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Old
08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
  #101
squishy
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Here's Jim from Blueshirt Banter's side of the story:

http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/...the-puck-daddy

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08-27-2010, 01:03 PM
  #102
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
I dont know how exactly to define who should and shouldnt be allowed to go into the rangers locker room. But i think if they wanted to say Blog writer not affiliated with a local news source arent allowed in the locker area i would be ok... You cant have every tom dick and harry running around asking Questions. A line has to be drawn some where no?

As far as this situation it is there perogative to say they do not want them reporting in the ranger locker room. In reality who cares?
I agree they can't give credentials out to anyone. However, it is only a matter of time before entities like the Post and Daily News are just websites. I can't remember the last time I actually bought a newspaper.

You didn't answer my other question. Let's say I start a blog, I try to get credentialed and they tell me I have to be affiliated with a newspaper. So, I start a newspaper or magazine to go along with my blog. When am I considered a local news source?

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08-27-2010, 01:36 PM
  #103
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Writing a blog and being acknowledged by an organization like the NYR's will take not only a person who commands intregrity and professionalism, but they will have to have a body of works to demonstrate those and other attributes. You are basically representing yourself and not some corp like the Times, Post, Ledger etc. Those syndicates have a proven track record in the community. Its not Brook's face that gets him through the door, its the media pass that say's NYPost with his pix that gives him that privilege. Bloggers in my opinion will initially have to display a higher standard to just get their feet in the door. Not saying they are not deserving, just saying they have an unproven track record and some biases to overcome.

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08-27-2010, 01:47 PM
  #104
WhipNash27
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The NY Post has been around since 1801 and have a long-standing reputation. Huge difference.

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08-27-2010, 01:51 PM
  #105
StaalWars
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Here's Jim from Blueshirt Banter's side of the story:

http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/...the-puck-daddy
The league won't support MSG in an attempt to restrict the blogging community. It won't force MSG to open up to bloggers either but the NHL has been fairly forward thinking in regards to new media sources. It's something they, and certain owners like Ted Leonsis, deserve credit for.

It's interesting to me that hockey fans in the Tri-State area, regardless of team alliances, seem to be fairly unified in the opinion that hockey is under-reported in the local MSM. Hockey is a 4th class citizen in the sports sections of the newspapers. Hockey hasn't even achieved citizenship in the opinion of the local sports radio stations. Yet, most fans seem fairly unperturbed when their favorite sports organizations try to bar access for bloggers. From my perspective at least, these two issues are intrinsically connected. If someone is fine with MSG locking out non-MSM coverage that's OK by me, so long as those same people don't cry foul when the local newspapers find it appropriate to only devote half a page to three area hockey teams.

Really, this whole situation is basic market economics. Competition and consumer choice is being hindered. It's one of the few issues where MSM's interests align with those of the sports organizations they are covering. It's not the bloggers that end up losing out. It's the fan base.

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08-27-2010, 01:58 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Here's Jim from Blueshirt Banter's side of the story:

http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/...the-puck-daddy
Sounds like Jim is on the level here.

The only thing I could see the Rangers having a problem with is some of the commentary which comes out on the radio show.

I could see people inside the organization having a problem with it.....but to me that's their problem.

Fans get geeked that's why they are fans.

The Rangers would be better served acknowledging their fans passions and try to be as gracious as possible.

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08-27-2010, 02:15 PM
  #107
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Coming from a media/public relations background, this falls in line with the debate dejour of the moment.

Social and "new" media are a difficult subject for all companies and organizations. Making tough calls on what qualifies as a legit news source is becoming a time consuming problem.

It's a fine line between fringe media making their products unique and just coming off as unprofessional. Tell someone they aren't professional and they blame you for being trying to control opinions. Lower your standards and you run the risk of opening a Pandora's box.

I'm not interested in calling any sites or people on the carpet in this post. Having said that, there is a lot of garbage out there that does more harm to the advancement of "new" media than it does it help.

