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Old
08-23-2010, 11:38 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Sorry but what player has giroux made better by playing at center. Giroux is better suited at wing currently because he can compliment Richards or Carter rather then have to carry a line by himself. He is not consistent enough in either end to play center in a top 6 role whereas carter and Richards are proven top 6 centers.
Who do you want in the center of the ice on a 3v2 with the puck, Carter or Giroux?

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08-23-2010, 11:39 AM
  #27
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Wow the IQ level around here is dipping to an all time low.

Did I just seriously read that Briere and Giroux are better at center than Jeff Carter?

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08-23-2010, 11:40 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Carsiephan
Who do you want in the center of the ice on a 3v2 with the puck, Carter or Giroux?
Just stop. How is that relevant at all?

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08-23-2010, 11:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Who do you want in the center of the ice on a 3v2 with the puck, Carter or Giroux?
Jeff Carter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Giroux won't shoot and every buddy knows it

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08-23-2010, 11:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post

And for the record Briere is NOT better suited for Center. Centers needs to be defensively responsible and preferably a decent size. Briere is a horrible defensive center and as small as they come. Just take a look at his regular season production as a center. He's a liability. Let stop acting like Briere will be the playoff Briere all season long if he is left there because that has been proven to be false for years.
And you explain the 30pts is the playoffs as what? A small sample size? Or a line that can generate offense and complement eachother defensively? For what it is worth Briere played with 10x more passion and grit than Carter ever has during the playoffs, also take note he is not afraid to crash the crease and sacrifice his body.

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08-23-2010, 11:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Wow the IQ level around here is dipping to an all time low.

Did I just seriously read that Briere and Giroux are better at center than Jeff Carter?
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Just stop. How is that relevant at all?
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Jeff Carter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Giroux won't shoot and every buddy knows it
Carter, the guy who skates over the blueline and fires the puck from every possible bad angle? Versus a guy who can gain the blueline and commit the d-men to respect the pass or the fact he can shoot? Seriously, how long have you people watched hockey before you purchased the Jeff Carter #17 jersey?

We are talking about the guy who during the playoffs was called "possibly the most dynamic player in the NHL" by the broadcasters. Does Giroux have to work on his shot to improve? Yup, but I bet you will see that this year, whereas Carter will continue to be the same one-trick pony.....HIGH AND WIDE CARTER IS WHAT THEY CALL HIM.


And just an fyi, in case you are filling out the job application today...it is "everybody".

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08-23-2010, 11:49 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But moving Briere and Giroux to the wing does not improve the team, it weakens their ability to play their game. For some reason Carter does not have the ability to play along the boards even though he has the size and skills to be better suited at the wing. Briere and Giroux have shown and proven that they are better suited at center and make the players around them better.

Basically by keeping Carter Laviolette has guys who would be better suited playing at center but moved to wing due to Carters inability or unwillingness to move outside where he would be best suited for the team.
The stats do not agree with that assessment. Briere's best with the Flyers on Carter's wing.

Carter is a better Center then both Briere and Giroux.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's get back to 101 for you. It has been said Carter cannot play wing but Giroux or Briere can....lame, totally lame, period. See excuses above.

Reading comprehension 101....all the reason for the excuses being given as to why Carter cannot move to wing, but yet Giroux or Briere can, plus excuses for why Carter was not good in the playoffs.

Fail is keeping Carter at center and moving Briere or Giroux.
This is not true at all. Carter is a better Center then Briere or Giroux and Carter has been unable to play effectively on the wing, unlike Briere. Therefore moving Briere to wing is the BEST thing for the TEAM. I'd even put Briere on Carter's wing again.

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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Sorry but what player has giroux made better by playing at center. Giroux is better suited at wing currently because he can compliment Richards or Carter rather then have to carry a line by himself. He is not consistent enough in either end to play center in a top 6 role whereas carter and Richards are proven top 6 centers.
Bingo.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Ahem, Leighton is 30 and has been in the NHL for @9 years with just over 100 NHL starts. PLEASE STOP. This is Homers shortcoming, and the Flyers in general, never addressing the goalie situation by just getting it done, always going to the bargain rack.

