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Schenn or Gunnarsson to San Jose

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Old
08-26-2010, 07:30 PM
  #201
Rickety Cricket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
by this logic, Tavares is pretty worthless, eh?
No dude, the Islanders finished 25th

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Old
08-26-2010, 07:33 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
No dude, the Islanders finished 25th
Okay, then I got a new proposal.

To Washington- Taylor Hall

To Edmonton- 7th round pick

This makes sense because when you finish first, everything you have is much more valuable

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08-26-2010, 08:04 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post


I'm pretty sure Schenn will be better then Komisarek.
His ceiling is about Adam Foote. It's not a given that he reaches his potential. Him becoming as good as Komi is more likely than him becoming Adam Foote. Even if you disagree with this comment, laughing at it shows some pretty blatant homerism.

Side note: I'm SHOCKED by how much stats have been brought up in arguments of defensive play in this thread. Stats have little value in determining an nhl player's defensive skills.

As for the overvalueing leafs thing, even a 29th place will have a couple good value nhl guys. That being said, there are at least 10 Leafs players who Leaf fans mildly and often wildly overrate. Schenn and Gunnarsson are in that category. They often seem offended when somebody suggests that either of them aren't guaranteed to be top pairing guys.

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Old
08-26-2010, 08:07 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManoWarrior View Post
His ceiling is about Adam Foote. It's not a given that he reaches his potential. Him becoming as good as Komi is more likely than him becoming Adam Foote. Even if you disagree with this comment, laughing at it shows some pretty blatant homerism.

Side note: I'm SHOCKED by how much stats have been brought up in arguments of defensive play in this thread. Stats have little value in determining an nhl player's defensive skills.

As for the overvalueing leafs thing, even a 29th place will have a couple good value nhl guys. That being said, there are at least 10 Leafs players who Leaf fans mildly and often wildly overrate. Schenn and Gunnarsson are in that category. They often seem offended when somebody suggests that either of them aren't guaranteed to be top pairing guys.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying in this post!

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08-26-2010, 08:10 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManoWarrior View Post
His ceiling is about Adam Foote. It's not a given that he reaches his potential. Him becoming as good as Komi is more likely than him becoming Adam Foote. Even if you disagree with this comment, laughing at it shows some pretty blatant homerism.

Side note: I'm SHOCKED by how much stats have been brought up in arguments of defensive play in this thread. Stats have little value in determining an nhl player's defensive skills.

As for the overvalueing leafs thing, even a 29th place will have a couple good value nhl guys. That being said, there are at least 10 Leafs players who Leaf fans mildly and often wildly overrate. Schenn and Gunnarsson are in that category. They often seem offended when somebody suggests that either of them aren't guaranteed to be top pairing guys.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see, I agree that I probably shouldn't have laughed at his post, but I'm pretty confident Schenn will be better then Komisarek.

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08-26-2010, 08:40 PM
  #206
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why do we go thru this EV ERY day??

Leafs fans overvalue Leaf players
Non-Leaf fans undervalue Leaf players

Both these are givens...just like death, taxes, and incompetant government. Why must every trade thread with a Leaf mentioned turn into a p***ing contest?

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Old
08-26-2010, 08:49 PM
  #207
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It's all good

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Oh, I see what your saying. Sorry, you were just responding to someone who said he had no fat. My bad, I thought you actually thought Schenn was taking steroids. You are correct, if he had literally "no" fat, then steroids would be a possibility.
I'm sorry I had to google search something but I figured it was all a mistake......

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Old
08-26-2010, 10:41 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Okay, then I got a new proposal.

To Washington- Taylor Hall

To Edmonton- 7th round pick

This makes sense because when you finish first, everything you have is much more valuable
Edmonton has to add to get Washington to even think about it.

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Old
08-26-2010, 10:46 PM
  #209
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I'd say it would take Setoguchi to nab Gunnarsson and probably Pavelski and a 1st for Schenn to get Burke listening. Can't say it's real fair value but im sure Burke wants to hold on to both of them.

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08-26-2010, 11:09 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post


I'm pretty sure Schenn will be better then Komisarek.
Having seen Komisarek for a number of years, I nigh guarantee Schenn will be better and I am not a particular fan of his; little too overrated for my taste. Komi is a poor comparison due to the fact he has not had a single good season since 2008, where Markov made him out to be a #2-3 somehow. That is not necessarily a knock at Komi. He could very well recovery however there is much to be proven.

The majority of these proposals are idiotic. Gunnarsson is not worth Setoguchi and has not done anything yet to prove he will be. It could happen, hence my "yet" response. Seto could also have a forty goal season. You never know, presently... Seto has more value. I do agree Burke would demand the world for both him and Schenn, which is the reason neither will be moved.

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Old
08-26-2010, 11:12 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
I'd say it would take Setoguchi to nab Gunnarsson and probably Pavelski and a 1st for Schenn to get Burke listening. Can't say it's real fair value but im sure Burke wants to hold on to both of them.
Do you not see that a person who posted basically that is getting totally laughed and flamed?

