HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Canucks Sign F Raffi Torres to 1-Year, $1 Million Deal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-06-2011, 12:17 PM
  #451
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 14,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
im hoping he reverts back to his old-self that used to score 27 in edmonton a few years ago.. or the 06 guy that scored 14? in 22 playoff games. that would be great. INCONSISTENCY is the only problem with raffi. he will turn it on when he wants to.. but other times he's just a floater. maybe a nagging injury?
Who is this guy? Torres has 0, 0 and 4 goals in his 3 trips to the playoffs.

Drop the Sopel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 12:20 PM
  #452
Shareefruck
Registered User
 
Shareefruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
No need to run and hide - Taylor Pyatt is a better player than Torres...
He's great in his own end and has always been an awesome complement player who has some chemistry with anyone on any line. We could use his strength back there, and it's not like Torres has been consistently throwing his body around, really. He'd be a great fit with Malhotra and Hansen, especially defensively, IMO-- that could even be a shutdown line.

The year he left, he could have been retained for 1 million, right?

Ungrateful fans and unfairly scapegoated as far as I'm concerned.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 02-06-2011 at 12:26 PM.
Shareefruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 01:37 PM
  #453
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
sorry to bump this thread but. Raffi has been "inconsistently bad so far." i think after he scored his hattrick in edmonton. He has become a lazy floater. Should van keep him? thinking he'll at least at some point in the playoffs turn it up a notch Or gillis made yet another mistake in the f.a pool and decides to waive/trade him?
this reminds me of those posts here suggesting the Canucks waive/trade Salo or Ballard... or Samuelsson.

do people actually follow Gillis here, or do they think that he's some generic computer generated GM who's track record is irrelevant?

What has Gillis ever done in his entire history as GM that would make you think he's going to deal Torres?

Can you name any player that he has signed or traded for who hasn't worked out that he's dealt, within the season they were acquired, without them demanding a trade out? Schneider has been the only guy that has been dealt in the same season he was signed - and he demanded a trade out and Gillis did what he's done with a lot of players - accommodate them.

You suggest that O'Brien didn't work out... he was kept for 2 full seasons here... Johnson didn't work out... 2 full seasons... Bernier didn't work out... 2 full seasons... this is Gillis' MO.

He's not about to deal a guy who he just signed to a 1yr deal as a UFA, on a cheap deal where salary cap is not an issue... Torres could be a complete train wreak this entire season, but he'll still be given a chance in the playoffs and if he doesn't work out, he'll walk as a UFA after.

Gillis isn't the type of GM who deals such assets. It's part of his whole "players' GM" persona he likes to keep up... not a good message to send potential future UFAs if you're signing guys and then dealing them in the same season, and you're not going to see Gillis do that.

This is just as unlikely to happen as Salo, Ballard or Samuelsson being dealt this season... Gillis has been here for a couple years now and has made several moves (and non-moves)... we should know his tendencies better by now.

NFITO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 01:44 PM
  #454
medhatcanuck
Registered User
 
medhatcanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Inside JayZ's Belly
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,076
vCash: 500
Torres just seems like he's completely complacent. Obviously I have no idea whats going on his head, but I think he's just happy to be out there. I think he can score 1 goal per series, which might prove to be an important goal.

Play him on the 4th line, him and Glass would be mean as hell.

medhatcanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 01:47 PM
  #455
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post

The year he left, he could have been retained for 1 million, right?

Ungrateful fans and unfairly scapegoated as far as I'm concerned.
Pyatt didn't want to come back:
Quote:
He left the game for three weeks, unable to justify putting hockey ahead of his mourning. He rejoined the Canucks midway through the playoffs but in the summer, when he had become an unrestricted free agent and no longer had the distraction of daily hockey, his clarity told him he needed a new environment.

"I was looking for a change of scenery and to turn the page as far as my career goes," he said Monday.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...lor-pyatt.html

Hedberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:09 PM
  #456
The Big Foot
Registered User
 
The Big Foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
This is just as unlikely to happen as Salo, Ballard or Samuelsson being dealt this season... Gillis has been here for a couple years now and has made several moves (and non-moves)... we should know his tendencies better by now.
I see your argument and alot of people have the same idea in their heads, but this last bit is taking it a little too far IMO.