Niemi no thanks. Trade Carter(and Carle or Coburn if necessary) for Bernier and xxxxx, or Quick for xxxx, and draft picks, or Schneider and xxxxx, and draft picks.
Leighton is 29, not 30. He won't be 30 until after the 2010-2011 regular season. And 29 is not old for goalies.

I hate Leighton as our starter also, but stop acting like he isn't a decent age for a goalie.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Who do you want in the center of the ice on a 3v2 with the puck, Carter or Giroux?
Carter with Briere and Hartnell on the wings.

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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Wow the IQ level around here is dipping to an all time low.

Did I just seriously read that Briere and Giroux are better at center than Jeff Carter?
Sadly, people are still popping wood for the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line and seem to think Briere would be the best Center ever.

They forget how old and irresponsible defensively Briere is.

The Carter hate on this board is ridiculous.


Last edited by IrishSniper87: 08-23-2010 at 11:56 AM.
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Old
08-23-2010, 11:53 AM
  #33
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I feel like jeff Carter ran over this guys dog while laughing but thankfully claude giroux was on site to perform emergency life saving surgery. Thankfully the dog survived but the act was not forgotten

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08-23-2010, 11:55 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I feel like jeff Carter ran over this guys dog while laughing but thankfully claude giroux was on site to perform emergency life saving surgery. Thankfully the dog survived but the act was not forgotten
Yeah, blind hatred is more fun then using your head anyway.

Briere is a -25 in the regular season with the orange and black.

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08-23-2010, 11:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan
Carter, the guy who skates over the blueline and fires the puck from every possible bad angle? Versus a guy who can gain the blueline and commit the d-men to respect the pass or the fact he can shoot? Seriously, how long have you people watched hockey before you purchased the Jeff Carter #17 jersey?

We are talking about the guy who during the playoffs was called "possibly the most dynamic player in the NHL" by the broadcasters. Does Giroux have to work on his shot to improve? Yup, but I bet you will see that this year, whereas Carter will continue to be the same one-trick pony.....HIGH AND WIDE CARTER IS WHAT THEY CALL HIM.
You clearly lack any ability to analyze the game as a whole. Who cares if Carter misses the net? All scorers do. This is one of the most asinine arguments that people come up with. Show me a player that has the ability to score 40+ goals without taking a lot of shots? Good luck becase they don't exist

You have zero perspective on anything you are arguing. Scoring 40 goals in the NHL is ridiculously hard. To place as little value on Carter's goal scoring abilities as you do, shows your lack of NHL knowledge in general to be honest. Same thing with asking a question like "3 on 2 who do you want with the puck?" and using your (highly opinionated) answer as some sort of defining point in the argument. Weak.

As far as the other guys go, I love Giroux but he's never going to score 40 goals and quite possibly never more than the low 30's in his best years. He's a really hard worker defensively and I think he does a dececnt job, but he cannot hold a candle to Carter in his own end, and he never will.

Besides, we can keep both players. Why do you need to "choose" one over the other? They both have their plusses and minuses and as great as I think Claude will be its indisputable that right now Carter is overall the more important player if you take off the noob glasses

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Old
08-23-2010, 12:13 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
The stats do not agree with that assessment. Briere's best with the Flyers on Carter's wing.

Carter is a better Center then both Briere and Giroux.

Ummm, Briere had 72 pts in his first year with Philly. Put Giroux or Briere at center over Carter and you will see the wings productions go up, put Carter and center and he will get his 30-35 goals but not necessarily make the wings better, he does not have the ability to distribute the puck like Giroux of Briere. Problem is that if you put all three on the ice and told them to dig a puck out of the corner Briere and Giroux would fight like alley cats while Carter would passively stand by looking, jabbing the stick.