If you show up for interviews looking like the fat slob from the bar down the street and talking in a cartoon character voice, you're going to have an uphill battle in the media realm.

Sounds rude, but it's the blunt truth. I've been on both sides of media relations.

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08-27-2010, 03:16 PM
  #108
frankthefrowner
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I agree they can't give credentials out to anyone. However, it is only a matter of time before entities like the Post and Daily News are just websites. I can't remember the last time I actually bought a newspaper.

You didn't answer my other question. Let's say I start a blog, I try to get credentialed and they tell me I have to be affiliated with a newspaper. So, I start a newspaper or magazine to go along with my blog. When am I considered a local news source?
In this case common sense should prevail... You can tell if you just started a random newspaper on your HP Printer and whether or not have legit printing press. Now if you went out of yuour way to create village voice free type of newspaper i would imagine theyd give you credentials...Its a slippery slope I agree

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08-27-2010, 03:38 PM
  #109
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Honestly i dislike Blogging anyway the only blog i read was Sam Weinmans and once he went away so did I, i Cant stand Carp. Blogs to me are just message board people with to much money to burn. Occasionally one will start up with some decent inside sources and will actually have some info but for the most part they are just loud fans with extra money trying to make a buck off something they have no business making a buck off of.

In the end unless you have sources like Dagoon stop blogging

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08-27-2010, 03:43 PM
  #110
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
Honestly i dislike Blogging anyway the only blog i read was Sam Weinmans and once he went away so did I, i Cant stand Carp. Blogs to me are just message board people with to much money to burn. Occasionally one will start up with some decent inside sources and will actually have some info but for the most part they are just loud fans with extra money trying to make a buck off something they have no business making a buck off of.

In the end unless you have sources like Dagoon stop blogging
Eh.. i enjoy reading Inferno's and Rodents...I never considered the beat reporters pages really "blogs" more like a beat diary... (Where I get a ton of info from btw, especially Grosses..) doesnt hurt seeing a different perspective sometimes. I think the main thing about viewing blogs is that you cant take them too seriously. The ones that conduct their site in that manner are the best ones IMO.

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08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
  #111
frankthefrowner
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Eh.. i enjoy reading Inferno's and Rodents...I never considered the beat reporters pages really "blogs" more like a beat diary... (Where I get a ton of info from btw, especially Grosses..) doesnt hurt seeing a different perspective sometimes. I think the main thing about viewing blogs is that you cant take them too seriously. The ones that conduct their site in that manner are the best ones IMO.
thats my point... i see infernos opinions on here all the time. I dont need a second website for that.

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08-27-2010, 04:06 PM
  #112
StaalWars
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
Honestly i dislike Blogging anyway the only blog i read was Sam Weinmans and once he went away so did I, i Cant stand Carp. Blogs to me are just message board people with to much money to burn. Occasionally one will start up with some decent inside sources and will actually have some info but for the most part they are just loud fans with extra money trying to make a buck off something they have no business making a buck off of.

In the end unless you have sources like Dagoon stop blogging
The Rangers blogosphere is notably underdeveloped. I agree with you, there's not much content there. Even if you just isolate the SBNation community of blogs, I wouldn't place Blueshirt Banter in the top 10 of hockey blogs on there.

In regards to hockey, the blogging community's strength lies in business and CBA related issues, especially since these are topics often ignored by the MSM. Bloggers also often pick up on foreign media sources and are able to get them translated faster than the MSM, as evidenced by Squishy's blog and also the recent controversy between the Pension Plan Puppets Maple Leafs blog and the Toronto Sun's plagiarizing of their content. If Sam Weinman and Rick Carpiniello are your reference points for hockey blogs, I fully understand why you feel they aren't very valuable.


