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Not to mention Hemsky is pretty tough, to say he is soft is to say he has never watched hemmer play...
I have watched every Vancouver-Edmonton game since the lockout + most of their playoff run + tons of their games on CBC. Hemsky is in no way shape or form "tough". If he is tough then this years Oiler roster = 07 Ducks. This is not a slight to Hemsky, he is a very good offensive player.
Staal fills a huge need for the Oilers. They desperately need size at center/the forward position in general. With three highly skilled, but RELATIVELY small, soft wingers coming up, Hemsky is expendable if he gets a return like Staal. Pits gets a legitimate winger to player with Crosby.
Deal helps both teams. Slight tweaks may need to be added, but the basis of it makes a lot of sense.
I have watched every Vancouver-Edmonton game since the lockout + most of their playoff run + tons of their games on CBC. Hemsky is in no way shape or form "tough". If he is tough then this years Oiler roster = 07 Ducks. This is not a slight to Hemsky, he is a very good offensive player.
Staal fills a huge need for the Oilers. They desperately need size at center/the forward position in general. With three highly skilled, but RELATIVELY small, soft wingers coming up, Hemsky is expendable if he gets a return like Staal. Pits gets a legitimate winger to player with Crosby.
Deal helps both teams. Slight tweaks may need to be added, but the basis of it makes a lot of sense.
Tough might be the right word....but to say he is "soft" (like people have in this thread) is just plain wrong...soft players are perimiter players that do everything to avoid any and all contact on the ice...Hemsky does not do this and has been hurt in the past because he goes to the dirty areas in front of the net, goes into the corners (where he usually gets hurt from people hitting him from behind when he is 5 feet from the boards), and will attempt any move regardless of whether he gets hit...probably a little more reckless than he should be and should protect himself a lot more given his past, but the guy just isn't a soft player...yet everyone from other fanbases continue to use this as a con against his game without watching him (not talking about you obv)
what about something like Brule and Cogs for Staal?
Edmonton needs forwards with size, and could use Staal as a 2nd line C
Pit gets a 2 young forwards who could slide into top 6 rolls at the same price, or less then Staal.
Brule is super gritty and a very skilled forward, Cogs could also slide down and play 3rd line C if need be.
what about something like Brule and Cogs for Staal?
Edmonton needs forwards with size, and could use Staal as a 2nd line C
Pit gets a 2 young forwards who could slide into top 6 rolls at the same price, or less then Staal.
Brule is super gritty and a very skilled forward, Cogs could also slide down and play 3rd line C if need be.
meh.. Not enough going to PIT .. They could do much better for someone like Staal.
Eberle is a big enough name to pry away Staal and has the potential to be a long term linemate of Crosby.
PIT is not trading away Staal just because they have Malkin and Crosby. Its like the Oilers not trading MSP just because we have Penner and Hall on the LW.. They would expect a big name player with high end potential.
Yeah my math was exactly correct. Thanks for pointing it out. Thanks for further proving your ignorance by calling Hemsky soft. Anyone who knows a lick about Hemsky knows he gets hurt because he fearlessly goes into the tough areas to make a play. Sure he only averages 64 games a year. But I can live with that.
You missed a season.. (Hint 08/09). Good job smart guy.
He fearlessly goes into the corner against Regehr... Smart choice.
And personally I'd rather have a play who plays 80 or so games a year.
And Hemsky is soft, he doesn't hit either. He had 5 hits this season, and 16 last year in 72 games. He only beat out Shremp (4 games), Jacques (7 games), Potulny (8 games), Brule (11 games) and O'Sullivan (19 games).
You missed a season.. (Hint 08/09). Good job smart guy.
He fearlessly goes into the corner against Regehr... Smart choice.
And personally I'd rather have a play who plays 80 or so games a year.
And Hemsky is soft, he doesn't hit either. He had 5 hits this season, and 16 last year in 72 games. He only beat out Shremp (4 games), Jacques (7 games), Potulny (8 games), Brule (11 games) and O'Sullivan (19 games).