Quote:
This is not true at all. Carter is a better Center then Briere or Giroux and Carter has been unable to play effectively on the wing, unlike Briere. Therefore moving Briere to wing is the BEST thing for the TEAM. I'd even put Briere on Carter's wing again.

Keep Carter away from Briere, please. Maybe Carcillo, Carter, Zherdev.....this way Carcillo can break up the fight over Zherdev and Carter and who wants the puck on his stick more.






Quote:
Leighton is 29, not 30. He won't be 30 until after the 2010-2011 regular season. And 29 is not old for goalies.
Leighton has nine years and just over 100 games in his career. Late bloomer or career NHL backup?




Quote:
Carter with Briere and Hartnell on the wings.
No, Carter is the line killer, keep him away from those two. Hartnell had 14 goals last year not only because he could not stay on his skates, but also because Carter just did not help the line.



Quote:
Sadly, people are still popping wood for the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line and seem to think Briere would be the best Center ever.
Skeptical, yes, but it was the best line during the playoffs, at least have to see if they can recreate this performance.

Quote:
They forget how old and irresponsible defensively Briere is.

The Carter hate on this board is ridiculous.

No one forgets where Briere stands in the age factor but it is about how to best utilize his skills and get him with some linemates who work well with him.

As for Carter......I have noticed tendencies with this kid I do not like, maybe he comes out this year and plays from game one to eighty-two with some heart and consistency. The problem is people who like Carter will always defer to the "he scored 46 goals just two years ago" as their reason to keep him. I have watched enough hockey in my lifetime to know that a guy can score 40 goals one year and NEVER reach that again.

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08-23-2010, 12:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I feel like jeff Carter ran over this guys dog while laughing but thankfully claude giroux was on site to perform emergency life saving surgery. Thankfully the dog survived but the act was not forgotten
So people cannot be skeptical about a players total ability? Is this our Ollie Jokinen?

I really think sometimes Flyers fans just want to see what they want and are unable to be critical of the players. The only dog out there is #17 in the playoffs.

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Old
08-23-2010, 12:15 PM
  #38
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I just love how the biggest Cartsie hater on the site is named "Cartsiephan".

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08-23-2010, 12:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
You clearly lack any ability to analyze the game as a whole. Who cares if Carter misses the net? All scorers do. This is one of the most asinine arguments that people come up with. Show me a player that has the ability to score 40+ goals without taking a lot of shots? Good luck becase they don't exist

You have zero perspective on anything you are arguing. Scoring 40 goals in the NHL is ridiculously hard. To place as little value on Carter's goal scoring abilities as you do, shows your lack of NHL knowledge in general to be honest. Same thing with asking a question like "3 on 2 who do you want with the puck?" and using your (highly opinionated) answer as some sort of defining point in the argument. Weak.

As far as the other guys go, I love Giroux but he's never going to score 40 goals and quite possibly never more than the low 30's in his best years. He's a really hard worker defensively and I think he does a dececnt job, but he cannot hold a candle to Carter in his own end, and he never will.

Besides, we can keep both players. Why do you need to "choose" one over the other? They both have their plusses and minuses and as great as I think Claude will be its indisputable that right now Carter is overall the more important player if you take off the noob glasses
Watched enough hockey in my lifetime to know I will take your opinion for what it is worth let the season take its course. We just hold different value on the players. My perspective is that Carters highest value was on the trading block over the summer. Now we will just have to see how the roster pans out, but currently you have a lot of odd pieces and players getting moved out of position for a guy who scored 46 once in his career but most likely will never reach that plateau again.

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08-23-2010, 12:20 PM
  #40
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Cartsie, your hatred is blinding you but let me see if this helps. Almost all goalies are butterfly goalies with a few who play a hybrid game. Butterfly goalies drop down to block shots so the top corners are exposed, hence guys like Carter who are snipers always go for the top corners and either score a lot or go high and wide.