Last edited by StaalWars: 08-27-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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08-27-2010, 06:28 PM
  #113
frankthefrowner
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Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
The Rangers blogosphere is notably underdeveloped. I agree with you, there's not much content there. Even if you just isolate the SBNation community of blogs, I wouldn't place Blueshirt Banter in the top 10 of hockey blogs on there.

In regards to hockey, the blogging community's strength lies in business and CBA related issues, especially since these are topics often ignored by the MSM. Bloggers also often pick up on foreign media sources and are able to get them translated faster than the MSM, as evidenced by Squishy's blog and also the recent controversy between the Pension Plan Puppets Maple Leafs blog and the Toronto Sun's plagiarizing of their content. If Sam Weinman and Rick Carpiniello are your reference points for hockey blogs, I fully understand why you feel they aren't very valuable.
Ya see i liked Sam not because he had a diffrent view point but he provided some good insight on the actual thinking of the club. He seemed to have some real good inside sources and attended a ton of practices.

Understand my blog hate doesnt stay with the rangers its goes right to and is mainly because of Mets Blog... Matt Cerrone is nothing more than a god damn fan with an opinion and the fact that he was able to snag the domain name metsblog.com before everyone is the reason he is semi famous and now is even paid by the mets. He provides no actual insight, he never breaks a story, he serves no purpose other then he's suppose to be our voice and i think i speak for 90 percent of mets fans and say he most certainly does not.

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08-27-2010, 06:41 PM
  #114
chosen
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See this is the problem and everyone has a differing opinion of it because this is no longer defined.

While most of us agree that 90%+ of bloggers are jokes there are those who do things correctly and deserve more credit.

Remember when the Drudge Report was something no one had ever heard of? Then they broke the Lewinsky scandal and now they're referenced by media everywhere.

I think Squishy is pretty spot on on this and so was that new person who posted.

Another problem is that some people in this thread have the same elitist mentality that most journalists do.

I read a bunch of the post by hlundvist I think and as a fellow journalism major I respect the fact that he views the profession the way it was intended to be.

However, to be so naive (and no I'm not saying you are hlundvist) and act like all main stream media is professionial and full of journalistic integrity is laughable.

My hatred for journalism, after going through school for it, is that their constant preaching of "report the facts. don't state your opinion unless doing commentary. stay neutral," is all BS. I went to a major left leaning school and their idea of "neutral and reporting the facts" is skewing things to suit their ideals.

However, if you report the facts that somehow go against what they believe or deem to be correct, well then, you don't have enough dissenting opinion. You need more information and quotations from those on the other side of the aisle.

The people in this thread who simply state that bloggers need to get a journalism degree if they want to do this, obviously never went to school for journalism. Honestly, what I took from my time in school was that journalists think they're better than bloggers or anyone else because they have that degree. When in reality, the only thing someone who doesn't have the degree would need to know to be a journalist is AP Style.

Arguing the professionalism of it is a whole different ball game. We all know Larry hasn't been professional. If he were the writer in this blog and didn't work for the Post most would be saying he doesn't deserve a credential.

Why is Larry's relationship with the Post something that justifies him being un-professional?

That's the thing. Most of you guys think that because he's a journalist and he's been doing it for a long time that it's all within his right.

But if someone doesn't have a journalism degree then they're incapable of reporting stories? I never understood that logic.

Again, in my time at school I clearly sensed the disdain towards civilian journalists and this new age of media from all the "journalists" that I encountered.

The fact that anyone with a camera phone and a computer can break news on an event really doesn't sit well with the peoplw who paid thousands of dollars to go to school for it.

The main stream media is still trying to figure out how to utilize all the main stream technology and still set itself apart from people who can do the same thing as them.

I don't know enough about Blueshirt Banter or any of these guys to comment on their professionalism or any of that.

I just think that the people in here who assume that because you didn't go to journalism school then you shouldn't be able to cover something need to get a clue.

And like I said, this is coming from someone with a journalism degree.

I'm done with school and have zero desire to work in that field. It's pure and utter nonsense.