Salo is a core player with a history here and NTC. Ballard was brought in for significant assets, and has played well and has room to grow still. Sammy has the cup experience and versatility to play in different roles and on the PP, which is huge. These guys are unlikely to get dealt.

Torres on the other hand is not a big part of the team, he's here on a one-year deal, we gave up nothing to get him. Pretty different asset from the guys you listed.

If we're worried about what free agents will think, how about being able to go into negotiations and say that we're willing to do what it takes to win the Stanley Cup. We don't want to become too much of a country club where guys like Torres come in and seem disinterested because their jobs are safe.

People like to project their philosophies onto Gillis, and then base arguments on their notion of his "tendencies". He has only being doing this job for three years now and as we've seen he's already tweaked his roster-building strategy - he is still developing as a GM and don't be surprised if he goes outside the box people here are putting him in.

The Big Foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:22 PM
  #457
timorousme
luongod
 
timorousme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,500
vCash: 500
but its a one year deal so waiving/trading shouldn't enter into the discussion

timorousme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:30 PM
  #458
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Foot View Post
I see your argument and alot of people have the same idea in their heads, but this last bit is taking it a little too far IMO.

Salo is a core player with a history here and NTC. Ballard was brought in for significant assets, and has played well and has room to grow still. Sammy has the cup experience and versatility to play in different roles and on the PP, which is huge. These guys are unlikely to get dealt.

Torres on the other hand is not a big part of the team, he's here on a one-year deal, we gave up nothing to get him. Pretty different asset from the guys you listed.

If we're worried about what free agents will think, how about being able to go into negotiations and say that we're willing to do what it takes to win the Stanley Cup. We don't want to become too much of a country club where guys like Torres come in and seem disinterested because their jobs are safe.

People like to project their philosophies onto Gillis, and then base arguments on their notion of his "tendencies". He has only being doing this job for three years now and as we've seen he's already tweaked his roster-building strategy - he is still developing as a GM and don't be surprised if he goes outside the box people here are putting him in.
so then provide me with ONE SINGLE example where Gillis moved a player that didn't want out, within a season of getting him?

He signed Johnson as a UFA... he didn't work out... did he trade him? What about Wellwood... picked him off waivers, then re-signed him... Hordichuk? Was fairly useless here and still didn't move him his first season here. None of these guys had NTC, but none wanted out, and Gillis gave them all time to fit into this roster - more than half a season, and each had their full playoff opportunities.

Gillis does not make rash judgments like the majority of fans here... just because a player isn't working out for the first few months of arriving here doesn't mean that Gillis will ship him out within a year of him being here... he's NEVER done that (other than with Schneider who himself demanded a trade out).

Shouldn't that tell us something?

Torres isn't going anywhere this season... even if he's struggling, he's still an asset as a 4th liner and at $1mill cap hit, Gillis himself has signed a 4th liner that makes more than that, and then kept him for his full 2yrs despite him not fitting into this team!

As far as projecting my own philosophies on what Gillis does - this is absolutely not the case here... I would personally deal Torres myself (not a fan of him at all on the 3rd line, and Glass is a better/cheaper option at 4th line LW, while I hate using players out of their natural positions where either would move to the right side)... I would have dumped Johnson into his first year when he looked like he wasn't working out... and I personally would also consider options to move Ballard as well. Hell, I'm not even against asking players with a NTC (ie. Salo) to waive them if it can improve the team in doing so. I also discussed a trade option with Pens fans having us send Samuelsson to their team - and it's a trade that I personally would do (Talbot/Rupp+Kennedy) that Pens fans agreed to... though I know that Gillis won't move him.

But I have always considered the GM's tendencies when looking at what realistic options the team will take... I've always done that since I've posted here during Burke's term. IMO it's a waste of time discussing ideas that the GM has shown a track record for not doing. I don't side with Gillis on everything he does, but I do consider everything he does when exploring what more he will do moving forward.

NFITO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:33 PM
  #459
BloatedGuppy
Registered User
 
BloatedGuppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Trading Torres would be a mistake. This is sort of par for the course for these forums though. Find the guy on the longest cold streak and make an impassioned jeremiad about how he needs to be banished for the sake of the team's future success.

