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Bjugstad vs. Nelson vs. Lee

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Old
11-15-2010, 10:33 PM
  #76
ndgolden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Please keep us updated on the other guy that's relevant to this discussion (i.e. dominating USHL) - Jason Gregoire. He's the guy I'll measure Lee against. I very much doubt we'll see the college numbers from Lee that we've seen from Gregoire.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Here is your update.

Jr. Jason Gregoire (12 games 4 goals 6 assists)

Fr. Anders Lee (11 games 8 goals 3 assists)


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11-16-2010, 12:53 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
Here is your update.

Jr. Jason Gregoire (12 games 4 goals 6 assists)

Fr. Anders Lee (11 games 8 goals 3 assists)

I realize Anders Lee is good, and I never said that I would be suprised to see Lee with as good of numbers as Gregoire, but I think you have to include the strength of schedule when comparing college hockey players, because top to bottom, the NCAA just isn't that deep. There are about 10-12 teams who run the show (UND and ND included). UND plays in a far harder conference top to bottom than ND, i'm not being a homer, that is just the truth.

Anders Lee has 3 points in 6 games against teams that are currently ranked in the top 20. Gregoire has 9 points in 11 games against teams that are currently ranked in the top 20. I am not trying to take anything away from Anders Lee, he is a very good hockey player, just pointing out some things that the stats might not indicate.

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11-16-2010, 08:08 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by FytinSioux View Post
I realize Anders Lee is good, and I never said that I would be suprised to see Lee with as good of numbers as Gregoire, but I think you have to include the strength of schedule when comparing college hockey players, because top to bottom, the NCAA just isn't that deep. There are about 10-12 teams who run the show (UND and ND included). UND plays in a far harder conference top to bottom than ND, i'm not being a homer, that is just the truth.

Anders Lee has 3 points in 6 games against teams that are currently ranked in the top 20. Gregoire has 9 points in 11 games against teams that are currently ranked in the top 20. I am not trying to take anything away from Anders Lee, he is a very good hockey player, just pointing out some things that the stats might not indicate.
Correction, 5 points in 8 games if you want to break it down that way. Traditionally the WCHA has been the toughest conference, but it is seems there is great parity in college hockey this year. Both the WCHA and CCHA have 5 teams in the top 20, but if your point is ND's schedule has been considerably weaker, playing BU, BC, Michigan, Miami, and North Dakota all before Dec -1 than I disagree....

The real point I am making is for people to make flagrant predictions on what success a player might or might not have, is foolish.

As this thread originally began, three players B. Nelson, Bjugstad and Lee were being compared and the speculation of what their impact might be this year as they started their freshman seasons. At least try to provide some explanation to back your quick shots against a player.

Talent will only get you so far at this point.

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11-16-2010, 01:59 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
Correction, 5 points in 8 games if you want to break it down that way. Traditionally the WCHA has been the toughest conference, but it is seems there is great parity in college hockey this year. Both the WCHA and CCHA have 5 teams in the top 20, but if your point is ND's schedule has been considerably weaker, playing BU, BC, Michigan, Miami, and North Dakota all before Dec -1 than I disagree....

The real point I am making is for people to make flagrant predictions on what success a player might or might not have, is foolish.

As this thread originally began, three players B. Nelson, Bjugstad and Lee were being compared and the speculation of what their impact might be this year as they started their freshman seasons. At least try to provide some explanation to back your quick shots against a player.

Talent will only get you so far at this point.
Correction, ND has only played 4 opponents (6 games) against teams ranked in the top 20: BU, BC, Western Michigan, and Michigan. Lee has 3 points in those games.

I agree that people were taking quick shots against Lee by saying that he shouldn't be in this conversation, but ironically those people haven't been around lately. He deserves to be in the conversation, and at this point, I would say he looks better than Nelson. Bjugstad hasn't played too many games, so I won't compare them yet.

The reason I threw out the points against ranked opponents is because you made it sound like Lee stats wise was right there with Gregoire, which statistically he is, but Lee put up the majority of his points against teams like Holy Cross and Lake Superior State, where Gregoire's points are coming from opponents with good NHL talent.