Anyone who thinks that journalists are un-biased or don't have their own agenda are just clueless. There are plenty of good ones out there, but unfortuantely a lot of times they're held at gun point by their employers agendas.




And the fact that you keep bringing up Fox without making a single reference to MSNBC or any other left leaning media group shows what's in control of your thoughts.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/msnbc-...al-media-bias/

It's no different.

The bottom line is, these media groups and networks all have agendas and all lean a certain way.

These are people. People first. Journlists second. Even if they say otherwise. It's why you can never get your media from one place and always need to get differing viewpoints on issues.

Which is why I think that these blogs are necessary. It would help if they were professional and I guess everything in between is a matter of opinion.
The difference between fox and msnbc is that only one of their respective umbrella orgs gave a million dollars to one of the partys.

If there is evidence that refutes this, please let us know about it. If they have not done so, then it would be tough to make a logical argument against my stance.

You do see a difference once a media conglomerate starts lending monetary support, right?

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08-27-2010, 06:46 PM
  #115
chosen
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
The NY Post has been around since 1801 and have a long-standing reputation. Huge difference.
Any positive rep as a news org went out the window when their headline spoke of headless men in topless bars.

journalism has toppled so far that the enquirer is the equal of the ny post.

Someone pointed to drudge becoming legit because of lewinsky. The enquirer broke the edwards story, so they must be legit, too.

By the way, I have a hockey blog, but I have also been published in the ny times, newsday, new yorker, etc, so I know a little about the biz.


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Old
08-27-2010, 09:32 PM
  #116
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Blaming it all on the Rangers as Jim is doing sure is going to help the matter.

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08-27-2010, 09:35 PM
  #117
Kel Varnsen
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hahaha what

I mean, I have no doubts whatsoever that the Rangers media policy is pretty crappy, since we know Dolan is insane when it comes to controlling some of the stuff about his teams, but I don't think "communist" is really the term you're looking for
Yeah I said before (but the mods vanished it for no good reason) the word he was looking for was probably authoritarian. A communist government can also be a democratic one, doesn't need to quash all opposition and control the media.

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08-27-2010, 11:48 PM
  #118
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Blaming it all on the Rangers as Jim is doing sure is going to help the matter.
What is their to "help" Jonathan? Jim has made it clear that he doesn't consider himself to be a journalist and views his blog and role on the radio show as a form of entertainment.

In all honesty this backlash may be late from the Fire Sather rally, but at least it has finally arrived.

Their show serves one purpose, and that is to comment on the on ice and off ice product/information that has anything to do with the New York Rangers. The beauty of their programming is being able to hear a lot of the frustrations/suggestions that fans have with the team which Zipay, Gross etc are mostly unable to explore because of the MSM muzzle.

Heck Larry Brooks is certifiably insane, yet fantastically refreshing when he asks Tortorella the tough questions and calls out John's unprofessional behavior as well as commenting on him being a terrible representative of the organization and city by their association.

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08-28-2010, 12:58 PM
  #119
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] Don't feed me this fantasized ******** about having to break the rules to make change. It's quite the opposite. The journalists who are most professional are the ones who are the most persuasive.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you're trying to tell me what journalism is and isn't about. I'm in a class called "Understanding Media" and it's taught by Richard Benedetto, one of the founder's of USA Today, former leading analyst on CNN, and a White House correspondent. His exact words on the first day of class were, "the most important thing about the media is that you can not be too emotionally involved in what you are covering and you have to cover it in a professional manner." Something tells me he has a better understanding of what is and isn't proper journalism than you do.

We clearly have two different definitions of what we consider "emotional involvement." You could has said that instead of talking down to me, name dropping your professor and being combative. I had a retort written, but its not worth extending this discussion given your attitude about the topic. A lot of us have been to school with big name professors. It doesn't shake out to much if you don't learn to question your intellectual "superiors" or realize the subjectivity inherent in every field. Have fun playing by the rules, maybe one day you can end a war or a presidency too. I'll think for myself and probably end up panhandling outside MSG.

