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Are we a better team then last year on paper?

View Poll Results: Are we better on paper then last year?
Yes. We've improved. 80 47.62%
No. We've regressed. 36 21.43%
I'd say we're on par with last year. 52 30.95%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:11 PM
  #1
Garbage Goal
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Are we a better team then last year on paper?

I'd honestly say that we're a considerably worse team on paper then last year. We might end up having a better regular season since just about everything that could possibly go wrong last season (Hartnell having a down year, nearly everyone else having a down year, Emery having a career-ending injury, etc.) went wrong. On paper though, I believe we're considerably worse though even despite the fact that it might not show in the regular season standings.

Outside of everywhere besides our 3rd pairing we're worse. We made a considerable downgrade from Gagne to Zherdev. Gagne is good for 70 points and 30 to 35 goals typically along with great two-way play. Zherdev is known for being lazy and uninspired which, supposedly, shows in his lack of back-checking. I also think it's pretty fair to say that, realistically, it's only fair to expect 60 to 65 points and 25 to 30 goals from Zherdev which is slightly worse then Gagne. Gagne can also PK while Zherdev cannot.

We also downgraded from Asham to Shelley. Asham is an exceptional 4th/3rd liner with the ability to sub-in on to a scoring line. He can fight, chip in some secondary scoring, and he's not a liability on the ice. Shelley hasn't been able to competently handle regular, constant minutes in a lineup and the only thing he brings to the table is the ability to fight. That's it.

In goal, although we have two of the same goalies we had last year, we are worse. Last year, during the regular season and post-season, the goaltending responsibilities were done by committee. Emery, Boucher, and Leighton all split the regular season while Boucher and Leighton split the post-season.

If Holmgren and Laviolette actually intend to play Leighton as a full-time starter then that's a massive difference in terms of his work-load from last year. Leighton has never been a starter in his NHL career and has had difficulty even maintaining a spot on an NHL roster. Dumping all this responsibility on an unproven goalie (that some would argue is a scrub) is just asking for disaster. What's our backup plan if Leighton, hypothetically, has a career-ending bone disease like Emery did last year? Boucher? That obviously didn't work last year. Backlund? He hasn't even played a full NHL game yet.

The only area where we've improved is on defense. It's a considerable upgrade, granted, but most teams would never be wanting to spend the amount of money on their defense that we currently are. I don't want to be either.

What do you guys and gals think?


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 08-06-2010 at 10:55 PM.
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Old
08-06-2010, 09:25 PM
  #2
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I said on par. I see your points with saying we're worse but taking into consideration how awful most of our offense was during the regular season last year, i'd say that if guys like Hartnell, Carter, Giroux, Powe, etc., etc. go back to what their capable of under a whole year of Lavvy's system, it would make up for the loss of Gagne and Asham.

And like you said, our defense is clearly better. Goaltending ON PAPER is better than last year when you factor in leighton's numbers into a whole year of being our starter. We all know what the reality of that situation is but thats why I emphasized ON PAPER.

I think it all kind of evens out.

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:39 PM
  #3
Beef Invictus
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on par. goaltending hasn't improved, and another offensive slump could be awful. we've dropped gagne, but made the defense deeper.

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:44 PM
  #4
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On par for sure. On goal is the same...we know that record.

I believe if Z steps up, it could be good. But, if he doesn't see ya.

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08-06-2010, 10:05 PM
  #5
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On par. They traded a little offense for much better defense and they got even tougher. The #1 priority this off-season was to upgrade the goaltending, though, and that did not get done. This off-season is a complete disaster until that gets done.

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Old
08-06-2010, 10:20 PM
  #6
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On par, which is not good enough.

If our offense does not rebound significantly and Zherdev doesn't have a good year, and Leighton doesn't continue his Jesus run, we'll be worse than last year in spite of our improved defense.

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08-06-2010, 10:27 PM
  #7
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All depends on Zherdev IMO.

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Old
08-06-2010, 10:39 PM
  #8
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No. Offensive the Flyers are about the same. Defensive is slightly deeper. The Goalie issue scares me. Emery, when healthy, was a very good Goalie. Lits caught lighting in a bottle. No way he plays as well over an 82 game season.

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Old
08-06-2010, 10:40 PM
  #9
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For all the complaning, I'd say about on par. We'll make the playoffs, but not have home ice in Round 1.

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08-06-2010, 10:47 PM
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How is Asham not a liability on the ice? His defensive prowess is certainly not something to write home about. Obviously Shelley is a downgrade but I really don't think we're going to miss Aaron.

Btw, for what it's worth, I hope Leighton schools all of us and has a Vezina worthy season behind the best defense in the league.

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Old
08-06-2010, 10:59 PM
  #11
Garbage Goal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleary84 View Post
How is Asham not a liability on the ice? His defensive prowess is certainly not something to write home about. Obviously Shelley is a downgrade but I really don't think we're going to miss Aaron.

Btw, for what it's worth, I hope Leighton schools all of us and has a Vezina worthy season behind the best defense in the league.
Considering that Jody Shelley may be seeing regular ice-time in the beginning of the season if Betts isn't healthy and that he's our extra forward, I'd say we're going to miss Asham.

