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The Free Agency/Trades Thread (Proposals, Speculation, Rumors) V

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Old
02-05-2016, 01:00 PM
  #1
AtlantaWhaler
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The Free Agency/Trades Thread (Proposals, Speculation, Rumors) V

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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
What your failing to accept is that we are not a very good team. Two teams behind us have a game in hand and neither are playing well at the moment I expect the Wild to get it together at some point just like the Ducks did remember the start they had?

The Preds have been pretty even keel no long losing streaks and no long winning streaks. By no metric are they playing good hockey. If they do not win tomorrow against the SHarks it could be March 3rd Devils game before they get another home win. These are not easy games on the schedule right now. Also the Preds have a losing record against the central with the Jets only losing 1 more game against central opponents. The Preds also have a losing record against the West overall. They have a better than .500 against the east which we expected. There is nothing to indicate the team will perform better down the stretch than they have since Feb. 2015. The games are played on the ice and there will be surprises just like the loss to the Flyers they sould not have lost that game much less let in 6. But they did.

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02-05-2016, 02:08 PM
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The Preds have been pretty even keel no long losing streaks and no long winning streaks. By no metric are they playing good hockey. If they do not win tomorrow against the SHarks it could be March 3rd Devils game before they get another home win.
I hate to be this black and white about the whole thing, but I still believe we can win any night with Pekka (or Hutton) playing well for us. The Blues game was extremely frustrating but those games happen. What we are seeing right now isn't a really bad "team", we're seeing what a team looks like when its goaltending isn't consistent on a nightly basis. Quite simply we're living and dying with Rinne and Hutton right now. We've won 5 of the last 8 games. In the St. Louis game we still got good goalie play so I'll leave that out. In our 5 wins we've given up 4 goals and in those other 2 losses we've given up 10. Is it 100% on Pekka? No, but a lot of it is and we have a chance to beat anyone if he's consistent enough. Part of a goalie's job is to bail out the defense from time to time and to win games when the team in front of him isn't clicking all the way. We've gotten almost none of that from Pekka way too often this season.

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02-05-2016, 04:10 PM
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For all you guys saying that landing Joey was a step in the right direction:

What is the next step? I mean you just keep repeating it but give me something concrete. How do you make this team (who should be contending) better? Weber and Rinne only have a few good years left when they can make a run at the Cup. It's not like this team should go into rebuild and blow things up. Do you think that Joey and Neal would sign with us if that happened? When Joey came here he thought he was coming into a team that should be a contender.

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02-05-2016, 04:45 PM
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For all you guys saying that landing Joey was a step in the right direction:

What is the next step? I mean you just keep repeating it but give me something concrete. How do you make this team (who should be contending) better? Weber and Rinne only have a few good years left when they can make a run at the Cup. It's not like this team should go into rebuild and blow things up. Do you think that Joey and Neal would sign with us if that happened? When Joey came here he thought he was coming into a team that should be a contender.
A total gutting of the bottom 9. Ribs and Fish are not getting it done due to age. Smith and Wilson are paid to be 2nd liners and are at best 3rd line guys will have to move them to bring in 2nd line talent under the cap. Pick 3 for a 4th line Watson Salomaki and some center not named Jarnkrok he is too small to center a 4th line and not good enough for any line above 4. Fill all these holes with NHL players on short contracts while waiting on Fiala, Kamenev and Sarro's to bake. Work those guys in draft well and sign another veteran defenseman.

If you want to rebuild from within might as well try to trade Rinne salary retained and Trade Weber for the best package you can get. The team will really suck for about three years where you can pick top 5 then you allow those players to mature into there roles just as Chicago, Tampa, Florida has done.

A couple ways to get there all according to how much pain you want to suffer thru.

