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Kovalchuk - Ovechkin

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05-31-2004, 01:19 PM
  #1
Madevilz
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Kovalchuk - Ovechkin

I didnt follow hockey too much when Kovalchuk was drafted, so I want to know who was hyped the most. Ovechkin was said to be the next big thing coming from russia with Pavel Bure comparison. How was Kovalchuk hype back then?

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05-31-2004, 01:30 PM
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Kovalchuk had a lot of hype, but I believe Ovechkin has a lot more followers as Kovy came out of nowhere. That being said between the two players I have to believe Ovechkin will be the better player. I never liked kovalchuk, but I love Ovechkin, he hits like a Canadian player and has the skills of the best and has a great work ethic. Kovalchuk could learn work ethic and physical play from Ovechkin.

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05-31-2004, 01:53 PM
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BHLCommish
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If you think Kovalchuk does not play a physical game and that he is not one of the hardest workers on the ice, you have not seen nearly enough of him.

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05-31-2004, 01:57 PM
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Kovalchuk's hype was tampered in 2001 because Spezza was around as well. Ovechkin has had far more build up than Ilya did.

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05-31-2004, 02:01 PM
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Kovy works plenty hard! It is true that his defensive intensity had been less than his offensive intensity, but over the couse of the year Hartley had him playing defense. He took shifts on the penalty kill too!

Kovy love the game and his intensity is off the charts. He continues to improve his game--even off its present level. Damn, the kid led the league in goal scoring his third year, always playing with "leftover parts" line mates. His offensive creativity rivals Mario and Wayne.

If Ovechin plays at Kovy's level I will be surprised. Kovy is league MVP material, under the right circumstances.

Oh, did I already say that Kovy is intense!!

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05-31-2004, 02:02 PM
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Ovechkin is like Kovalchuk but less tupid with the puck.

Why? He makes passes.

But they're both extremely good, and in 5 years it will be very intresting who's better.

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05-31-2004, 02:19 PM
  #7
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Ovechkin has been scouted much closer, for much longer. He was a shoe-in for #1 in this draft three years ago. He is also seen as probably a safer prospect than Kovalchuk, as he has proven much more over a longer period at draft time. For instance, Ovechkin has been playing in the top league in Russia for a few years, where as Kovalchuk was playing in the Rus1 league, which is a tier below (but still very good), when he was drafted.

Kovalchuk also had a few questionable performances people were critical of, in particular at the WJC in run-in's against Team Canada. Not so much about his skill, but he had a cockiness to him that Ovechkin does not (which could be good or bad I guess). There was also more of a "hate" on, and as such, he probably received some unfair criticism.

That said, Kovalchuk was aknowledged to have the size, speed and goal scoring package that was certainly equal to that of Ovechkin at this time. His "upside" was looked at as pretty limitless. Ovechkin's might even been seen a tier lower my some in the goal scoring department, although he is seen as a much more balanced and complete player.

If they were both in the same draft, I'm sure most scouts would opt for Ovechkin, but there would certainly be some saying they felt Kovalchuk would be better. That's at least how I see it.

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05-31-2004, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilka91
Ovechkin is like Kovalchuk but less tupid with the puck.
Clarify the meaning of "being stupid with the puck". Clarify why "passing means you're being smart with the puck".

I've heard you say at least 5 times in various threads about "Ovechkin is better because he is less stupid". Exactly when is Kovy "stupid" and why is shooting a bad thing? He has more assists than goals this year so I'm thinking he's not as "retarded" as you think he is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On topic again, yes Ovechkin is definitely more touted than Kovalchuk was. Some people had been insisting at the 2001 draft that Spezza was better. But Ovechkin is pretty much a clear-cut #1. I've seen Kovalchuk play over a hundred times and I've seen Ovechkin play less than 20 times so I can't comment on the skill factor. (... And I'm sorry Washington fans... but: ) I hope Ovechkin doesn't stay with the Caps for too long.


Last edited by TelperiŽn: 05-31-2004 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
05-31-2004, 02:47 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Kovy works plenty hard! It is true that his defensive intensity had been less than his offensive intensity, but over the couse of the year Hartley had him playing defense. He took shifts on the penalty kill too!

Kovy love the game and his intensity is off the charts. He continues to improve his game--even off its present level. Damn, the kid led the league in goal scoring his third year, always playing with "leftover parts" line mates. His offensive creativity rivals Mario and Wayne.

If Ovechin plays at Kovy's level I will be surprised. Kovy is league MVP material, under the right circumstances.