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Old
08-06-2010, 11:06 PM
  #12
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Our defense is not as upgraded as we are led to believe, IMO. Sure, we added depth and guys like Coburn and Carle are a year better. But at this point, each year that passes doesn't improve guys like Timonen and Pronger. Sure, they're still good, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them be less effective than last year. I mean, at some point those guys are going to get worse. Will it be the jump from 34-35? Maybe not. May not happen at all. But I don't think the extra year is giving them anything. I do think our defense is better, but not as much as everyone thinks.

And I think Leighton will be exposed even worse than the Hawks did. If this team is to be successful, we need JVR to put up the 50 point season we know he's capable of, and we need Giroux to blossom into a 70-80 point player. It'd be cool if Leino continued to excel, and hopefully Danny can take some playoff magic and apply it to the regular season.

Overall, I voted we are a better team on paper, but Zherdev could crap the bed and Leino might disappear, JVR could suffer the sophomore slump, etc.

God forbid Pronger gets hurt, then we'd really be ******.

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Old
08-06-2010, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleary84 View Post
Btw, for what it's worth, I hope Leighton schools all of us and has a Vezina worthy season behind the best defense in the league.
Not Vezina, Conn Smythe

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08-06-2010, 11:45 PM
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My glass is half full not half emty.

Better by a mile.

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08-07-2010, 12:27 AM
  #15
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worse.
dont trust the goaltending. defense is good.
question marks with the forwards.
coaching can only do so much with subpar goaltending.

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08-07-2010, 01:04 AM
  #16
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Anyone who picked regressed would be a horrible GM.

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08-07-2010, 01:10 AM
  #17
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by BrieresSalary View Post
Anyone who picked regressed would be a horrible GM.
Can't be worse then our current one.

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Old
08-07-2010, 01:20 AM
  #18
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Goaltending is the same. Leighton whether you want to admit or not was as good as Emery last year.
Offense is a slight downgrade. Gagne wasn't exactly the 40+ goL scorer we k ow him as and we have Z.
Defense is a manor upgrade. Mex and O'D are a huge upgrade over last year.

Overall it's an obvious upgrade.

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08-07-2010, 01:33 AM
  #19
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We made Michael F. Leighton our goalie on purpose.

/thread.

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08-07-2010, 01:47 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrieresSalary View Post
Anyone who picked regressed would be a horrible GM.
you think we can go to the Cup Final with Leighton and Boucher?

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Old
08-07-2010, 02:07 AM
  #21
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Sean O'Donnell will be on par with Ryan Parent, and Anrej Meszaros will be a slight improvement to Lukas Krajicek. JVR and Hartnell could be better, but not good enough to offset Gagne. Shelley isn't better than Asham, and our starter is Leighton. Last season, he wasn't even the Flyers' plan B. Hopefully, there aren't any injuries.

Carter and Richards could improve as well.

All in all, this team is on par or slightly worse.

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08-07-2010, 02:22 AM
  #22
dbr2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Sean O'Donnell will be on par with Ryan Parent, and Anrej Meszaros will be a slight improvement to Lukas Krajicek. JVR and Hartnell could be better, but not good enough to offset Gagne. Shelley isn't better than Asham, and our starter is Leighton. Last season, he wasn't even the Flyers' plan B. Hopefully, there aren't any injuries.

Carter and Richards could improve as well.

All in all, this team is on par or slightly worse.
I have to disagree with you there.

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08-07-2010, 03:11 AM
  #23
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We need a goalie to win a cup. Hope there is a deadline deal.

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08-07-2010, 03:12 AM
  #24
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I have to disagree with you there.
You really think he was better than Meszaros will be?

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08-07-2010, 03:28 AM
  #25
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I was on 610 WIP over an hour ago and was talking to Steve Trevelise about this. I don't think we're better than last year because our goaltending hasn't been upgraded. And, really, that's the major issue. I expect us to be fine on offense, and our defense is certainly stronger, but there is still that glaring hole in net. It's foolish to think two backups (who, if not for the Flyers, might not even be in the NHL at all) are going to serve as a two-headed monster and propel this team to elite status. I don't hate Michael Leighton or Brian Boucher, but neither is worthy of being a starting goalie in this league. I don't care how good the defense is, they're not going to allow 0 shots per game. You still need an NHL-caliber starting goalie who can make the necessary saves and even steal a game here and there. Neither Michael Leighton nor Brian Boucher is that goalie. Again, it's NOT a coincidence that Boucher/Leighton looked so good against 3 of the lowest scoring teams in the playoffs and then looked truly awful against a team with a potent offense in the Chicago Blackhawks.

Last year, we caught lightning in a bottle and rode a fairy tale story into the Stanley Cup Finals. That's not going to happen again. If we're in the playoffs (and, honestly, that's a big "if" because I think we're going to be fighting tooth and nail for one of the final 3 spots), we're going to have to face a team of the Pittsburgh or Washington ilk -- a team with real firepower on offense. When such a scenario arises, how can you feel confident in a Leighton/Boucher tandem? How does Paul Holmgren not understand this?

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