Because he ran over your dog, stole your girlfriend, slashed your tires or whatever it is that has made you hate him, you can't/won't comprehend this.
We can't have Richards/Briere/Giroux as centres because they're all small. Richards makes up for it with toughness and Briere gets caught defensively often and gets penalized for stick infractions. Carter is much bigger in height and in wing span so it automatically is noticed by opposing players and they know they won't have as much room when going up against him.

You can complain all you want but Carter/Briere/Hartnell are a fantastic line. This past season was different because Hartnell's off ice issues affected his play badly, and the rumours about Carter and Hartnell's wife didn't help. You seem to just want to stir up trouble and I am surprised that the mods are allowing you to say some of the things you do as you've crossed the line on more than one occasion. Unfortunately your hatred has blinded you and you can't see anything about Carter's game that's good. It's ridiculous that you give Briere and Roo a pass as not doing well on wing but you crucify Carter for just that.

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08-23-2010, 12:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
So people cannot be skeptical about a players total ability? Is this our Ollie Jokinen?

I really think sometimes Flyers fans just want to see what they want and are unable to be critical of the players. The only dog out there is #17 in the playoffs.
Then how about we move Carter to the wing in the playoffs and put Briere at Center. Briere at center during the regular season is 10x worse of a center than Carter was in the playoffs. Did you just jump on the bandwagon and start watching the Flyers in this years playoff run? Because you clearly have not watched Briere play center during the regular season.

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08-23-2010, 12:26 PM
  #42
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I just love how the biggest Cartsie hater on the site is named "Cartsiephan".
Pretty ironic isn't it?

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08-23-2010, 12:28 PM
  #43
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trading carter seems extremely short sighted. he still has a lot of room to mature, and i'd like to see what he can do in a playoff run next year, with more experience, and less broken feet.

people around here are really hard on carter. hell, i even love ragging on Captain High-n-Wide. but at the end of the day, i think that trading him will end up being seen a as a monumental disaster.

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08-23-2010, 12:31 PM
  #44
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It's just typical hf to assume giroux and briere are better centers then Carter. Potential over proof

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08-23-2010, 12:31 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Then how about we move Carter to the wing in the playoffs and put Briere at Center. Briere at center during the regular season is 10x worse of a center than Carter was in the playoffs. Did you just jump on the bandwagon and start watching the Flyers in this years playoff run? Because you clearly have not watched Briere play center during the regular season.
The question is not about whether or not Briere is a liability, we all know this, but is a line of Hartnell/Briere/Leino complementary to give Briere the linemates to be good enough to run out three lines who can score and Briere as a center who can create for his linemates?

Just wondering why a sample of just a few games automatically takes Carter out of the wing possibilities? He is big, fast, skates well without the puck, and is best when getting the puck in open space and setting up for the wrist shot. Problem is the guy has never developed a slapshot nor a one-timer and lacks the ability to get to the front of the net.

So to answer your questions>>>>....No, just very good at actually watching the players play and not looking online at the stat sheet for my information.

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08-23-2010, 12:35 PM
  #46
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It's just typical hf to assume giroux and briere are better centers then Carter. Potential over proof
Where is the proof to sway me the other way? He scored 46 two years ago? The guy is streaky, as he goes so goes the line he plays on.

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08-23-2010, 12:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
trading carter seems extremely short sighted. he still has a lot of room to mature, and i'd like to see what he can do in a playoff run next year, with more experience, and less broken feet.

people around here are really hard on carter. hell, i even love ragging on Captain High-n-Wide. but at the end of the day, i think that trading him will end up being seen a as a monumental disaster.
If you could have gotten one of Bernier or Quick and J Johnson or Simmonds in a trade with LA for Carter which would you have done it?

Gagne scored two game winners with a broken toe, Carter only had one broken foot, we have to assume the previous problem had healed.