Oh, did I already say that Kovy is intense!!
Intensity includes both sides of the ice, Bure was an intense offensive player but a huge liability because he did nothing on D just like Kovy. Mario and Grets are in there own category and probably always will. Nobody in the NHL today comes close to rivalying those two.

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05-31-2004, 02:50 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHLCommish
If you think Kovalchuk does not play a physical game and that he is not one of the hardest workers on the ice, you have not seen nearly enough of him.
The most physical thing he ever did was injure himself throwing his shoulder into the boards on a pathetic hiting attempt his rookie year. Kovy is a finesse player, when he hits you have to take a picture because you may not see it until the next season! Sorry about the hardest workers, I meant intensity(overall meaning O and D together).

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05-31-2004, 02:56 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_TheGreat
Intensity includes both sides of the ice, Bure was an intense offensive player but a huge liability because he did nothing on D just like Kovy.
Well, what you refer to is two-way play, not intensity.

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05-31-2004, 03:25 PM
  #12
Vincent_TheGreat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Well, what you refer to is two-way play, not intensity.
Ok, put it this way kovy gets the puck he is very intense, when he plays D or doesn't have the puck he looks like he has been awake for 4 days.

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05-31-2004, 03:31 PM
  #13
Alex Kovalev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Kovy works plenty hard! It is true that his defensive intensity had been less than his offensive intensity, but over the couse of the year Hartley had him playing defense. He took shifts on the penalty kill too!

Kovy love the game and his intensity is off the charts. He continues to improve his game--even off its present level. Damn, the kid led the league in goal scoring his third year, always playing with "leftover parts" line mates. His offensive creativity rivals Mario and Wayne.

If Ovechin plays at Kovy's level I will be surprised. Kovy is league MVP material, under the right circumstances.

Oh, did I already say that Kovy is intense!!

Kovy? you mean Alexei Kovalev

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05-31-2004, 03:37 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Kovalchuk's hype was tampered in 2001 because Spezza was around as well. Ovechkin has had far more build up than Ilya did.
right. spezza was even more hyped, some spoke of the new gretzky...maybe the same persons that are now on the bandwagon of crosby. some will never learn. i remember that kovalchuk was seen as the #2 of his draft for a long time and maybe two month before the draft, he reached the spezza level of hype.

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05-31-2004, 04:03 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_TheGreat
Kovalchuk had a lot of hype, but I believe Ovechkin has a lot more followers as Kovy came out of nowhere. That being said between the two players I have to believe Ovechkin will be the better player. I never liked kovalchuk, but I love Ovechkin, he hits like a Canadian player and has the skills of the best and has a great work ethic. Kovalchuk could learn work ethic and physical play from Ovechkin.

Ummmm. This is a classic case of somebody hypong whoever is to be drafted at the time. Kovalchuk works extremely hard, and anyone who says he doesn't, must not follow hockey or watch him carefully. He is extremely intense and passionate about the game, and he works extremely hard.

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05-31-2004, 04:13 PM
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This thread is so much fun to read.

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Old
05-31-2004, 04:38 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kovalev
Kovy? you mean Alexei Kovalev
Kovalenko!

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05-31-2004, 05:24 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zecke26
right. spezza was even more hyped, some spoke of the new gretzky...maybe the same persons that are now on the bandwagon of crosby. some will never learn. i remember that kovalchuk was seen as the #2 of his draft for a long time and maybe two month before the draft, he reached the spezza level of hype.
This simply isn't the case.

Kovalchuk was #1 well before Christmas - and most rankings the whol eyear. And while you might have found a few people whispering Spezza's name with statements like "you never know, Spezza may just turn out to be better..." it was hardly a case of Kovalchuk not being the consensus #1. You have the same whispers about Malkin, albeit a little more muted.

The reality is there were other players challenging for #1 as much as Spezza - and it wasn't that much of a challenge when it came down to it. The only publication I can recall that had someone other than Kovalchuk #1 after Christmas was the Red Line report. One month they put Chistov #1 as a statement on how high they felt about him (they put Kovalchuk back to #1 the next month). Hell, Red line had Spezza #4.

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05-31-2004, 06:05 PM
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I would rank Kovalchuk's intensity up there with Steve Yzerman. I would rank his 'smartness' up there with Lemieux. Lemieux has never backchecked more than 3 or 4 times in his entire career, much less his first couple seasons. So don't give me that 'Kovalchuk is a stupid player' remark.

Physically, I think Kovalchuk could be every bit as physical as a Keith Tkachuk very soon - maybe even as soon as next year.

I think you'll find that all you Kovalchuk doubters are going to be very, very, VERY wrong inside of 3 years.

I can see this kid being ranked up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe. I think he's that good.