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02-05-2016, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
A total gutting of the bottom 9. Ribs and Fish are not getting it done due to age. Smith and Wilson are paid to be 2nd liners and are at best 3rd line guys will have to move them to bring in 2nd line talent under the cap. Pick 3 for a 4th line Watson Salomaki and some center not named Jarnkrok he is too small to center a 4th line and not good enough for any line above 4. Fill all these holes with NHL players on short contracts while waiting on Fiala, Kamenev and Sarro's to bake. Work those guys in draft well and sign another veteran defenseman.

If you want to rebuild from within might as well try to trade Rinne salary retained and Trade Weber for the best package you can get. The team will really suck for about three years where you can pick top 5 then you allow those players to mature into there roles just as Chicago, Tampa, Florida has done.

A couple ways to get there all according to how much pain you want to suffer thru.
So you would do a rebuild? You do realize that almost every player on this team is on their prime age, a bit under it or bit over it? The franschise could take the hit from the rebuild but we would lose RyJo and Neal in the process. This team is in a mode where they have to try to win. Landing Vesey could be turning point as we would have a significantly better offense next year than this year. The question marks would still be Ribeiro, Fisher and Rinne.

Byrd, the rebuild comes after the Rinne and Weber era.

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02-05-2016, 06:03 PM
  #6
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So you would do a rebuild? You do realize that almost every player on this team is on their prime age, a bit under it or bit over it? The franschise could take the hit from the rebuild but we would lose RyJo and Neal in the process. This team is in a mode where they have to try to win. Landing Vesey could be turning point as we would have a significantly better offense next year than this year. The question marks would still be Ribeiro, Fisher and Rinne.

Byrd, the rebuild comes after the Rinne and Weber era.
Rebuild should not even be a consideration. You have two legit first line talents under the age of 24, an elite #1 d-man and solid second pairing all 25 or under, and a very good young goalie prospect. If anything, you consider finding a way to circumvent the Weber recapture and trade him in a good hockey trade, get out from under Rinne's contract, and build around the 20-25 year old core. You do not alienate that group by going the Buffalo/Edmonton group...not if you hope to ice a competitive team in the next decade.

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02-05-2016, 06:14 PM
  #7
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Agreed 100%. Any thought of a rebuild or "blow it up" scenario is completely ridiculous.

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02-05-2016, 06:40 PM
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I wouldn't trade Weber. The guy is a leader and one of a kind. Elite defensively and dangerous weapon offensively. I think he has 5-6 good years still ahead of him. He's competetiveness is going to keep him around here for a long time.

Rinne, on the other hand, only time will tell. He's really hard to trade.

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02-05-2016, 06:40 PM
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No need to rebuild.

I honestly believe that 85% of the problem is Pekka Rinne. The 7 million dollar man is 65th in the league in save % at .903, and we're not getting the timely save. It doesn't matter how stout the defense is, because virtually every single scoring chance is going in. We can't keep blaming the Dmen, and the forwards, and writing this off. Yes, they're going to make mistakes from time to time, but there's a reason we've made Rinne the 3rd highest paid goaltender on the planet, and it's not to get a .903 sv %.

It's not hard to believe that the forwards and dmen are clutching the sticks a little tight, knowing they have to be virtually flawless in front of the shaky netminders.

If we had gotten even league average goaltending, we'd have 3-4 more wins, and we'd be padding a wild card spot instead of clawing for one.

I hate to pile on the guy because he's been so good for so long, and he's a favorite of mine, but I don't think we can wait any longer for the old Rinne to show up, and we certainly have to look at the idea this offseason of signing a backup that can be counted on to start 30 or more games.

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02-05-2016, 07:42 PM
  #10
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If your not going to gut the bottom 9 then what is there role
Jarnkrk---
Wilson
Smith
Watson
Riberio
Fish
Nystrom
Avidsson
Salomaki
Borque

And before anyone say trade Nystrom realize his NMC with this list where do you play them? Most every one of them have been tried on every line. None of them will break 20 goals the bare minimum for 2nd line. Only Smith will reach 15 which is what we sould expect for a 3rd liner. Only Borque. Nystrom, Fish and Jarnkrok play a defensive role though Watson shows some hope but he is almost as slow as Goose.

