HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

How do you qualify the Montreal Canadiens summer moves so far?

View Poll Results: How do you qualify the Montreal Canadiens summer moves so far?
Great 24 11.48%
Average 125 59.81%
Bad 49 23.44%
No opinion 11 5.26%
Voters: 209. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-17-2010, 03:27 PM
  #51
swimmer77
What's an ROW?
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,372
vCash: 500
I voted great but would have voted good. Since that option didn't exist I voted great because I think the moves are closer to being great than average. LOL

My biggest concern is the goaltending but I understand the move (I think) and why it had to be made. I'm happy with the return the Habs got for Halak.

Sergei Kostitsyn had to go I suppose and I'm content with that trade as well. The return exceeded my expectations just as the Halak trade.

Letting Metropolit, Moore, Mara, MAB walk is something I have no qualms about and I'm assuming they were let go for other reasons other than all of their names starting with the letter M.

Pleks' contract is a huge plus as I do think he is a talent and could have gotten more dollars as a UFA. I'm not disappointed with any of the contracts handed out to date.

The guys (Hamrlik, Kostitsyn, Spacek) the majority of the fanbase seemingly would like to be traded are still here. I have nothing against any of them and am glad they are still here each for a different reason. Hamrlik is still a very effective NHL d-man but needs his minutes in the 20 - 22 range IMO to be most effective without getting and/or losing focus. I'm hoping Spacek contributes more offensively this year and I like his work ethic as well as Hamrlik's. I would just love to see Kostitsyn put his critics to rest and show some consistency. And I need some more time to figure out if he's lazy or just loses complete confidence. But I do like his skillset.

Overall it appears there is a plan in place to get a better mixture of youth and experience. I look at Eller as the possible replacement of Gomez down the road when that contract becomes more "salary friendly" to a team with less salary cap concerns.

Last year a good chunk of the roster was revamped so I wasn't expecting too much this year and am pleasantly surprised at what's transpired so far. Next year the D will be revamped and that will be interesting too.

swimmer77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 03:47 PM
  #52
Vasculio
Booya !
 
Vasculio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: La Tuque
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 500
I can't have a real opinion until I see 10-15 games into the season, I would have liked a bit more sandpaper on the bottom lines (Armstrong, Torres, Asham would have been nice...) but I still like the team as is. Anyway, too soon...

Vasculio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 03:56 PM
  #53
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu View Post
I can't have a real opinion until I see 10-15 games into the season, I would have liked a bit more sandpaper on the bottom lines (Armstrong, Torres, Asham would have been nice...) but I still like the team as is. Anyway, too soon...
gotta agree with you. I really wanted asham. Would have rathered white as 13th forward than darche and having asham slotted into the 4th line.

overlords is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:01 PM
  #54
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
gotta agree with you. I really wanted asham. Would have rathered white as 13th forward than darche and having asham slotted into the 4th line.
Why do people hate on darche so much ?

He got 10 pts including 5 goals in 29 games...with crap ice time and 3rd, 4th liners. He's a fairly big guy at 6'1 210. He has good instincts and doesn't hurt us defensively. He makes the minimum.

He's the perfect 13th-14th forward with a chance at being better than a lot of other guys.

I bet you're a fan of Moen who has 19 pts in 81 games. Not like he was a monster defensively or anything exceptional physically either...

If anything, Darche >>>> Moen in terms of bangs for your bucks.

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:06 PM
  #55
Richiebottles
Big Mike !
 
Richiebottles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,590
vCash: 500
Asham would of added some nice gritt to the bottom 6 for under 800 k a year . If PG Keeps on trading away are assets he should be shown the door .

Richiebottles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:11 PM
  #56
AcadiaAxeMan
Registered User
 
AcadiaAxeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to AcadiaAxeMan Send a message via Yahoo to AcadiaAxeMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
What??? Are we talking about the same Dustin Boyd? The guy who haven't even received a qualifying offer from Nashville? I like him as a depth player and as a 4th line guy with interesting tools, but a future top 6 player??? No way!
Well last year's THN Yearbook had the Flames DUSTIN BOYD as a BREAKTHROUGH candidate for last year ...... he can't have fallen that sharply??!!

AcadiaAxeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:12 PM
  #57
JayBee*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,652
vCash: 500
below average. None of the needs were addressed. And on top of that, the starting goalie was traded away.

You'd think the Price signing would be a slam dunk by now since they traded Halak how long ago?

JayBee* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:14 PM
  #58
AcadiaAxeMan
Registered User
 
AcadiaAxeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to AcadiaAxeMan Send a message via Yahoo to AcadiaAxeMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu View Post
I can't have a real opinion until I see 10-15 games into the season, I would have liked a bit more sandpaper on the bottom lines (Armstrong, Torres, Asham would have been nice...) but I still like the team as is. Anyway, too soon...
would love Torres/Asham as 4th liners - Darche must be able to be sent down (and recalled without waivers?)

AcadiaAxeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:15 PM
  #59
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
What??? Are we talking about the same Dustin Boyd? The guy who haven't even received a qualifying offer from Nashville? I like him as a depth player and as a 4th line guy with interesting tools, but a future top 6 player??? No way!
He wasn't qualified because he would have been given more than he is making now and would have been a 1 way contract. He was projected to be a very good player, didn't get there, but he managed to change his game from a goal scorer to a reliable two-way player, which should say something.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:18 PM
  #60
scottyG
Registered User
 
scottyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal,Qc
Posts: 4,970
vCash: 500
Are some of you really serious when you think we will lose Price

Where the hell do you think he's going to go...

scottyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:19 PM
  #61
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Average was incomplete. He just didn't do a whole lot that let me see how good of a GM he is.

Trading Halak was gutsy, I'll give him that, and ultimately correct IMHO, but ultimately he had to make a deal and couldn't go completely wrong with either guy. The return is about right. I am glad that he's keeping to the existing philosophy of cheap goaltending though. It's just not somewhere where it's wise to overspend.

He didn't change his coaching staff, but in his situation he was pretty much stuck. Letting Boucher go was pretty awful for the long term of the team but there again his hands were mostly tied.

Trading Sergei K for a UFA grinder and a UFA goalie the Habs couldn't afford was, from a hockey standpoint, a stupid mistake. I recognize there may have been personality issues, but they really have to learn to work through those rather than ship away all their young talent because they can't handle them properly.

On the other hand, signing Plekanec was a must and the money was bang-on. Then again, though, it wasn't a hard decision, just something that needed to be done.

Pouliot is overpaid and I'm worried that the organization might genuinely believe that he's able to fill a top-6 role on a regular basis, but it's not like they have the money to hire someone proven.

Otherwise, minor moves and the pre-announced departure of Laraque. Meh.

So the Habs kind of stay in this lukewarm stage, almost certainly somewhat weaker than last year's lackluster team, and with that hole in the top 6 still outlying. But then again it looks like it's going to be a transition year where the org doesn't really hope to accomplish too much, though they'll obviously claim otherwise.

Gauthier hasn't taken any major risks or shown any great creativity (and no, going with Price instead of Halak is not a "major risk"). I think he'll basically give a bunch of kids some experience, ride out the last year of Hamrlik's and Gill's contracts, and get themselves some dough to work with next year.

Before I really grade him, I want to give Gauthier enough time to do something creative, or prove that he can't.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 04:34 PM
  #62
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan View Post
Well last year's THN Yearbook had the Flames DUSTIN BOYD as a BREAKTHROUGH candidate for last year ...... he can't have fallen that sharply??!!
Apparently, yes. And we are talking about a team (Calgary) that has trouble drafting good players, so Boyd was probably overrated due to the fact that he was one of the few youngsters.