Omitting a season that only further proved my point doesn't really have anything to do with my math skills.. You should ask your uncle dad for help next time you decide to make another idiotic argument.
Does anyone REALLY believe they're going to trade Jordan Staal??? The depth at centre has been a huge part of their success, and they've had plenty of it with a crappy blueline and crappy wingers. Now the cap went up so they fixed the blueline, but they're still likely to have the crappy wingers.
Although they would obviously like a "legitimate" winger.... it just doesn't seem to be in the cards. Sitting on about $1.5m in cap space with 1 roster spot to fill basically dictates that they will not be adding a legit winger this year.
You missed a season.. (Hint 08/09). Good job smart guy.
He fearlessly goes into the corner against Regehr... Smart choice.
And personally I'd rather have a play who plays 80 or so games a year.
And Hemsky is soft, he doesn't hit either. He had 5 hits this season, and 16 last year in 72 games. He only beat out Shremp (4 games), Jacques (7 games), Potulny (8 games), Brule (11 games) and O'Sullivan (19 games).
Hemsky is not soft. I would not trade him for Staal. Pitts should probably look at O'sullivan. If motivated, he could be a good sniper (playing with Crosby)
Hemsky is not soft. I would not trade him for Staal. Pitts should probably look at O'sullivan. If motivated, he could be a good sniper (playing with Crosby)
Hemsky is soft. If there is a continuum, ranging from soft to gritty, Hemsky most definitely falls on the 'soft' side and not very close to the middle. That doesn't mean that we're saying he is Samsonov. We (I at least) recognize that he's not allergic to board play. But, if he's in the offensive zone with the puck, he's likely to dangle, maybe do an inside-out move, then make a tricky pass. That is a soft play.
I kind of doubt that he spends much time in the tough area near the net (I have never really noticed it personally). My reasoning is simple and based on common sense (combined with watching him a fair bit). He has great hands (maybe the best in the League as many Oiler fans would tell you) and a very good shot (Oiler fans don't try to discredit this because I constantly hear about how underrated it is). His career high is 23 goals. If has such great hands + very good shot + goes to dirty goal scoring areas, he scores 30+ goals or at least does not struggle to score 20 goals. Some thing from that equation is missing and it's absolutely established that he has great hands, widely thought that he has a very good shot, but the third point is only thought by Oiler fans. At least one of these can't be true be if he's yet to score 24 goals. The only other explanation of this is that his hands get worse from the pressure of being near defenders. If this is true, then it gives further evidence that he is soft. Also he doesn't hit and tends to get injured when he plays in the dirty areas. So those points don't help in the "Hemsky is not soft" argument.
I don't know why Oiler fans think of Hemsky as untouchable. He is your greatest trade asset. He could return at least one piece that the Oilers are missing (big young center or good young d man or even a good young goalie). The Oilers have three young wingers coming (4 if youre high on Omark) who are similar to Hemsky (skilled, smallish, softer). The Oilers won't be contending for the next two years, so even if he is very productive, they will have an abundance of skilled wingers while they severely lack in other areas of needs. On a rebuilding team with multiple holes in its roster and prospect pool, it is not smart to keep a player who is old(er) and has your largest trade value, while being a part of the team's biggest surplus (skilled wingers).
Once again, not trying to unfairly make Hemsky look bad (he is a great offensive player), just saying that it's a bit silly that Oiler fans say he's "gritty" or "untouchable".
Hemsky is soft. If there is a continuum, ranging from soft to gritty, Hemsky most definitely falls on the 'soft' side and not very close to the middle. That doesn't mean that we're saying he is Samsonov. We (I at least) recognize that he's not allergic to board play. But, if he's in the offensive zone with the puck, he's likely to dangle, maybe do an inside-out move, then make a tricky pass. That is a soft play.