Torres has played some stretches of truly poor/indifferent hockey this year. Anyone paying attention to his history as a hockey player would realize this is pretty consistent with his MO. He is extraordinarily streaky, perhaps moreso even than Samuelsson. When he's off his game, he is 4th line fodder. When he's on his game, he can be a dominant player.

Torres brings an important element to this team that would be hard to replace in his absence...he is a borderline dirty player who hits to hurt. When he decides to bring his physical game he runs right through guys like a heat seeking missile. Anyone who wonders at the value this kind of contribution would provide in a playoff series need look no further than Byfuglien's hit on Edler, or Bertuzzi's hit on Al MacInnis.

He's a guy making a 3-4th line salary with tremendous upside. He was a clutch contributor for the Oilers during their Stanley Cup run. Who are you going to replace him with for his paltry 1 million salary? What elements will they bring? Can they replace what Torres is capable of bringing?

BloatedGuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:39 PM
  #460
Reverend Mayhem
1 for you, 19 for me
 
Reverend Mayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,021
vCash: 940
Send a message via Skype™ to Reverend Mayhem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Who is this guy? Torres has 0, 0 and 4 goals in his 3 trips to the playoffs.
I think he was thinking about Pisani that one year in 2006.

Reverend Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:48 PM
  #461
The Big Foot
Registered User
 
The Big Foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
Mathieu Schneider was traded after signing here. Yes he wanted out, but obviously not too many guys are going to get dealt if everything is peachy.

My point above was that Gillis hasn't been doing this long enough to say for sure what he will and won't do.

And you never know what's going on behind the scenes, maybe Torres is great in the room, maybe not. Seems like a knucklehead to me, but as long as you don't have too many (esp in important roles - see Jokinen, Bertuzzi), it's good to have a few knuckleheads around.

The Big Foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:48 PM
  #462
AndyPipkin
PSN: Lord_Of_War
 
AndyPipkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,284
vCash: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
Torres isn't going anywhere this season... even if he's struggling, he's still an asset as a 4th liner and at $1mill cap hit, Gillis himself has signed a 4th liner that makes more than that, and then kept him for his full 2yrs despite him not fitting into this team!
More then anything this is why he isn't going anywhere.

AndyPipkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 02:48 PM
  #463
The Big Foot
Registered User
 
The Big Foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
PS, "jeremiad" = word of the day, nice one BloatedGuppy.

The Big Foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 03:16 PM
  #464
VanEric
Registered User
 
VanEric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,344
vCash: 500
There's no point to trade him. You're not going to get anything for him and he's not taking up much cap space. Hopefully he bumps his slump soon and gets hot like he did earlier in the season.

He's a guy you hope can be one of those unsung playoff heroes along the way where everyone goes, "Boy, Raffi didn't do much all year but man was he great against team ____?" There's lots of those guys every year in the playoffs.

VanEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 04:00 PM
  #465
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Foot View Post
Mathieu Schneider was traded after signing here. Yes he wanted out, but obviously not too many guys are going to get dealt if everything is peachy.

My point above was that Gillis hasn't been doing this long enough to say for sure what he will and won't do.

And you never know what's going on behind the scenes, maybe Torres is great in the room, maybe not. Seems like a knucklehead to me, but as long as you don't have too many (esp in important roles - see Jokinen, Bertuzzi), it's good to have a few knuckleheads around.
he's been here long enough AND he's said enough things about how he builds his team, treats his players and handles his contracts, to come up with an educated guess as to what he'd do.

and Schneider isn't a comparable here... if Torres goes to Gillis and said he wants out, I'm sure Gillis would accommodate him - it again falls within how Gillis has always acted - again being that "players' GM" he will accommodate the player if he doesn't fit in with this team. Keep in mind that Schneider was a healthy scratch here for several games before he got fed up and wanted out to get a regular role elsewhere. Torres hasn't been a healthy scratch here even ONCE. These are not two comparable players in any way.

There are several other examples to back that up as well - such as trading guys after waiving them when they didn't get picked up by another team... instead of letting those players drift away in the minors he found teams that would be interested in them, even though they passed through waivers first.

It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots here... and in his 2+ years here we certainly know enough about Gillis to know how he's going to handle Torres or other contracts.

NFITO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 04:44 PM
  #466
CCF
This is the year....
 