Are you planning on 3 scoring lines? or Two with a 3rd line as a shutdown? These are the players that have failed for 12 months now.
Where are they slotted that will make this team more competitive?
Also realize if this team can't become competitive that you are running the risk of losing Johanson and Neal and more than likely Weber asking for a trade. At 7 mil per there are no options really to move Rinne his contract has placed the team in the situation Vancouver was in with Louongo's contract a couple years ago.

I do not see a magic wand that is going to convert this list into a team able to score enough goals to make up for Rinnes downturn. Maybe Smith can return to 20 goals but its doubtful playing with this group. There is just no amount of hope and prayer these guys get it done.

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02-06-2016, 06:55 AM
  #11
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Dave Poulin on TSN was speculating some trade deadline trades and one was Jonathan Drouin to NSH and it would be Fiala going the other way. I think if that would be straight up Poile would've pulled the trigger already and so would I. No interest in adding much to Fiala I see a lot of potential in him and there are a. lot question marks hanging above Drouin.

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02-06-2016, 06:59 AM
  #12
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I think rebuild might be a wrong word at least if we compare to what Edmonton has been doing for the last 50 years. I believe that a small reconstruction with a few good hockey trades could make this team more competitive in the upcomming years. For some reason many of our players still seem to hold pretty good trade value in regards to other teams but I'm not sure if that will stick until the summer if we keep playing like this. So the question is if it wouldnt be better to make this reconstruction asap. Honestly, even if we do make it to the playoff, the chances of us getting past the first round are minimal. Although one could argue that come playoff, how you perform in the regular season, means nothing.

So what could we possibly get for our movable assets?

*Rinne - To have any chance of moving Rinne we'd have to retain what, 1,5-2 mill? If we could sign Reimer as a replacement for 4 mill and move Rinne with 1,5 retained it might be a good move even though Reimer will never have the same peaks as Rinne. Maybe we could get a 1st for Rinne!

*Smith - Seems to still hold more value than Wilson, atleast among other fans. Maybe we could package him together with the worst of our 2 firsts to aquire someone like Wayne Simmonds.

*Ellis - I really like this guy so Id only move him if we could see a real offensive improvement. Edmonton are still looking for a good D-man so Id like to see us try moving Ellis together with Wilson and Ribeiro for RNH and Reinhart.

*UFA - sign a replacement for Ellis. Id probably go with Gunnarsson as I think he provides the most value for money of the ones available. He has also shown that he can go in and take a #4-6 role. Sign a third line forward, maybe someone like Versteeg would do the trick? Sign Vesey.

This would improve our forward group alot by adding scoring power as well as stronger more 2-way forwards that should have a positive effect on the teams overall defense. We remove the current Rinne risk while he still has some trade value by adding a cheaper goalie that has proven that he is a good NHL goalie and who is in the right age. Ofcourse we remove the possible upsides of Rinne. We weaken the offense of our d-core by removing Ellis, but I think we might even have improved the defense. By adding Reinhart we also add needed defensive talent to our prospect group and if anyone can make him shine its our organisation.

Fiala - Johansen - Neal
Forsberg - RNH - Simmonds
Vesey - Fisher - Versteeg
Bourque - Jšrnkrok - Salomaki

Josi - Weber
Ekholm - Gunnarsson
Jackman - Reinhart

Reimer

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02-06-2016, 10:17 AM
  #13
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I think rebuild might be a wrong word at least if we compare to what Edmonton has been doing for the last 50 years. I believe that a small reconstruction with a few good hockey trades could make this team more competitive in the upcomming years. For some reason many of our players still seem to hold pretty good trade value in regards to other teams but I'm not sure if that will stick until the summer if we keep playing like this. So the question is if it wouldnt be better to make this reconstruction asap. Honestly, even if we do make it to the playoff, the chances of us getting past the first round are minimal. Although one could argue that come playoff, how you perform in the regular season, means nothing.