I kind of doubt that he spends much time in the tough area near the net (I have never really noticed it personally). My reasoning is simple and based on common sense (combined with watching him a fair bit). He has great hands (maybe the best in the League as many Oiler fans would tell you) and a very good shot (Oiler fans don't try to discredit this because I constantly hear about how underrated it is). His career high is 23 goals. If has such great hands + very good shot + goes to dirty goal scoring areas, he scores 30+ goals or at least does not struggle to score 20 goals. Some thing from that equation is missing and it's absolutely established that he has great hands, widely thought that he has a very good shot, but the third point is only thought by Oiler fans. At least one of these can't be true be if he's yet to score 24 goals. The only other explanation of this is that his hands get worse from the pressure of being near defenders. If this is true, then it gives further evidence that he is soft. Also he doesn't hit and tends to get injured when he plays in the dirty areas. So those points don't help in the "Hemsky is not soft" argument.
I don't know why Oiler fans think of Hemsky as untouchable. He is your greatest trade asset. He could return at least one piece that the Oilers are missing (big young center or good young d man or even a good young goalie). The Oilers have three young wingers coming (4 if youre high on Omark) who are similar to Hemsky (skilled, smallish, softer). The Oilers won't be contending for the next two years, so even if he is very productive, they will have an abundance of skilled wingers while they severely lack in other areas of needs. On a rebuilding team with multiple holes in its roster and prospect pool, it is not smart to keep a player who is old(er) and has your largest trade value, while being a part of the team's biggest surplus (skilled wingers).
Once again, not trying to unfairly make Hemsky look bad (he is a great offensive player), just saying that it's a bit silly that Oiler fans say he's "gritty" or "untouchable".
I don't think many Oiler fans will rave about how great his shot is. He certainly does have some of the sickest dangles in the game but not that great of a shot. The reason why he hasn't been a 90 point player is due to a combination of Horcoff not being able to bury a sweet backdoor pass into an open net + Hemsky not playing a full season because players take liberties with him. He's constantly getting boarded and hit in the head with no repercussion
I don't think many Oiler fans will rave about how great his shot is. He certainly does have some of the sickest dangles in the game but not that great of a shot. The reason why he hasn't been a 90 point player is due to a combination of Horcoff not being able to bury a sweet backdoor pass into an open net + Hemsky not playing a full season because players take liberties with him. He's constantly getting boarded and hit in the head with no repercussion
I went to school with multiple (very knowledgeable) Oilers fans who say that he does have a very good shot and a ton of Oilers fans on message boards say the same thing. Also, commentators constantly say something along the lines of "he has a great shot, too bad he doesn't use it more". He has played close to a full seasons a couple times, the only way he has a shot at 90 points is if he's playing with Crosby. Speaking of Crosby, there is another player who people talked about having a very good shot, but not using it very often. What he do when he had absolute **** linemates? He started shooting more and saw a dramatic rise in his goal totals. 90 point players (especially wingers) usually don't make so many passive decisions with the puck. Being a 90+ point, 22 goal scoring winger seems really far fetched. Expecting 70ish assists from a winger who apparently has difficulty scoring 25 goals is pretty ridiculous.
Is this some sort of joke? Orpik's a top-pairing rock in his prime for the Penguins and has been for two years. Prospal is a 35-year old second liner. Prospal is the kind of guy you trade a second round pick for, not one of your better core players.
Besides, Orpik turned down way more money from the Rangers to stay a Penguin. I think that works against such a deal, too.
I don't think many Oiler fans will rave about how great his shot is. He certainly does have some of the sickest dangles in the game but not that great of a shot. The reason why he hasn't been a 90 point player is due to a combination of Horcoff not being able to bury a sweet backdoor pass into an open net + Hemsky not playing a full season because players take liberties with him. He's constantly getting boarded and hit in the head with no repercussion
He has a very accurate shot, not the hardest one though.
Id love Lee Stempniak but his value is probably to high to get. The Pens have around exactly 1M of cap space left. Just do not see it happening. He would be great though.
Probably we will get someone like O'Sullivan on the cheap and the top 6 will look better than it does now, but I would prefer Lee Stempniak but I think he is slightly out priced for the cap space Pittsburgh has.
