HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Bobby Ryan to the Blues

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-26-2010, 07:16 PM
  #101
Gibsons Finest
R-E-L-A-X
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
another way to describe every bobby ryan thread. Always hard to make decent proposal when everyone is "untouchable" though.

IMO, Backes + Pietrangelo for Ryan + is a decent start. The + has to be more than Mitera that I offered though, but its not as bad as youre making it seem.
No it absolutely does not. There shouldn't be a + from our side to begin with. I love David Backes, but he is simply a gritty glue guy who is a UFA at the end of this season. Backes and Pietrangelo for Ryan is close value-wise, but still a bit of a loss for us, so there's no way Mitera or something even more valuable gets added. And hockey-wise, that is such an unnecessary trade to make, considering Backes is a major downgrade offensively now and in the future, and we don't need Pietrangelo. Like I said earlier, only makes sense if we can expand it to add a defenseman like Jackman or Brewer.

Gibsons Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:17 PM
  #102
SephF
5-14-6-1
 
SephF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,121
vCash: 500
Something surrounding Ryan for Johnson is the only way I can see a trade going down.

SephF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:17 PM
  #103
underslept
"well-informed"
 
underslept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
In any trade, in case any of you are unaware, the team with the asset wants as much as possible in return and the team trading for said player wants to give up as little as possible.

Ryan for Boyes and Sonne

This is adequate compensation. The Ducks receive a scoring forward who has shown he can score as well, if not better than Ryan and a tenacious, two-way scoring forward with a lot of potential.

If the Blues need to add more, we're trading for Corey Perry or Ryan Getzlaf and are no longer concerned with Bobby Ryan's inflated value.

underslept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:19 PM
  #104
Gibsons Finest
R-E-L-A-X
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
Thats just the risk in any trade involving prospects and picks.

Devil's advocate...what happens if Ryan has injury problems in a year?

There is risk involved in any move.
That's a terrible devil's advocate. What happens if Pietrangelo has injury problems in a year? There's absolutely no reason to think that either guy will have injury problems, that kind of thing is a risk in any deal, and you can't put anything into it, because more often than not you'd never see it coming, and more often than not it doesn't pan out. However, there is a lot of reason to believe a prospect won't quite pan out and reach his full potential. Bobby Ryan is a proven commodity, Pietrangelo isn't in the slightest, it's not hard to understand.

Gibsons Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:33 PM
  #105
Celtic Note
Not in Ferguson
 
Celtic Note's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 9,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
i wouldnt do the trade from a Blues perspective either honestly, im just trying to give what I personally think is around fair value.

If i was St. Louis, i wouldnt be going after Ryan at all, you guys have a very good looking core for the future, and I would sacrifice the assets it would take to get Bobbym when you really dont need him.

Just my opinion though, Im not sure how Blues fans feel
Me either, some fans just see a top player possibly available (not matter how faint the possibility) and get all starry eyed. Its not worth giving up what we would need to get Ryan. Nor does it seem in the best interest of the Ducks to send Ryan packing.

Celtic Note is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:39 PM
  #106
c4rcy
Power lvls over 9000
 
c4rcy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: OC, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
underslept... really?

Boyes' scored 14 goals last year . Sonne managed 24 points in a full AHL season.

You're telling me our young 30-goal star talent with potential of hitting 40 in his 3rd NHL season is worth those two?

Hmmm...credibility questionable.

c4rcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:41 PM
  #107
Sean Garrity
Shut up and Dance!
 
Sean Garrity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Nut
Country: United States
Posts: 9,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by underslept View Post
In any trade, in case any of you are unaware, the team with the asset wants as much as possible in return and the team trading for said player wants to give up as little as possible.

Ryan for Boyes and Sonne

This is adequate compensation. The Ducks receive a scoring forward who has shown he can score as well, if not better than Ryan and a tenacious, two-way scoring forward with a lot of potential.

If the Blues need to add more, we're trading for Corey Perry or Ryan Getzlaf and are no longer concerned with Bobby Ryan's inflated value.
Ducks would want defensive help... not offensive. Cool story though.

Sean Garrity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:47 PM
  #108
Celtic Note
Not in Ferguson
 
Celtic Note's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 9,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
underslept... really?

Boyes' scored 14 goals last year . Sonne managed 24 points in a full AHL season.

You're telling me our young 30-goal star talent with potential of hitting 40 in his 3rd NHL season is worth those two?

Hmmm...credibility questionable.
Boyes is capable of 40 goals. He has scored 26, 43 and 33 goals in a season before.

But the Blues would have to add to this proposal for sure.