Getting back to the topic, there does have to be a line in the sand, so to speak, but my overall view is that its good for the Rangers to get more coverage in the media even if its not through a enormous, well-established corporate channels. While you can't let everyone with a website domain into the locker room, there has to be a somewhat fair way to work through this problem. Maybe they could check up on each blog, have someone read a few posts from a few different dates to make sure that the blogger knows their stuff and is seriously committed to the venture, then divide those who want locker room access, and would be able to get it at other arenas, into 4 or 5 groups and have them rotate games in which they have access to the room? This is far from a perfect idea, but some sort of locker room time sharing could be best in terms of granting bloggers access but not overcrowding the room or stressing out the players.

Being affiliated with a print product means something today but that's something that is a shadow of what it used to be and in time it will come to mean little to nothing. When print is closer to the end, someone in the MSG offices is going to have to put some serious thought into this.

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08-28-2010, 02:12 PM
  #120
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The problem is The Rangers want nobody to cover them. As long as the fans keep coming they have no reason.

They dont care if you are Jimmy Breslin or if you conduct yourself in the most professional manner with stellar credentials.

They don't want you there. You Will NEVER be credentialed by the Rangers as long as Dolan is there.

However, The NHL wants you there, they want the sport to grow with the younger demographic through blogging. They know newspapers are dying.

NYR wants no criticism of them. Or they will call you an "irresponsible fan."

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08-28-2010, 07:23 PM
  #121
haveandare
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The problem is The Rangers want nobody to cover them. As long as the fans keep coming they have no reason.

They dont care if you are Jimmy Breslin or if you conduct yourself in the most professional manner with stellar credentials.

They don't want you there. You Will NEVER be credentialed by the Rangers as long as Dolan is there.

However, The NHL wants you there, they want the sport to grow with the younger demographic through blogging. They know newspapers are dying.

NYR wants no criticism of them. Or they will call you an "irresponsible fan."
Hmm... thats definably a pickle. I mean, it sort of makes sense that they don't want anybody to cover them given the **** show that the current management has become. Its fairly obvious to anybody who is more than a casual fan that Sather is GM for life regardless of his success because Dolan and him are buddies and Dolan looks out at MSG every night and sees the seats filled with dollar signs. So, from that perspective I guess its a damage control sort of idea, but its still pretty pathetic that they care more about covering their own practically bulletproof ***** than they do spreading the sport and the league throughout the world.

Does the NHL have any power over the individual franchises regarding this sort of thing? I'd guess they don't, but I honestly have no clue.

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08-28-2010, 09:05 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
The Rangers are talking about my partner Jim. The Rangers are wrong Jim did not organize the Fire Sather Rally.

A fellow Ranger fan did. He covered it on SB, he gave out the details on the specifics for Ranger fans to attend.

We did do a live remote from the Rally from the radio, end of story.

Bottom line is the Rangers want nobody with an inkling of dissenting opinion to be covering this club.

Jim wants Glen Sather Fired like 99% of we Ranger fans do but did not organize it.

It pissed them off to see Ranger fans actually organize, get the required permits and basically mock them for their futility.

At the NHL draft which Jim got to do interviews with all the Ranger draft picks he did them in a totally professional manner, we played them on the air.

So to me there is no issue, except the Rangers and Dolan thought they had media locked up in NY. Since there is no sports talk coverage of hockey and limited newspaper coverage, the Rangers think they can control Ranger info by basically by spoon feeding it through MSG and their website.

But with the emergence of bloggers and internet radio its a whole new ball game. The ranger blogger gets to give his unbiased opinion and fans have gravitated to these outlets in great numbers, especially the 20-35 yr old demographic.

The main culprit is media guy John Rosasco who we have both and run ins with. For the lack of a better description he is the Josef Goebbels of the operation in charge of Ranger Propaganda.