Id love Lee Stempniak but his value is probably to high to get. The Pens have around exactly 1M of cap space left. Just do not see it happening. He would be great though.
Probably we will get someone like O'Sullivan on the cheap and the top 6 will look better than it does now, but I would prefer Lee Stempniak but I think he is slightly out priced for the cap space Pittsburgh has.
Ya if he would take a discount like Torres did, that would be a good move.
As for the Hemsky thing, not trying to be a dick, but did any of the Oilers fans, who are vehemently opposed to the idea of Hemsky being soft, read my post? I would like to know what makes him gritty.
Ya if he would take a discount like Torres did, that would be a good move.
As for the Hemsky thing, not trying to be a dick, but did any of the Oilers fans, who are vehemently opposed to the idea of Hemsky being soft, read my post? I would like to know what makes him gritty.
I don't think anyone said he was gritty. We said he isn't soft. It's doesn't need to be black or white. He doesnt' need to be gritty to not be considered soft.
I don't think anyone said he was gritty. We said he isn't soft. It's doesn't need to be black or white. He doesnt' need to be gritty to not be considered soft.
Ya some people did, but I understand that most Oiler fans would understand that he isn't gritty. Please name some decent players who are softer than Hemsky. I can't think of anyone other than Afinogenov and Samsonov (there must be others, but I can't think of anybody). It's not a black and white issue. Please refer to my earlier post where I talk about a continuum of soft to gritty players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14
Tough might be the right word....but to say he is "soft" (like people have in this thread) is just plain wrong...soft players are perimiter players that do everything to avoid any and all contact on the ice...Hemsky does not do this and has been hurt in the past because he goes to the dirty areas in front of the net, goes into the corners (where he usually gets hurt from people hitting him from behind when he is 5 feet from the boards), and will attempt any move regardless of whether he gets hit...probably a little more reckless than he should be and should protect himself a lot more given his past, but the guy just isn't a soft player...yet everyone from other fanbases continue to use this as a con against his game without watching him (not talking about you obv)
There are very few legitimate NHL players who live up to this very high (low?) standard to be considered "soft". Any player who does that consistently without the best skill in the world will be out of the league pretty fast. Once again, I would appreciate a list of players of softer players who are actually decent.
Ya some people did, but I understand that most Oiler fans would understand that he isn't gritty. Please name some decent players who are softer than Hemsky. I can't think of anyone other than Afinogenov and Samsonov (there must be others, but I can't think of anybody). It's not a black and white issue. Please refer to my earlier post where I talk about a continuum of soft to gritty players.
There are very few legitimate NHL players who live up to this very high (low?) standard to be considered "soft". Any player who does that consistently without the best skill in the world will be out of the league pretty fast. Once again, I would appreciate a list of players of softer players who are actually decent.
I think that your definition of "soft" is different than mine. If by soft, you mean doesn't fight and hammer guys, then players like Sakic would be considered soft. That is how I would describe Hemsky. He will not let how physical other players play influence how he plays. That is why he gets hurt. He is often reckless in that he doesn't protect himself when he goes to the tough areas. He won't take it to players physically, but he never backs down.
Would you call Crosby soft? Toews? Marleau? Yzerman? Sakic? Gaborik?
I AM NOT SAYING HEMSKY IS AT THE SAME LEVEL SKILLWISE AS THE ABOVE LISTED PLAYERS, BUT HE IS NO SOFTER.
Comrie's still out there as a UFA and could be signed for cheap. I'm sure playing with either Crosby or Malkin on the RW he'd score ~25 goals; with Staal ~15 goals.
Well, given that we are maybe/probably going to get Svatos...I still think Lisin is a solid idea
Hypothetically, we sign Svatos, stick him on line 1....sign Lisin...give the kid every chance to work with Geno, then perhaps we don't have to move Geno to wing and we keep our strength down the middle...
I know the knock on the kid is that he has zero hockey sense, but damn this kid has game...The only hole in that lineup is putting 2 unproven guys with Geno, but that line is boom/bust...if we hit on that and these guys mesh, damn....