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11-16-2010, 02:40 PM
  #80
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All three have high talent levels....Im happy my team has 2 of them

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12-21-2010, 04:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
I figure Lee will get about 8-12 goals and 5-6 assits.
It should be pointed out Lee has 10 goals and 8 assists in 19 games

All that being said I still would take the other 2 guys over him

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12-21-2010, 05:12 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
Correction, 5 points in 8 games if you want to break it down that way. Traditionally the WCHA has been the toughest conference, but it is seems there is great parity in college hockey this year. Both the WCHA and CCHA have 5 teams in the top 20, but if your point is ND's schedule has been considerably weaker, playing BU, BC, Michigan, Miami, and North Dakota all before Dec -1 than I disagree....

The real point I am making is for people to make flagrant predictions on what success a player might or might not have, is foolish.

As this thread originally began, three players B. Nelson, Bjugstad and Lee were being compared and the speculation of what their impact might be this year as they started their freshman seasons. At least try to provide some explanation to back your quick shots against a player.

Talent will only get you so far at this point.
Lee sure didnt do much when they played the Sioux. Hes a big kid and I do like how he plays though.

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12-21-2010, 06:09 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by USA! View Post
Lee sure didnt do much when they played the Sioux. Hes a big kid and I do like how he plays though.
UND played pretty well defensively that weekend and shut ND down. Lee has a heck of a shot and a good release.

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01-09-2011, 08:42 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
I don't know how much you've seen of the USHL as of late but it's certainly not the type of league it was. And even then, it's not saying a whole heck of a lot. The only real talent in the league as of late is traditionally kids who forgo their Senior and even Junior years of high school. After that; the drop off is considerable with players who may be lucky to be offered D-2 opportunities. If they're lucky.

What Anders Lee did at his age in the USHL is far from impressive. You would expect any type of future D-1 player to put up those numbers and hopefully better at that age. Fellow late 2009 draft pick Erik Haula put up comparable statistics and most aren't all that excited about his projection. However, if there was a player to be excited about in the USHL, that player would be Seth Ambroz, who's almost a full 3 years younger than Lee. That's the type of talent you like to see in the USHL. Not an over-ager like Lee.

Again, coming from someone who's seen a considerable amount of these three players; Anders Lee isn't even near the discussion here. Questionable future sport direction or not; Anders Lee has never been thought of in the same light in this state as Nick Bjugstad nor Brock Nelson.
Please file under "Priceless Predictions"

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01-10-2011, 08:29 AM
  #85
Chapin Landvogt
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Funny, after this thread, it's hard to watch any of these boys without thinking of the other.

I must say, I was thoroughly impressed with Bjugstad's play at the WJC. Just the way he uses his size and power must have a certain GM VERY happy right now. I thought it was incredible how well he was playing there as a college freshman. Amazing upside there. This is no Blake Wheeler...

That Nelson even made team USA, much less got a fairly regular shift, is simply amazing IMHO. It may not have been the absolutely best/right choice, but the US program knows farrrrrrrrrrrrrr better than this humble HF poster. He's got upside, even if his frosh season at UND is, in many ways, a humble one itself.

At Notre Dame, Lee's play and production isn't surprising me in the least. In this thread, there have been a few folks who haven't thought he should be in this discussion. I still can't comment much with respect to his actual skills and play, but this kid simply has 'winner' written all over him. He's been that - in several sports - for a few years now. That alone is an aspect that I feel has been left out a bit.

It DOES usually play a role in who makes it to the bigs and what a guy does there.

At the moment, he's about as good a 6th round prospect as there is out there. He's older than the other two.

Still, I think GMs would rank the three Bjugstad, Nelson and then Lee, but each may make do so with an asterisk to point out that there's still a good possibility that Lee ends up being the best of the bunch.

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01-10-2011, 12:53 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Funny, after this thread, it's hard to watch any of these boys without thinking of the other.

I must say, I was thoroughly impressed with Bjugstad's play at the WJC. Just the way he uses his size and power must have a certain GM VERY happy right now. I thought it was incredible how well he was playing there as a college freshman. Amazing upside there. This is no Blake Wheeler...

That Nelson even made team USA, much less got a fairly regular shift, is simply amazing IMHO. It may not have been the absolutely best/right choice, but the US program knows farrrrrrrrrrrrrr better than this humble HF poster. He's got upside, even if his frosh season at UND is, in many ways, a humble one itself.

At Notre Dame, Lee's play and production isn't surprising me in the least. In this thread, there have been a few folks who haven't thought he should be in this discussion. I still can't comment much with respect to his actual skills and play, but this kid simply has 'winner' written all over him. He's been that - in several sports - for a few years now. That alone is an aspect that I feel has been left out a bit.

It DOES usually play a role in who makes it to the bigs and what a guy does there.