Since that, he got traded for a 4th round pick to Nashville. And here's what David Poile had to say about him at the end of the season :

Quote:
"To me, it’s a little bit of a factor to who we have signed, what positions we have, what other guys we have in the organization,’’ Poile said. "So if I have a position for him, we’ll be qualifying him. If I don’t, we won’t.’’
And he finally never got a qualifying offer from Nashville, something we see very rarely for a guy of his age. He got bumped by players like Marcel Goc, Jerred Smithson, Cal O'Reilly and Nick Spalling. And some of you think he can become a top 6 forward??


Last edited by DDs not undersized: 08-17-2010 at 05:16 PM.
DDs not undersized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 05:32 PM
  #63
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Why do people hate on darche so much ?

He got 10 pts including 5 goals in 29 games...with crap ice time and 3rd, 4th liners. He's a fairly big guy at 6'1 210. He has good instincts and doesn't hurt us defensively. He makes the minimum.

He's the perfect 13th-14th forward with a chance at being better than a lot of other guys.

I bet you're a fan of Moen who has 19 pts in 81 games. Not like he was a monster defensively or anything exceptional physically either...

If anything, Darche >>>> Moen in terms of bangs for your bucks.
I also have no idea why people dislike Darche. All i remember from that guy was the fact that he gave his all every night and had absolutely zero ego. I'm really glad he's still a part of our team.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 05:46 PM
  #64
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Before I really grade him, I want to give Gauthier enough time to do something creative, or prove that he can't.
For me, Gauthier is going to prove his worth next summer.

That's when guys like Chara might become available, and there are some other decent names out there.

We'll have plenty of cap room to make something happen including raises.

So that's where he'll have an opportunity to really put his stamp on the team and show what he can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I also have no idea why people dislike Darche. All i remember from that guy was the fact that he gave his all every night and had absolutely zero ego. I'm really glad he's still a part of our team.
I just don't know. Reading the thread when Darche got signed, I thought we had re-signed Bergeron at 2M/season for 5 years and I keep reading posts about how he is a waste of cap room. I just don't get it. At worse he's the perfect 13th forward.

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 05:47 PM
  #65
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Apparently, yes. And we are talking about a team (Calgary) that has trouble drafting good players, so Boyd was probably overrated due to the fact that he was one of the few youngsters.

Since that, he got traded for a 4th round pick to Nashville. And here's what David Poile had to say about him at the end of the season :


And he finally never got a qualifying offer from Nashville, something we see very rarely for a guy of his age. He got bumped by players like Marcel Goc, Jerred Smithson, Cal O'Reilly and Nick Spalling. And some of you think he can become a top 6 forward??
I think this is more of a case of a guy having an off year in his development than anything else. And sometimes you can easily lose your confidence when you don't have a defined role on the team.
Bottom line is that he's cheap, young, and won't have a lot of pressure on him to put up lots of points. Remember, Nashville and Calgary are two teams that don't exactly have great top 6's. For Boyd to see time on this top 6, our star players will have to severely under perform or get injured. So as long as he skates and forechecks hard, and chips in the odd goal, it will pretty tough for him to fail.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 05:53 PM
  #66
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I think this is more of a case of a guy having an off year in his development than anything else. And sometimes you can easily lose your confidence when you don't have a defined role on the team.
Bottom line is that he's cheap, young, and won't have a lot of pressure on him to put up lots of points. Remember, Nashville and Calgary are two teams that don't exactly have great top 6's. For Boyd to see time on this top 6, our star players will have to severely under perform or get injured. So as long as he skates and forechecks hard, and chips in the odd goal, it will pretty tough for him to fail.
I agree. I like Boyd as a 3rd/4th liner. But I think some people are overrating him if they think he's more than that at this point in time.