Ovechkin on the other hand, while a great player, I would compare him more to a Sakic type player. Insane skill, but I do not sense the same level of talent nor determination & pure force of will out there on the ice that I see in Kovalchuk. And that's what truely makes Kovalchuk a frighteningly good player.

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05-31-2004, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I would rank Kovalchuk's intensity up there with Steve Yzerman. I would rank his 'smartness' up there with Lemieux. Lemieux has never backchecked more than 3 or 4 times in his entire career, much less his first couple seasons. So don't give me that 'Kovalchuk is a stupid player' remark.

Physically, I think Kovalchuk could be every bit as physical as a Keith Tkachuk very soon - maybe even as soon as next year.

I think you'll find that all you Kovalchuk doubters are going to be very, very, VERY wrong inside of 3 years.

I can see this kid being ranked up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe. I think he's that good.

Ovechkin on the other hand, while a great player, I would compare him more to a Sakic type player. Insane skill, but I do not sense the same level of talent nor determination & pure force of will out there on the ice that I see in Kovalchuk. And that's what truely makes Kovalchuk a frighteningly good player.
In the end, I'd wager Kovalchuck and Ovechkin are their own players. It'll be interesting to see when all is said and done which guy wins more Stanley Cups/Harts. They're like dopplegangers.


Last edited by EroCaps: 05-31-2004 at 06:31 PM.
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05-31-2004, 07:34 PM
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Right now I would rank Kovalchuk ahead of Oveckin, if this kid puts up 41 goals at the age of 20 and still has 4-6 years of improvement, what things could he end up doing? The possibilities are limitless.

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05-31-2004, 07:39 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I would rank Kovalchuk's intensity up there with Steve Yzerman. I would rank his 'smartness' up there with Lemieux. Lemieux has never backchecked more than 3 or 4 times in his entire career, much less his first couple seasons. So don't give me that 'Kovalchuk is a stupid player' remark.

Physically, I think Kovalchuk could be every bit as physical as a Keith Tkachuk very soon - maybe even as soon as next year.

I think you'll find that all you Kovalchuk doubters are going to be very, very, VERY wrong inside of 3 years.

I can see this kid being ranked up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe. I think he's that good.

Ovechkin on the other hand, while a great player, I would compare him more to a Sakic type player. Insane skill, but I do not sense the same level of talent nor determination & pure force of will out there on the ice that I see in Kovalchuk. And that's what truely makes Kovalchuk a frighteningly good player.

I was about to write a post about the Kovalchuk-Ovechkin but you wrote exactly what I was about to say.

Ovechkin to the Sakic comparison is exactly it !

Kovalchuk will probably score between 750-900 goals in his career IF he's stay healthy & in a DEFENSIVE ERA, that's what I called GIFTED !!!

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Old
06-01-2004, 08:52 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IlyaK17
Clarify the meaning of "being stupid with the puck". Clarify why "passing means you're being smart with the puck".
Obviously the point wasn't that someone who makes passes is automatically not stupid or smart with the puck; it was that someone who never makes passes when he should is stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlyaK17
I've heard you say at least 5 times in various threads about "Ovechkin is better because he is less stupid". Exactly when is Kovy "stupid" and why is shooting a bad thing? He has more assists than goals this year so I'm thinking he's not as "retarded" as you think he is.
I've seen only clips pf Ovechkin (while reading tons of words) so i can't say about him, but as for Kovalchuk i think Wilka91 is not wrong, he is just harsh and hasty, he often doesn't take the time to fully explain what he means.
Kovi is 'stupid' when he takes the puck in transition, is covered by defenders and while his linemates are open he doesn't realize it or doesn't care and goes for the shot anyway.
I think he abuses of his GREAT shot. Defenders know he will go anyway for the shot and so they can go all against just Kovalchuk making him less effective than how much he could be ( ).
In the last Olympics he did it so many times it was even embarassing, his linemate Samsonov, also when open, was regularly ignored by him.
But don't get me wrong, i think (as Wilka91 i guess) that Kovi is a tremendous player.

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06-01-2004, 09:03 AM
  #24
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When I say "Kovalchuk is stupid with the puck", it means that he could be smarter with it, which would make him even a better player than he is right now, that is to say the top offensive gun in the NHL. He could put up monster numbers, but he's not ready.
The 2002 Olympics illustrate this perfectly. As helicecopter reminded it, Kovy just ignored his teammates. He was simply hanging out there waiting for a pass from Fedorov or Samsonov, and justt drove to the net, no matter how many defensemen were in front of him or from what angle he was shooting.

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06-01-2004, 09:27 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilka91
Kovy...just drove to the net, no matter how many defensemen were in front of him or from what angle he was shooting.



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