At the moment, he's about as good a 6th round prospect as there is out there. He's older than the other two.

Still, I think GMs would rank the three Bjugstad, Nelson and then Lee, but each may make do so with an asterisk to point out that there's still a good possibility that Lee ends up being the best of the bunch.
Rankings, predictions, potential, at the end of the day, it matters little what the "experts predict" and more so what is actually being done by any of these prospects. Its time to measure results vs. potential. All the potential in the world will not win hockey games until it is realized.

P.S. I think another D-1 Freshman E. Haula is also doing ok for a lowly 7th round pick as well.

Page 1 of this thread is filled with numerous priceless insights.

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03-15-2011, 08:08 AM
  #87
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Just for comparison sake

Nick Bjugstad 29 games 8-12-20
Brock Nelson 37 games 7-12-19
Anders Lee 39 games 22-19-41

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03-15-2011, 08:24 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Just for comparison sake

Nick Bjugstad 29 games 8-12-20
Brock Nelson 37 games 7-12-19
Anders Lee 39 games 22-19-41
Bjugstad was bounced around the line-up early in the season, they actually had him on the wing. When he did play top line C he looked great.

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03-15-2011, 08:38 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Bjugstad was bounced around the line-up early in the season, they actually had him on the wing. When he did play top line C he looked great.

Just like how Nelson was on the 4th line for most of the season. Only after being promoted did he really start scoring

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03-15-2011, 08:42 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Bjugstad was bounced around the line-up early in the season, they actually had him on the wing. When he did play top line C he looked great.
It's probably an Islanders bias, but I don't think UofM is that great of a school for guys to learn there craft before they go to the NHL. I seen them completely screw around Okposo and it seems like Ness is regressing currently on that team.

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03-15-2011, 09:08 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Just for comparison sake

Nick Bjugstad 29 games 8-12-20
Brock Nelson 37 games 7-12-19
Anders Lee 39 games 22-19-41
Wow, Lee is killing it. Those are some great stats.

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03-15-2011, 11:19 AM
  #92
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Just like how Nelson was on the 4th line for most of the season. Only after being promoted did he really start scoring
1st and 2nd year players seem to get screwed when it comes to ice-time for certain teams, only a select few seem to get big minutes.

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03-15-2011, 11:38 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
It's probably an Islanders bias, but I don't think UofM is that great of a school for guys to learn there craft before they go to the NHL. I seen them completely screw around Okposo and it seems like Ness is regressing currently on that team.
Paul Martin, Alex Goligoski, Keith Ballard, Jordan Leopold, Phill Kessel, Thomas Vanek,Blake Wheeler, would disagree with you about U developing players,

Okposo was yanked out of college half way though the year when he should have either been signed before the season or after. As to why Ness isn't living up to his promise its hard to say .

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03-15-2011, 12:09 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Bjugstad was bounced around the line-up early in the season, they actually had him on the wing. When he did play top line C he looked great.
Towards the end of the season, Bjugstad was on a really good run of scoring. In the month of Feb, he played in 8 games, had 3g and 6a for 9pts and was a +4. In March, he played in 4 games and had 3g and 2a for 5 pts so he was basically over a PPG pace since Jan and only didnt put up pts in 2 of those games since Jan.

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03-15-2011, 12:27 PM
  #95
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The info below is not meant to imply a disparagement of any of the players in the thread. Whether anyone thinks this info is important to future potential and development possibilities, well that could be a thread of its own(and probably has been)....

Birthdates

Anders Lee 07/03/90
Nick Bjugstad 07/17/92
Brock Nelson 10/15/91

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03-15-2011, 01:01 PM
  #96
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Next season will tell the real story.

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03-15-2011, 01:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by sb24 View Post
Next season will tell the real story.
Yeah on the FL board, we compared Drew Shore's freshman yr and Bjugstad's freshman yr and they were fairly similar. Its usually the sophomore yr that you get to see whether a player is likely to reach their true potential or not.

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03-15-2011, 02:01 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Paul Martin, Alex Goligoski, Keith Ballard, Jordan Leopold, Phill Kessel, Thomas Vanek,Blake Wheeler, would disagree with you about U developing players
I think Kessel and Vanek would have been good players no matter where they played. As for the other players you mentioned I'll give you those.

