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Will JVR Ever Match or Surpass Kane?

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08-11-2010, 06:00 PM
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JABEE
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Will JVR Ever Match or Surpass Kane?

While reading the Eric Lindros thread I was think, will JVR ever be a franchise player like Kane, Crosby, Malkin, or any recent top picks. There have been plenty of these players who have made great impacts with their first seasons. JVR has been a bit of a let down in terms of star power. Will JVR ever be a superstar in this league? Has his college career hurt his development? Will he ever be anywhere close to Kane? What would the Flyers team look like with Kane instead of James VanRiemsdyk? I see potential in JVR but he seems to have disappeared last year. Is there really that much expectations or pressure on him to be a star or is his ceiling 60 points and never a dominant player?

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08-11-2010, 06:02 PM
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I have a very good feeling about JvR. IMO he's shown some flashes and I really think the kid is going to be big. As far as being better than Kane... I'll actually say yes to that too. It's a long shot, but if you're asking it's possibility, I say it exists.

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08-11-2010, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
While reading the Eric Lindros thread I was think, will JVR ever be a franchise player like Kane, Crosby, Malkin, or any recent top picks. There have been plenty of these players who have made great impacts with their first seasons. JVR has been a bit of a let down in terms of star power. Will JVR ever be a superstar in this league? Has his college career hurt his development? Will he ever be anywhere close to Kane? What would the Flyers team look like with Kane instead of James VanRiemsdyk? I see potential in JVR but he seems to have disappeared last year. Is there really that much expectations or pressure on him to be a star or is his ceiling 60 points and never a dominant player?
As has been said many times about budding power forwards, they need to grow into their bodies. JvR was a boy among men this year. He was used to playing only 35 or so games due to the college schedule.

He will still need two to three more years before he comes into his own. I think the metric most people use is being about 26 about coming into your own for the larger boys. The kid already has the skills, he just needs the physical work and a killer instict. Due diligence on the part of Lavi and the training staff can help that kid out.

When he comes into camp, expect him to have put on muscle and look more filled out.

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08-11-2010, 06:06 PM
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I honestly don't care how he pans out relative to Kane. If Kane turns into a 110 pt player, and JVR is only a 90 point guy, I'd be ****ing psyched about that.

I think he has a good chance to turn into a big time player, whether or not he surpasses Kane, who knows.

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08-11-2010, 06:36 PM
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Potential to surpass Ryan? Probably.

Kane? Probably not in the way you're thinking. Kane is going to be one of the game's best offensive weapons for a long time.

JVR is different and better in other ways though Kane has that pure offensive skill-set.

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08-11-2010, 06:39 PM
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I think Reemer will top out around ehhh 70-90 point area, consistently. He had a PointPerGame or close to a PPG through like 20-25 games played last season.. Remember, he didnt get alot of PP team or even ice time in the 3rd period... What i like to think about James is certain games, remember the last Montreal home game of the regular season in April? He had so many chances, and really stepped up for the Flyers (even though they lost 1-0). Hopefully he gets 1st line minutes with Richie and .... Giroux? No doubt he gets 40-50 points this year

Maybe JvR turns into Getzlaf! You never know?

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08-11-2010, 06:40 PM
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If they drafted Kane i bet they dont sign Briere. That draft had a trickle down effect imo. Such a disgrace they didnt get that ping pong ball. I dont think JVR will have an impact in a flyers uniform sadly. I have no doubt in my mind he gets moved within the next year and a half by Shooter.

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08-11-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Potential to surpass Ryan? Probably.

Kane? Probably not in the way you're thinking. Kane is going to be one of the game's best offensive weapons for a long time.

JVR is different and better in other ways though Kane has that pure offensive skill-set.
When Im thinking about an impact player I mean someone who can control the game. A big play guy, someone who can take over a game and is a main focus for teams trying to defend him. At the moment he seems to be an afterthought. I just wonder if he'll ever be the star like other top 3 picks.