He is the guy who is signing off on Ranger website articles such as "Evgeny Grachev is ahead of Schedule."

Being credentialed is a nice perk but if you half to tow the Ranger company line and edit your opinion, it frankly isn't worth it.
Amen and Amen Brother Mouth!

My name is Margaret Hurley and I am a Ranger blogger. Sounds like the beginning of a Rangers Anonymous meeting.

I have no interest in becoming credentialed by the New York Rangers. My whole blog is about writing what I feel. I do feel I provide a different perspective on the Rangers because I am outside the NHL's target demographic, being female and AARP eligible. I started the blog to vent my frustration as a season subscriber and lifelong suffering Ranger fan.

My blog is part of Joe McDonald's New York's Sportsday. Joe is credentialed by the Rangers. I have been writing my blog for over 4 years. I write what I want with the understanding that I do not say anything slanderous (like hinting that Glen Sather may have compromising photos of Jim Dolan with a boy scout troop). I am saying that in jest, BTW!

I went to the Fire Sather rally and was a vociferous participant. While there, I went over to Zipay, Gross and Brooks and introduced myself. Some of them knew the name mhurley, not the face. The "credentialed" reporters were standing against the building watching the protest. Jim and Mouth were by the "line" interviewing the participants. The next day the beat writers reported on it. Jim and Mouth did too but they had sound and video.

Brooks and the Rangers have a symbiotic relationship. Larry will stir the pot to draw in readers with rumors and speculation. Rumor has it that the Rangers have on occasion planted info so Larry will leak it. If true, surely that would call one's journalistic integrity into question. We all know what a bastion of fine journalism the NY Post is.

The truth of the matter is that the Rangers want any media personality or source, their own and others, to tow their line. At times I have looked into John Giannone's eyes and seen conflict. Sammy too. Micheletti not so much. What can you expect? It's their livelyhood. That's why I like the Hockey Night Live Program. Having Goring and Daneyko there cuts the bullcrap and koolaide spewing to a minimum.

The Islanders need their Blog Spot bloggers like Dee Carl. If they were winning Stanley Cups, those bloggers probably wouldn't be there. Newpapers are going the way of the horse and buggy. In fact, I think all printed matter will disappear in the next 10 years. If Larry Brooks' opinions are no longer in print, won't he then be just another blogger? What will be the access criteria then? Access will still come down to the discretion of the teams and the league. In the case of the Rangers, you tow the line or you're out.

John Peter Zenger is rolling over in his grave.

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08-28-2010, 09:10 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
The problem is The Rangers want nobody to cover them. As long as the fans keep coming they have no reason.

They dont care if you are Jimmy Breslin or if you conduct yourself in the most professional manner with stellar credentials.

They don't want you there. You Will NEVER be credentialed by the Rangers as long as Dolan is there.

However, The NHL wants you there, they want the sport to grow with the younger demographic through blogging. They know newspapers are dying.

NYR wants no criticism of them. Or they will call you an "irresponsible fan."
Please don't use Breslin and professional in the same sentence. He was one of the most arrogant, self-aggrandizing people on the planet, in person and in print. He made me embarrased to be Irish.

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08-28-2010, 10:01 PM
  #124
patnyrnyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhurley View Post

Brooks and the Rangers have a symbiotic relationship. Larry will stir the pot to draw in readers with rumors and speculation. Rumor has it that the Rangers have on occasion planted info so Larry will leak it. If true, surely that would call one's journalistic integrity into question. We all know what a bastion of fine journalism the NY Post is.
I think that definitely goes on. Neil Smith used to use Dellapina to leak information when he was GM. Sather didnt use Dellapina and Dellapina's attitude changed drastically under the Sather regime.

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08-28-2010, 10:59 PM
  #125
mhurley
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Ya think Gary hired Dellapina to spite Sather?

John seemed like an alright guy from the little interaction I had with him on his Daily News blog. Was sorry to see him go over to the dark side.

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