even have an ECHL affiliate for this season, as we would probably have noone to assign there.
The Desjardins trade has nothing to do with money, please! He wasn't even earning 100K in the AHL!
Quote:
Same thing when in June a lot of our scouts and personel were fired. Sure, some were replaced, but not all of them. Again, basic cost cutting. Plus, could the Habs have kept Boucher and Brisebois by offering them more to stay on with the team?
Again, you're talking about scouts, not the guys who cost a lot of money to begin with. Plus, the guys we got to replace them were very costly, some were holding higher positions in other teams. And rumors were that Boucher was already earning a NHL-level coaching salary with us.
Quote:
Finally, Molson announced that he would take over as President and that Boivin would be let go. Again, say what you want about Boivin, but Molson has zero experience in such a role and this measure (again) serves to cut a very expensive salary, while giving it to Molson. If Boivin didn't do a good enough job, he could have been replaced by someone else who has been actively involved in the business of hockey, not just by spending his (small) fortune. Instead, he's paying himself a guaranteed salary while owning the team, at the expense of the other (minority) investors.
From the very moment the Molsons bought the team, Boivin was rumored to be heading for the exit. Again, this has nothing to do with money.
Quote:
Why all this cost cutting? Despite being the third most valuable franchise in the NHL, the Canadiens are the 5th most leveraged according to Forbes. This means that the Habs must pay a huge amount in interest to its lenders, something that most other teams don't have to do. Still, Forbes has us at #2 with operating income of 31.3mil for 2008-09. This could only be higher this year considering we made it to the third round of the playoffs and ticket prices never seem to stop rising...
There's no cost-cutting, you are simply over-analysing various moves.

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Old
08-17-2010, 07:33 AM
  #12
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I don't really understand this thread. How are we cost cutting when we are spending to the max of the cap. You act as though 4.1 million is a lot of room to add a good player. Price will take atleast 2 million. So you have 2.1 million left. It's wise to keep that money open for the trade deadline when you might have other needs. Just because there is Cap room left doesn't mean you have to fill it up.

Most of the scouts were Replaced. As for the trade,They obviously feel Ramo is better than ced in the longterm. I honestly don't know about that one but I doubt its because the Molsons don't want to pay him.

You point out our bottom 6 forwards. They are cheap young talent. Something any successful cap team in the nhl needs. The bottom 6 should not be where you sign sexy names to overpriced contracts. Habs are fine people. If they wanted to dump money they could have traded alot of players. This is just the cap world.
Bottom 6 forwards are usually cheap, whether they're young or not. What you need in a cap world is cheap young forwards in your top 6, like Pouliot. If he performs at a 20-30g pace, it's a huge bargain. Same goes for Eller, which isn't likely to happen this following year. Having cheap young forwards in the bottom 6 doesn't do a whole lot for cap savings.

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08-17-2010, 07:38 AM
  #13
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Wtf...we need at least 1M+ of cap space during the season if anything happens. Price will sign at around 2.5-3M which will leave 1.1 to 1.6M for the season. Some people on this board think too much and need to go out more and understand that the Habs are not cheap and are spending to the cap.

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Old
08-17-2010, 07:38 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Ever since Gauthier took over and Molson bought the team, most decisions the team makes has one thing in common: They are cheap....
Well, I actually hope you are RIGHT to the extent that Carey Price will NOT be given a rich contract just yet!!

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08-17-2010, 07:45 AM
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Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
we are not turning into the Sabres, cuz the sabres can developp their prospects well and succeed in NHL, a thing we can do excepted for .... and.....
Fixed.

Price hasn't exactly been a glowing success..

And Subban hasn't even played a season yet.

As for the thread itself... meh. You can find another reason for all the moves in the OP besides cost cutting. If they really wanted to cut cost they'd not spend to the cap. We'll see what we do with the money that gets freed up next summer.


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08-17-2010, 08:18 AM
  #16
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This thread makes little to no sense.

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08-17-2010, 08:25 AM
  #17
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Lol, what could hvae happened instead is cap hell a la Chicago Blackhawks.

Imagine spending to cap and getting a string of injuries?

Can't do anything to get out of that.

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08-17-2010, 08:30 AM
  #18
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Gauthier said that for a team to succeed, it needed to have cheap bottom line players ala Chicago...it's true when you pay big bucks for your top line and your defense...

As for Halak + Price...not really complicated :

Halak - 3.75
Price - 2.5

total - 6.25

minus Auld's salary

Real total - 5.25 (more than our actual cap hit...)

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08-17-2010, 09:05 AM
  #19
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they still need to pay carbo....

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Old
08-17-2010, 10:15 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
This thread makes little to no sense.
I find it rather amusing, more than anything.

One thing though: we could have signed Moore to the deal he signed with the Bolts, but we'd be strapped for cap space (assuming Price gets 2.5-3 and we have 4.6 left, that would mean about 600k-1 million of free space after giving Moore 1 million).

It's doable, and I'm also unhappy to see the guy go, but it had to be done, considering we've got Boyd, Lapps, White, etc clogging up the bottom 6 too.

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08-17-2010, 10:19 AM
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You have to graduate some players from the AHL to the NHL at some point and some of these players have been NHL ready for a while now and some have gotten a taste of playing with big boys at some point or another.

All management did is make room for them and kept a VET presence to help with their development and adjustment which also happened to keep us under the cap with some money left over after Price is signed for emergencies or a rental come playoffs time.

Had we not had big contracts like Hammer, Gomez, Cammy, Spacek and Gionta (all slightly overpaid we might have been able to keep someone like Moore or Halak, but as the situation in Montreal (taxes, media frenzy, bi-polar fans) usually requires that we overpay to get players to come here.

I don't see how they could have done anything differently to be honest, nor do I see a reason why they should have.

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08-17-2010, 10:22 AM
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It's been awhile since we've had a stacked team. We tend to glorify bottom line players because their style of play gives us the perception they care more than anyone on the ice. Gauthier is trying to get our bottom six back in check with regards to salary.

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08-17-2010, 10:27 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I find it rather amusing, more than anything.

One thing though: we could have signed Moore to the deal he signed with the Bolts, but we'd be strapped for cap space (assuming Price gets 2.5-3 and we have 4.6 left, that would mean about 600k-1 million of free space after giving Moore 1 million).

It's doable, and I'm also unhappy to see the guy go, but it had to be done, considering we've got Boyd, Lapps, White, etc clogging up the bottom 6 too.
No room for moore really... I mean if we keep filling out all our roster spots with vets, when do our prospects get to prove themselves?

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08-17-2010, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
No room for moore really... I mean if we keep filling out all our roster spots with vets, when do our prospects get to prove themselves?
When they graduate college.

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08-17-2010, 10:39 AM
  #25
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No room for moore really... I mean if we keep filling out all our roster spots with vets, when do our prospects get to prove themselves?
Definitely, although Moore cost less than most of us thought he was going to get (1.5-2 million).

I'm excited at the thought of Ryan White and Dustin Boyd blossoming in our bottom 6.

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