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08-11-2010, 06:59 PM
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All I'm looking for out of JVR this year is improved consistency, I think his 3rd year will be a make or break year for him.

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08-11-2010, 06:59 PM
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I think Kane is more skilled offensively, but JvR has teh better physical tools. If 2-3 years, he could easily be better then him if he progresses and avoid those long droughts.

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08-11-2010, 06:59 PM
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Not a chance

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08-11-2010, 07:10 PM
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Well if anyone thinks JVR will be a bust they're dreamin. JVR had more goals than Richards did his rookie season. And remember Richards' rookie season was 05-06 where everybodys point totals were high. So I don't know if he'll ever be like Kane but if he turns into a 6'3 Mike Richards Ill be happy.

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08-11-2010, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
If they drafted Kane i bet they dont sign Briere. That draft had a trickle down effect imo. Such a disgrace they didnt get that ping pong ball. I dont think JVR will have an impact in a flyers uniform sadly. I have no doubt in my mind he gets moved within the next year and a half by Shooter.
Why? Its not like our team is loaded with top talent at left wing. There is Hartnell, Carcillo, Powe and Shelley. JVR will get the playing time to be able to have a huge impact this season and beyond.

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08-11-2010, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Why? Its not like our team is loaded with top talent at left wing. There is Hartnell, Carcillo, Powe and Shelley. JVR will get the playing time to be able to have a huge impact this season and beyond.
This is my fear: I don't JvR is a solid enough defender to warrant big time minutes yet. I hope something has changed in the off-season with his conditioning, but the playoffs did not leave me optimistic.

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08-11-2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
This is my fear: I don't JvR is a solid enough defender to warrant big time minutes yet. I hope something has changed in the off-season with his conditioning, but the playoffs did not leave me optimistic.
His defense is lacking big time, but he is young and now has at least one season/playoffs under his belt to learn from. I have high hopes for him coming into this season with the opportunity being there for him to get top minutes.

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08-11-2010, 07:36 PM
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08-11-2010, 07:38 PM
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Depends on how much he wants it.

I mean, Jester in particular has commented numerous times on how thin JVR is in person and there's no doubt he hit a serious wall in the 2nd half. One interesting thing I noticed is that when he had 2 or more days of rest, he played 18 games and had 8 goals, 7 assists for 15 points and a +5 rating.

On 1 day or less, he played 58 games and had 19 points with a -6 rating (I know that only totals to 34, they missed a point somewhere in the splits).

So, if he gets in the weight room and builds up that necessary strength and stamina, I think he'll be a monster. We saw a lot of flashes from him this year, shifts, periods, or games where he'd just dominate and you don't dominate in this league unless you are really freaking skilled.

But you gotta put the time in during the offseason. I think he'll do it and I'm sure Lavi will keep a close eye on him, he has the skills, but in the end, it's up to him.

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08-11-2010, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Why? Its not like our team is loaded with top talent at left wing. There is Hartnell, Carcillo, Powe and Shelley. JVR will get the playing time to be able to have a huge impact this season and beyond.
why? because the GM is a clown. This orginization has little patience when it comes to players. This is his 1st year so to speak imo. Having stevens didnt help him at all imo. Once he knows what the coach wants from him, by now i am sure he does, he will be fine. I also dotn think he is that bad defensively at all.They need to find the right linemates for him. JVR needs to decide what type of game he wants to play. I dotn ever see him being this power forward that many think he will be, he is too timid and that is something i dotn think you can teach. That has to come from within.

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08-11-2010, 07:42 PM
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Will he ever be better than Kane? I doubt it. There was a reason he was selected #1 overall. I just want to see a marked improvement in his overall play. I really hope this kid has been hitting the gym. As big as he is there were far too many times he was knocked off the puck by players smaller than himself. Also I would like to see more consistency to his game. I have always been bugged by guys who do not bust it every shift. I hope it is just a learning curve. Come on JVR the next two years should show us what you got and we need ya

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08-11-2010, 07:42 PM
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When Im thinking about an impact player I mean someone who can control the game. A big play guy, someone who can take over a game and is a main focus for teams trying to defend him. At the moment he seems to be an afterthought. I just wonder if he'll ever be the star like other top 3 picks.
If you're thinking of Richards or Nash, no JVR will never be that type of player. Those are who I think of when I think "big impact;" players that will dominate you at everything and anything while beating you mercilessly until you give.