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:01 PM
  #67
Little Nilan
Registered User
 
Little Nilan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Praha
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 8,209
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Little Nilan
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
We basically traded our MVP for a rookie and replaced a few average 3rd/4th liners with other unremarkable 3rd/4th liners. I fail to see how that can be construed as a good day's work. It's not terrible either, but to think it's anything but average is seeing things with rose-colored goggles.
Weren't you for trading Theodore after 2001-2002? Maybe it was after 03-04 though, but I remember someone mentioning you were for trading him after his big season. It would make this post strange.

Little Nilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:03 PM
  #68
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I agree. I like Boyd as a 3rd/4th liner. But I think some people are overrating him if they think he's more than that at this point in time.
Yeah i think people always get a little over exciting when we get anyone via trade or free agency. It's either: "Look how horrible he is, that's obviously why they wanted to get rid of him", or, "Remember that one awesome year he had? Maybe he'll duplicate it with us!" Basically we got Boyd to replace Sergei, who always should have been slated as a 3rd/4th forward, but constantly complained about his ice time. All Boyd has to do to be an upgrade is to play like Tom Pyatt. If he can do that, we have another speedy and feisty bottom 6 player. The fact that he has offensive upside than Pyatt is simply a bonus. My only fear with Boyd is that he won't buy into Martin's system. I think though that because many roster players now have 1 year of the system under their belt, they'll make life easier for Boyd and Eller to fit in.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:06 PM
  #69
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Weren't you for trading Theodore after 2001-2002? Maybe it was after 03-04 though, but I remember someone mentioning you were for trading him after his big season. It would make this post strange.
How would it ? Wouldn't it actually make me a genius ?

But no. I wasn't for trading theodore after his 01-02 season. I started having huge doubts after 02-03, and was convinced he wasn't worth anywhere what he was making in 03-04 (even though that was his 2nd best season). Everyone still thought he was god's gift to goaltending back then. Also, back then, we were working on a budget even if there wasn't a salary cap. Just so everyone understands where I was coming from. I can't believe I've been posting on these boards since 02 (under another name in 02, Habsolution).

It's fine, I'm used to go against the general consensus.

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:09 PM
  #70
InglewoodJack
Registered User
 
InglewoodJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Châteauguay
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,883
vCash: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Are some of you really serious when you think we will lose Price

Where the hell do you think he's going to go...
Haven't heard from you since your boy won his job back

But seriously, you have to sorta be concerned why Pricey isn't signed this late into the offseason.

InglewoodJack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:12 PM
  #71
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged Member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,699
vCash: 500
Until we sign Price and trade/waive/dump/euthanize Hamrlik (and sign Mitchell/trade for Bieksa) this off-season isn't over.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2010, 06:20 PM
  #72
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,027
vCash: 500
I voted average, but that's with the (very large) asterix that i believe Gauthier's hands were severely tied due to the poor state of the roster (in terms of talent vs locked-in salary).

he didn't have much room to work with, so while it seems pretty clear that he did not improve the roster, he did a very average job of keeping the status quo.

Halak is the big move, and could certainly come back to haunt the team, but again, he didn't have much choice (funny how some people refused to believe that the habs would have little choice but to move one of their goalies... it seemed so obvious), and frankly I think that he got a pretty solid return considering the goalie market.


but man oh man, even though he was operating with much more overall cap space (which doesn't reflect what the internal cap is), Yzerman is imo an example of a GM that did an EXCELLENT job of upgrading his roster and managing his assets.

whereas, even if his hands were tied, Gauthier hasn't done much/anything to make you stop and say "GREAT JOB"

and it continues... signing Bergenheim is a great depth move, and it remains to be seen what the exact terms are, but I'd have taken him over Boyd (and i do know Boyd quite well having followed him in Calgary), and even then, looking at our roster today, I don't see why we weren't front and centre with a >1M$ offer for him.

Bergenheim- Eller- Boyd
Moen- Lapierre- Pyatt

I'd have been pretty happy with that bottom six...