So what could we possibly get for our movable assets?

*Rinne - To have any chance of moving Rinne we'd have to retain what, 1,5-2 mill? If we could sign Reimer as a replacement for 4 mill and move Rinne with 1,5 retained it might be a good move even though Reimer will never have the same peaks as Rinne. Maybe we could get a 1st for Rinne!

*Smith - Seems to still hold more value than Wilson, atleast among other fans. Maybe we could package him together with the worst of our 2 firsts to aquire someone like Wayne Simmonds.

*Ellis - I really like this guy so Id only move him if we could see a real offensive improvement. Edmonton are still looking for a good D-man so Id like to see us try moving Ellis together with Wilson and Ribeiro for RNH and Reinhart.

*UFA - sign a replacement for Ellis. Id probably go with Gunnarsson as I think he provides the most value for money of the ones available. He has also shown that he can go in and take a #4-6 role. Sign a third line forward, maybe someone like Versteeg would do the trick? Sign Vesey.

This would improve our forward group alot by adding scoring power as well as stronger more 2-way forwards that should have a positive effect on the teams overall defense. We remove the current Rinne risk while he still has some trade value by adding a cheaper goalie that has proven that he is a good NHL goalie and who is in the right age. Ofcourse we remove the possible upsides of Rinne. We weaken the offense of our d-core by removing Ellis, but I think we might even have improved the defense. By adding Reinhart we also add needed defensive talent to our prospect group and if anyone can make him shine its our organisation.

Fiala - Johansen - Neal
Forsberg - RNH - Simmonds
Vesey - Fisher - Versteeg
Bourque - Järnkrok - Salomaki

Josi - Weber
Ekholm - Gunnarsson
Jackman - Reinhart

Reimer
Even retained it would be hard to move rinne. He has been very mediocre this year and alot of teams don't have that kind of cap space to spend on a goalie.

Players I'm willing to trade for picks... Nystrom, gaustad, Bourque, jarnkrok.

Players I'd package with picks to upgrade team... Smith, Wilson. Ribeiro, fisher, Ellis

Keep from the roster Forsberg, Joey, Neal, Weber, josi, ekholm, Jackman.

Wilson has less value due to issues staying healthy.

We should also sell one of arvidsson, aberg, or fiala.

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02-06-2016, 10:46 AM
  #14
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Even retained it would be hard to move rinne. He has been very mediocre this year and alot of teams don't have that kind of cap space to spend on a goalie.

Players I'm willing to trade for picks... Nystrom, gaustad, Bourque, jarnkrok.

Players I'd package with picks to upgrade team... Smith, Wilson. Ribeiro, fisher, Ellis

Keep from the roster Forsberg, Joey, Neal, Weber, josi, ekholm, Jackman.

Wilson has less value due to issues staying healthy.

We should also sell one of arvidsson, aberg, or fiala.
You're probably right. But if I was the GM of a team without an elite goalie looking to win the cup within the next 1-2 years and I had the opportunity to sign Rinne for 5 - 5,5 mill a year Id probably consider it really hard, no matter how bad he has been this season.

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02-06-2016, 12:18 PM
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I'm starting to worry that Rinne is simply becoming someone who would benefit from a change of scenery, especially if his personal life troubles are weighing him down.

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02-06-2016, 02:11 PM
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I'm starting to worry that Rinne is simply becoming someone who would benefit from a change of scenery, especially if his personal life troubles are weighing him down.
Could not agree more.