Or are you just trolling?

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Old
08-26-2010, 11:52 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
I'd say it would take Setoguchi to nab Gunnarsson and probably Pavelski and a 1st for Schenn to get Burke listening. Can't say it's real fair value but im sure Burke wants to hold on to both of them.
Remember how Burke picked Pavelski for the USA olympic team, later raving about how he is a Swiss army knife type player, and despite outcries from the media for someone else, Pavs was exactly what that team needed? Something tells me if he could get Pavelski for fair value (rather than a steal as proposed above), he'd be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake, even if he loves Schenn. He is a strong two-way player, a leader, and would easily be Toronto's best center. He'd also be the teams best penalty killer and defensive forward, while being an ideal partner for Kessel. Is he Thornton, Savard, Richards, or Crosby? No, but he is one of the best 2nd line centers in the game, and could probably hold down a #1 spot now, not to mention he has gotten better every year.

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Old
08-27-2010, 08:21 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
I'd say it would take Setoguchi to nab Gunnarsson and probably Pavelski and a 1st for Schenn to get Burke listening. Can't say it's real fair value but im sure Burke wants to hold on to both of them.
Pavelski on his own would be enough for either of those players. Schenn is probably somebody that Burke wouldn't consider trading for anyone, but Pavelski is about as close as he'd realistically come to making an exception.

Setoguchi for Gunnarsson is very good for Toronto. People are really overrating Gunnarsson, he was solid, but lets not get carried away with how good he was or what his potential is. A 30 goal scorer has tremendous value, and we could really use a top six forward.

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Old
08-27-2010, 11:54 AM
  #214
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Seems like the Leafs are the only team on HFBoards expected to sell off their young assets for a bargain price.

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:08 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
First of Schenn was not a 5-6 defencmen for the leafs, he was in the top 4 for the majority of the year since Komisarek was injured. Gunnarson wasn't even their half the year...

In terms of Value Schenn is worth every bit of Pavelski because shutdown defencmen in the playoffs are way more valuable then 2nd line center men. It's a proven fact... Schenn isn't an elite shut down defender yet, but he's showed every bit that he can be in the foreseeable future.

How can you say the potential top pairing shut down defender is not worth a 2nd line centre?

For people who use the argument that Schenn doesn't have value because he hasn't reached his potential yet, then I guess Seguin/Hall don't have value either... common, give me a break

Luke Schenn can easily surpass Chris Phillips...

A lot of scouts feel he can be every bit as good as Brent Seabrook.

and for the record, seabrook > Pavelski
The problem here is you don't trade for potential (unless you're in full on rebuild mode). Potential isn't worth nearly as much as a proven player. In Pavelski you start now to see a history of good two-way play, some clutch plays, good defending. In Schenn we've seen glimpses that he could be a shut-down d-man... but he's not, yet and that's still a "maybe".

So I agree, shut down d-man>>>2nd line center... but POTENTIAL shut-down d-man <<< established 2nd line center.

As others have pointed out there's a few elite prospects that could be moved for lots, Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Pieterangelo, Doughty, Myers... but they are few and far between and nothing Schenn has shown puts him in that class.

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:43 PM
  #216
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I think we've established that Toronto is not getting superstars for these two kids, and San Jose is not getting these two kids for picks and prospects.

The only way I see Burke being interested in moving young defensemen already in the NHL with upside is for a forward in a similar situation. The best example of this is probably Setoguchi. I could see discussions being started in that regard, depending of course on how high Burke is on Setoguchi, and how high Wilson is on Schenn and/or Gunnar.

Even then, attempting to pry two young defensemen with potential out of a team in the basement of the league with atrocious defensive statistics last year seems like a difficult task.

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:55 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
The problem here is you don't trade for potential (unless you're in full on rebuild mode). Potential isn't worth nearly as much as a proven player. In Pavelski you start now to see a history of good two-way play, some clutch plays, good defending. In Schenn we've seen glimpses that he could be a shut-down d-man... but he's not, yet and that's still a "maybe".

So I agree, shut down d-man>>>2nd line center... but POTENTIAL shut-down d-man <<< established 2nd line center.

As others have pointed out there's a few elite prospects that could be moved for lots, Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Pieterangelo, Doughty, Myers... but they are few and far between and nothing Schenn has shown puts him in that class.
Let's not forget he could play #1 center on Toronto. Not exactly going to get that chance with SJ playing behind Thornton.

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Old
08-27-2010, 04:52 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
I'd say it would take Setoguchi to nab Gunnarsson and probably Pavelski and a 1st for Schenn to get Burke listening. Can't say it's real fair value but im sure Burke wants to hold on to both of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
Do you not see that a person who posted basically that is getting totally laughed and flamed?

Or are you just trolling?
I fail to see how it's trolling when I give you reasons to my opinion and not even put down other teams players.. I fully said that I didn't think it was fair value but it's not like Schenn or Gunarsson are on the market.

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