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08-23-2010, 12:40 PM
  #48
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Leighton is 30
29, and he likes puppies.

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08-23-2010, 12:51 PM
  #49
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Ummm, Briere had 72 pts in his first year with Philly. Put Giroux or Briere at center over Carter and you will see the wings productions go up, put Carter and center and he will get his 30-35 goals but not necessarily make the wings better, he does not have the ability to distribute the puck like Giroux of Briere. Problem is that if you put all three on the ice and told them to dig a puck out of the corner Briere and Giroux would fight like alley cats while Carter would passively stand by looking, jabbing the stick.
Honestly, go look at some statistics (you know, objective reality... not whatever is banging around your skull) and then come back and post. Because this entire post was embarrassing.

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Keep Carter away from Briere, please. Maybe Carcillo, Carter, Zherdev.....this way Carcillo can break up the fight over Zherdev and Carter and who wants the puck on his stick more.
Briere scored more even strength points last year than he did in his first season (as a center) with the Flyers... the majority of the year he was centered by Carter. Briere's drop in production was almost entirely from a drop in PP production.

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Leighton has nine years and just over 100 games in his career. Late bloomer or career NHL backup?
Career NHL backup... and he's barely that. Hopefully he doesn't crash to earth this year, or we may not make the playoffs.

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No, Carter is the line killer, keep him away from those two. Hartnell had 14 goals last year not only because he could not stay on his skates, but also because Carter just did not help the line.
Hartnell scored 30 *ing goals being centered by Carter, and Lupul popped another 25... line killer my ass. And, as noted, Briere enjoyed his best even strength season as a Flyer with Carter centering him.

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Skeptical, yes, but it was the best line during the playoffs, at least have to see if they can recreate this performance.
Sure, but it doesn't mean you move our best offensive center from center to facilitate two munchkins playing down the middle.

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No one forgets where Briere stands in the age factor but it is about how to best utilize his skills and get him with some linemates who work well with him.
How best to utilize his skills.

1) He's a defensive disaster at center.
2) He's an effective scorer on the wing.
3) He's a PP specialist.

Makes me think he should play on the wing to a more defensively capable center.

Quote:
As for Carter......I have noticed tendencies with this kid I do not like, maybe he comes out this year and plays from game one to eighty-two with some heart and consistency. The problem is people who like Carter will always defer to the "he scored 46 goals just two years ago" as their reason to keep him. I have watched enough hockey in my lifetime to know that a guy can score 40 goals one year and NEVER reach that again.
Absolutely true, because scoring 40 goals in the NHL is really *ing hard to do. You don't score 40+ goals in the NHL without *ing trying hard on a daily basis.

Of course, what's hilarious about this point is that Carter was on pace (despite a very slow start to the year) to pop 37 goals last year... and that's ignoring that he was playing really well before he got hurt. So, without the injury, it isn't inconceivable that he may have gotten to 40 last year.

Jeff Carter will score 40 goals in this league again.

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08-23-2010, 12:59 PM
  #50
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This has been mentioned numerous times but for Carter to succeed he needs to have the puck on his stick. When he was with Lupul and Hartnell it was the perfect line because Lupul was a floater/sniper, he didn't need the puck to do what he did best he just needed someone to open up the ice for him like Carter did. Hartnell did what he was supposed to do, play the power forward role. Again not needing the puck on his stick to do his job. This is the reason Carter doesn't fit in anywhere because he doesn't have a set of wingers that compliment his style of play. The best line I can think of is if we go with these lines and this top 9.

Zherdev-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Carter-Carcillo

The logic here is that Carcillo creates the room for the others to work, while Carter brings a lot of the attention towards him, taking the pressure of JVR and opening up areas for him. Still with this lineup there are a lot of players who need the puck on their stick to create plays. This makes it hard to determine lines until they begin play, to see where the chemistry is.

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