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02-06-2016, 04:46 PM
  #17
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You're probably right. But if I was the GM of a team without an elite goalie looking to win the cup within the next 1-2 years and I had the opportunity to sign Rinne for 5 - 5,5 mill a year Id probably consider it really hard, no matter how bad he has been this season.
Nobody's going to take on the last 3+ years of that contract, even at 50% retained. GMs would be interested in giving him a cheap 1-year "prove it" deal if we bought him out, but not many teams are willing to take on much risk for a obviously declining product. GMs may be looking for an elite goaltender, but Rinne sure doesn't fit the bill at this point.

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02-07-2016, 01:25 AM
  #18
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Nobody's going to take on the last 3+ years of that contract, even at 50% retained. GMs would be interested in giving him a cheap 1-year "prove it" deal if we bought him out, but not many teams are willing to take on much risk for a obviously declining product. GMs may be looking for an elite goaltender, but Rinne sure doesn't fit the bill at this point.
So you dont think anyone would be willing to sign Rinne at 3,5 mill/year for 3 years? Wow, think you're so wrong. That would be the biggest bargain in NHL history.

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02-07-2016, 05:16 AM
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I think Granberg and 2 bit will be our bottom pairing and Jackman might be traded.

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02-07-2016, 05:57 AM
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I think Granberg and 2 bit will be our bottom pairing and Jackman might be traded.
What exactly are you trying to land by trading Jackman? Guy brings leadership and grit, something we don't want to give up. He's been nothing but good for us.

Although, I have enjoyed watching how Bitetto and Gran have played. They've played a simple, solid game night in night out and that's enough.

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02-07-2016, 06:06 AM
  #21
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In my opinion, Poile has done almost everything right building this team. He's put up a solid roster on the ice and I think with that roster, on paper, you should be able to contend for the Cup. Yes, on paper. On ice, there are still a lot of issues that can be worked out. If this team ever has it's every cog spinning I think it has every chance to contend for the Cup. I just don't think this team can put it together. Way too inconsistent.

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02-07-2016, 08:10 AM
  #22
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What exactly are you trying to land by trading Jackman? Guy brings leadership and grit, something we don't want to give up. He's been nothing but good for us.

Although, I have enjoyed watching how Bitetto and Gran have played. They've played a simple, solid game night in night out and that's enough.
I like Jackman, and live the way he has mentored the young defensemen. I'd though believe Poile could get some value out of Jackman at the deadline if we are out of the hunt.

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02-07-2016, 08:54 AM
  #23
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I like Jackman, and live the way he has mentored the young defensemen. I'd though believe Poile could get some value out of Jackman at the deadline if we are out of the hunt.
Id like to get someone for our forwards group to look up to. Even though Fisher and Ribeiro were good players, they were never super stars and Ribeiro isnt really someone to set an example. Look at what Jagr is doing for Panthers young forwards. Maybe thats the missing piece to get Fiala going and to bring Forsberg to the next level.

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02-07-2016, 09:16 AM
  #24
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Id like to get someone for our forwards group to look up to. Even though Fisher and Ribeiro were good players, they were never super stars and Ribeiro isnt really someone to set an example. Look at what Jagr is doing for Panthers young forwards. Maybe thats the missing piece to get Fiala going and to bring Forsberg to the next level.
I think it's too early to place blame on reasons why Fiala or Forsberg aren't lighting the world on fire. I think Forsberg is just going through the ups and downs of a sophomore season and has been the victim of line switching and is maybe trying too hard to generate offense himself. For Fiala, he's 19 and still has plenty of time to progress in his own right.

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02-07-2016, 12:23 PM
  #25
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I think it's too early to place blame on reasons why Fiala or Forsberg aren't lighting the world on fire. I think Forsberg is just going through the ups and downs of a sophomore season and has been the victim of line switching and is maybe trying too hard to generate offense himself. For Fiala, he's 19 and still has plenty of time to progress in his own right.
I was really hoping we would pick up MSL in the offseason. If nothing else he would've been a good mentor for our young smaller guys. Teach them how to get tree trunk legs and be effective as a smaller player

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