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2010, 08:29 AM
  #73
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
So the Habs kind of stay in this lukewarm stage, almost certainly somewhat weaker than last year's lackluster team, and with that hole in the top 6 still outlying. But then again it looks like it's going to be a transition year where the org doesn't really hope to accomplish too much, though they'll obviously claim otherwise.

Gauthier hasn't taken any major risks or shown any great creativity (and no, going with Price instead of Halak is not a "major risk"). I think he'll basically give a bunch of kids some experience, ride out the last year of Hamrlik's and Gill's contracts, and get themselves some dough to work with next year.

Before I really grade him, I want to give Gauthier enough time to do something creative, or prove that he can't.
This made me LOL...make up your mind

I can understand why you see it this way, but I don't think you're factoring in a few things.

Mainly that this team grew in the playoffs. They grew together and they played hard for each other. I think the core of the team is actually really strong and they'll carry us.

Losing Halak is a big loss, but I also think that the team finally 'bought in' to the defensive system. Price will be insulated well, and if Eller can add an offensive element outside of our top 6, then look out.

I know you don't like JM (I usually follow your posts because I find your arguments interesting), but I think that the players responded well to him. I think we were outcoached vs Philly in the playoffs though...no doubt about that. We'll see if we can take the next step together. I'm getting good vibes from that room though...


Last edited by Capitano: 08-18-2010 at 08:34 AM.
Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2010, 10:14 AM
  #74
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
This made me LOL...make up your mind
It's hard to predict guys like Eller and Subban. Just not enough data. That's why I'm waffling about whether the roster is actually stronger or not. I'm pretty sure Moore last year was better than Eller next year, and while Subban is very promising he's still a rookie. Hard to predict. Most likely the result is a bit weaker overall, but it might end up equal. Maybe, if we're very very lucky, a bit stronger. Not enough to make much of a difference.

Goaltending's definitely weaker though, even if I don't think Halak was going to repeat his miracle and I think Price-Auld is a fine tandem, it just ain't Halak-Price. And since goaltending basically kept the team out of the lottery, that is a concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Mainly that this team grew in the playoffs.
If they actually got better, there was precious little evidence of it. Seriously, it looked worse in spots, because they got constantly dominated. They played as poorly in the playoffs as they did in the regular season, and got carried by goaltending just like the regular season.

If they play the regular season like they did in the playoffs... we're in for a long season. Well, actually, a short one. But it'll feel long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Losing Halak is a big loss, but I also think that the team finally 'bought in' to the defensive system.
The "defensive" system that had the team routinely give up 20+ scoring chances and 35+ shots? I dunno if they bought in it or not, but it doesn't seem to be working too well at creating actual defense.

Well, let me amend that, I think they were pretty good at defending, they just did such a ridiculous amount of it that in the end it really didn't matter and they needed superhuman goaltending to save their ***** regardless. So the effectiveness of the Habs' "defensive system" is extremely debatable. The team buying into it is a waste if that's the result it engenders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
We'll see if we can take the next step together. I'm getting good vibes from that room though...
Good vibes and bad hockey. It makes for a very likable team, and I do like these guys, but I don't think it will win too much unless something changes.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2010, 11:26 AM
  #75
scottyG
Registered User
 
scottyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal,Qc
Posts: 4,970
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post

The "defensive" system that had the team routinely give up 20+ scoring chances and 35+ shots? I dunno if they bought in it or not, but it doesn't seem to be working too well at creating actual defense.
Well, let me amend that, I think they were pretty good at defending, they just did such a ridiculous amount of it that in the end it really didn't matter and they needed superhuman goaltending to save their ***** regardless. So the effectiveness of the Habs' "defensive system" is extremely debatable. The team buying into it is a waste if that's the result it engenders.

.
Lol 20+ scoring chances is when an AHL team plays an NHL team. Halak had to usually make 5-6-7 big saves in the PO. Save game 6 vs WSH Halak never got bombarded with many LEGIT scoring chances. Don't forget Montreal blocked 400+ shots in the PO

scottyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.