When all is said and done I think UofM was the wrong choice for Okposo and no matter how good he ends up in the NHL, it's no thanks to UofM. Eric Johnson is another UofM alumni that I don't think benefited from the UofM system

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03-16-2011, 10:30 AM
  #99
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Lucia's Program

It's an interesting topic. I don't know how the guy runs things, but it does seem like he gets a number of highly sought after talents - NHL draft picks no less - so he's constantly dealing with future pros. On the other hand, he seems to run things in a manner that is less concerned with the individual player's development towards NHLdom and more concerned with his program's success/progress. If I'm on track with that assessment (I dunno, I might be off-base), then that's completely fine, but it won't enthrall some of the future NHL employers nor has it been bringing much in the way of NCAA success, or have I missed the boat?

Based on some of the names that head into that program, I'd think they'd have to be a perennial nationwide top 10, if not top 5. How do Minnesotans who are in-the-know feel about, for example, the development of Minnesota being 20th in the nation and Minnesota Duluth being 7th?

Now, the Islanders obviously had a problem with Lucia's way of dealing with things when it came to Okposo. After a very good freshman year with a well-visited YouTube highlight or two, it seems he was moved to center and the stats just weren't coming. Snow (an NCAA alum himself) was worried about what Lucia was doing with his prized RW prospect, removed him and had him serving as a regular NHLer by the next fall.

Then the Isles drafted the smaller Aaron Ness as a top 35 pick in a solid draft. Expected to be a highly offensive Dman, he has gone three seasons with the Gophers doing anything but excelling. In fact, his 17 points as a freshman were already under expectations and they've thus been the most he's gathered in a season. The Isles wanted him out of there last year. I've gotta admit, it would seem to me that Ness would have been better served by taking the CHL route. Rumors are now swirling about Ness leaving in short ... is some ECHL/AHL hockey in the cards the next few months?

A similar situation was with Nick Leddy... One and done for him though. ChiTown got him to go pro ASAP.

I myself have to wonder how kids are Minnesota's Mr. Hockey and seemingly wind up in mediocrity with the Gophers???

Not trying to offend fans of the program. Maybe I have it all wrong. Just looks like this from the (far) outside.

THREAD TOPIC:
As for the players in this thread, I thought Bjugstad was a beast at the WJC. For the most part, he played incredibly well. I was shocked to see Nelson even make it, much less get some ice time. Both kids have played real well for their programs since then.

Lee is indeed older than the other two, but one may also have to consider that it's POSSIBLE (because I really don't know) that Bjugstad and Nelson donated a considerably greater amount of time to the sport in their first 18 years on this planet than did Lee.

Lee comes across as a real athlete and just one of these winner types. I'm sure we've all grown up with somebody or maybe a few guys who just played all the sports well - heck, even far above-average, usually dominating in one or two. Now Lee's focussing on hockey and has shown himself to be a winner in both the USHL and the NCAA.

Will the winning continue for him now in the playoffs???


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 03-16-2011 at 11:27 AM.
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03-16-2011, 11:06 AM
  #100
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In Lucia's time at the U. Players that have played in NHL

Erik Westrum, John Pohl, Jordan Leopold, Jeff Taffe, Paul Martin, Keith Ballard, Barry Tallackson, Matt Koalska, Thomas Vanek, Ryan Potulny, Danny Irmen, Derek Peltier, Kris Chucko, Alex Goligoski, Phil Kessel, Erik Johnson, Kyle Okposo, Blake Wheeler, Ryan Stoa, Nick Leddy, Jim O'Brien, Adam Hauser, Jeff Frazee(suited up as back up) and i am sure i missed one or two.

He was sick, really sick. On steroids. Up for days and then sleep for a few days in a row. Confusion, dizziness and lots of other ailments. Any ones work would suffer.

People complain about Okposo. Well what has he done? He went from NCAA to start the year to NHL to end the year hen he left. tDon did not mess him up that much did he? You cannot just number watch.

People complain about Leddy not putting up huge numbers. Well he is in the NHL right now. Had he gone else where would he be a calder favorite?


UMD is led by three upper classmen, Guys that went to the USHL for a bit, have little NHL future but are tearing up the NCAA. Jordan Schroeder should be a junior, Leddy a sophmore. Okposo and EJ should have graduated last year. They are not all going ot stay. During tDons illness he lost trak of those types of things.

Now we have a guy like Nate Condon. A 90 born freshmen. Erik haula aked to play a year of junior. Matt Serratore another overage grinder is just a fresh and a 89 born, Parenteau another 89 freshmen depth guy. The ship starting to swing out in 07-08 and it now starting to swing back. Bjugstad and Alt will lead the gophers back and they will two names you will hear a lot about.

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