When I think of an impact player who will be the main focus of other people trying to defend against him, I think Giroux; a dynamic monster who can make anything and everything happen in the offensive zone, like stuff you'd never expect.

When I think JVR; I think a little bit of both but not all of either.

That's not to say that other teams won't need to key on him. He'll be dominant enough to earn tons of respect from opposing defenses.

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08-11-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Depends on how much he wants it.

I mean, Jester in particular has commented numerous times on how thin JVR is in person and there's no doubt he hit a serious wall in the 2nd half. One interesting thing I noticed is that when he had 2 or more days of rest, he played 18 games and had 8 goals, 7 assists for 15 points and a +5 rating.

On 1 day or less, he played 58 games and had 19 points with a -6 rating (I know that only totals to 34, they missed a point somewhere in the splits).

So, if he gets in the weight room and builds up that necessary strength and stamina, I think he'll be a monster. We saw a lot of flashes from him this year, shifts, periods, or games where he'd just dominate and you don't dominate in this league unless you are really freaking skilled.

But you gotta put the time in during the offseason. I think he'll do it and I'm sure Lavi will keep a close eye on him, he has the skills, but in the end, it's up to him.
This.

A little more comment about his conditioning/preparation for the NHL:

You have to remember that this kid was lights out for like 20-25 NHL games. He's only 20.

That said, he averaged something like 33 games a college season. I think he played something like 99 games this year? This year was three full season jam-packed into one for him.

I enjoy the college game in and of itself, but I've never been a fan of NCAA as a developmental path. This is one of the reasons why.

We know JVR is a bigger body and will take more time to fill out and develop (see Bobby Ryan), so let's be patient. We don't have to rush anything, and remember that he is ahead of schedule right now.

As far as the conditioning is concerned, I don't think he had a conditioning problem. He just clearly wasn't ready for the onslaught of three full seasons. Juniors does a wonderful job at preparing players mentally and physically for the length of a drawn out season. The NCAA will only prepare you for smarter, tougher, and bigger competition. JVR has plenty of brains, plenty of toughness, and plenty of size. He needs to work on the rest of it, and the skill will fall into place.

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08-11-2010, 07:50 PM
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If you drink enough, sure
Let's not act like Patrick Kane is the Sidney Crosby to JVR's Scott Hartnell.

Both have a ton of skill. While Kane certainly has more skill, the trade off isn't as much as you think. JVR is up there skill-wise when compared to his peers even if Kane is slightly more gifted.

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08-11-2010, 08:02 PM
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No. But that doesn't mean JVR won't become a good player in this league. I just don't expect him to develop into a bona fide star like Kane.

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08-11-2010, 08:03 PM
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I think it all depends on JVR.

He's got the skill-set. He just needs to build his body in the right way, put in the hours, the stamina will come. It depends on him doing the right things and having the heart to do it.

Could he surpass Kane? Sure, but it isn't likely, if Kane puts in as much effort as JVR does. Kane has better raw offensive talent, but he could wear down, get injured, not train as hard as JVR, so in theory, yes, JVR could pass him up, but all other things being equal, Kane is the more desirable player, unless your team has snipers, but needs power up front that still has a scoring touch, then you'd want a developed JVR.

I'll just be happy if he taps his potential and makes himself a force.

And if I can ever get over screaming at my TV that the r$#%!#$^# lottery ball cost us the Cup, that would be nice. He could score the game winner in a Stanley Cup playoff series for the Flyers.

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08-11-2010, 08:25 PM
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JABEE
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When JVR was drafted was he considered a bonafide star or just a really good prospect? Why are expectations for JVR lower than other top 3 picks who played the year they were drafted? Is it just his size?

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