CCF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Across Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,089
vCash: 500
We are first in the NHL. People need to relax.

CCF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 05:07 PM
  #467
Nuckles
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ( ͡ ᴥ͡)
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In front of computer
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,444
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF View Post
We are first in the NHL. People need to relax.
TRADE HALF THE TEAM! GO INTO FULL REBUILD!!!
Cody Hodgson = savior



Nuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 05:23 PM
  #468
Hielo Grande
Registered User
 
Hielo Grande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: vallarta
Country: Mexico
Posts: 438
vCash: 500
i think gillis has shown himself to be pretty fair with players. SOB and hordichuk cud easily have been dumped in the minors but he worked out deals in their favour. and he has said from the get-go that he will not ask a player to waive a NTC or NMC. he is a player-conscious gm. mathieu schneider thot he was better than ehrhoff and wasn't happy on the moose so he welcomed a move gillis worked out. clearly mikey acted in the player's favour. if torres asked to be moved he wud be. otherwise his contract will be honoured. if i were an NHL player i wud be quite happy to work for gillis. i wud be very surprised to be proved worng.

Hielo Grande is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 07:33 PM
  #469
Jyrki21
Registered User
 
Jyrki21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Cyprus
Posts: 4,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF View Post
We are first in the NHL. People need to relax.
Especially because if guys like Malhotra, Torres and Raymond were scoring as much as fans "expect," it would simply have to come at the expense of teammates, unless people honestly believe the Canucks could score at 1992-93 levels while no one else does.

Jyrki21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 07:50 PM
  #470
HANSENISBEST
Registered User
 
HANSENISBEST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 366
vCash: 500
For God's sake, he's making a million dollars as an inconsistent depth player that is on pace for 17 goals and 32 points. Some of the expectations surrounding this team are becoming more absurd by the minute with our first place standing. Perhaps a look back at 2002-2003 will remind some of you that regular season means nothing (although this doesn't apply as much to Torres as it does to other players on the team).

HANSENISBEST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 07:58 PM
  #471
CCF
This is the year....
 
CCF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Across Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyrki21 View Post
Especially because if guys like Malhotra, Torres and Raymond were scoring as much as fans "expect," it would simply have to come at the expense of teammates, unless people honestly believe the Canucks could score at 1992-93 levels while no one else does.
True enough.

The Colorado team that had Sakic, Hejduk, Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne, etc was a prime example. Not enough minutes to go around.

CCF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 08:00 PM
  #472
LostMyGlasses*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Simon Fraser
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
He's great in his own end and has always been an awesome complement player who has some chemistry with anyone on any line. We could use his strength back there, and it's not like Torres has been consistently throwing his body around, really. He'd be a great fit with Malhotra and Hansen, especially defensively, IMO-- that could even be a shutdown line.

The year he left, he could have been retained for 1 million, right?

Ungrateful fans and unfairly scapegoated as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed, I never had too large a problem with Pyatt, especially after he was put back onto the third line after a stint with the Sedins and on the second line.

Defensively, he's far more aware than Torres, and his big body is impossible to contain for many defencemen, even if he's not trying to be physical.

That said, I'm with the people that think the third line needs a mix up and a puck carrier needs to be placed on that line. Neither Torres or Malhotra are going to score too many goals being shooters. They have to be the ones going to the net, both are garbage collectors. Raymond would be worth a shot with them, but I'm not sold on Hansen or Tambellini on the second line. Torres might be worth a try there, but his play has lacked a lot of jump at times.

LostMyGlasses* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 09:09 PM
  #473
VanEric
Registered User
 
VanEric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,344
vCash: 500
Um, there's a pretty massive reason why Taylor Pyatt isn't still playing here and he's said as much.

VanEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 10:45 PM
  #474
ProstheticConscience
I see an eagle
 
ProstheticConscience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canuck Nation
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,071
vCash: 883
Torres at $1mil >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bernier at $2mil.

He'll bump his slump sooner or later, and he's fine as a 3rd line grinder. No reason to get rid of him.

ProstheticConscience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2011, 11:55 PM
  #475
mrmyheadhurts
Registered Loser
 
mrmyheadhurts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,257
vCash: 50
I actually thought he had a solid game against the Hawks, Manny was just so bad that night the whole line suffered.

mrmyheadhurts is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.