Celtic Note is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 07:53 PM
  #109
snarktacular
Ducks tank is on!
 
snarktacular's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,715
vCash: 90
I'm going to post in 3 parts. First a typical proposal, then an attempt to turn this question on its head.

1) My "typical" proposal. Ryan + borderline defenseman (your pick of Mikkelson, Festerling, Syvret, the warm body throw in type) for Jackman, Berglund, and a forward prospect like Tarasenko.

2) My question to Ducks fans: If you had to trade Ryan and furthermore had to trade him solely for picks, what would you realistically expect? Pretend that the picks are mid-round (~15), and this is an average draft. If it helps, pretend that the Ducks can later deal the picks for whatever roster help you want.

IMO, I would expect roughly 3 1st round picks for Ryan. Maybe 3 firsts and a second. That's a lot of value, but not unprecedented. Pronger 2 netted us ~4 firsts and a 2nd (Sbisa is worth roughly 2 firsts, 2 more firsts, and Lupul might be worth about a 2nd if he had no injury issues).

3) Blues fans: now wait a little bit until you see a Ducks fan average... but now say you were dealing for the picks Ducks fans say they want. What from your team would you expect to get moved for those picks? Make it 2 pieces of value, or 2 and a pick.

snarktacular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:02 PM
  #110
Selanne138
Registered User
 
Selanne138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
No it absolutely does not. There shouldn't be a + from our side to begin with. I love David Backes, but he is simply a gritty glue guy who is a UFA at the end of this season. Backes and Pietrangelo for Ryan is close value-wise, but still a bit of a loss for us, so there's no way Mitera or something even more valuable gets added. And hockey-wise, that is such an unnecessary trade to make, considering Backes is a major downgrade offensively now and in the future, and we don't need Pietrangelo. Like I said earlier, only makes sense if we can expand it to add a defenseman like Jackman or Brewer.
didnt know that Backes was a UFA at years end, definitely brings down the value. Value wise i wouldve done this, but I thought Backes was locked up, clearly i was wrong.

Selanne138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:04 PM
  #111
fcpremix88
Registered User
 
fcpremix88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 2,941
vCash: 500
Perron + Polak for Ryan

fcpremix88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:09 PM
  #112
underslept
"well-informed"
 
underslept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
underslept... really?

Boyes' scored 14 goals last year . Sonne managed 24 points in a full AHL season.

You're telling me our young 30-goal star talent with potential of hitting 40 in his 3rd NHL season is worth those two?

Hmmm...credibility questionable.
Rather pathetic counterpoint.

Boyes has SHOWN the ability to score as well as or better than Ryan. So you really have no argument bringing up an off season when the previous year he scored 43 goals.

Sonne would likely become the Ducks' best forward prospect, certainly their best center. It was his first season in the pro leagues and you'd have to be under a rock to not know he's got plenty of potential.

underslept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:09 PM
  #113
underslept
"well-informed"
 
underslept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcpremix88 View Post
Perron + Polak for Ryan
Drastic overpayment.

underslept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:12 PM
  #114
Static
Registered User
 
Static's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 18,737
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Static
I really, really hope Murray trades Ryan for adequate compensation. As long as its adequate, I'm cool. Adequate. Adequacy.

Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:12 PM
  #115
underslept
"well-informed"
 
underslept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
My "typical" proposal. Ryan + borderline defenseman (your pick of Mikkelson, Festerling, Syvret, the warm body throw in type) for Jackman, Berglund, and a forward prospect like Tarasenko.
Jackman, Berglund, and Tarasenko should be able to get the Blues a lot more than Ryan and a borderline defenseman.

If the Blues were willing to deal that much, Ryan would no longer be the target.

underslept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:16 PM
  #116
Static
Registered User
 
Static's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 18,737
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Static
Quote:
Originally Posted by underslept View Post
Rather pathetic counterpoint.

Boyes has SHOWN the ability to score as well as or better than Ryan. So you really have no argument bringing up an off season when the previous year he scored 43 goals.

Sonne would likely become the Ducks' best forward prospect, certainly their best center. It was his first season in the pro leagues and you'd have to be under a rock to not know he's got plenty of potential.
I'm sure we can base something around Visnovsky for Johnson, dont you think? Lubo has SHOWN the ability to be a 70 point dman, so you really have no argument bringing up his injured seasons when he clearly has shown the ability to put up huge amounts of points and play solid defense.

Is this not adequate?

Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:19 PM
  #117
Static
Registered User
 
Static's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 18,737
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Static
In fact, Duck fans, why dont we entertain Jon Cheechoo as an offer for Ryan, because he's scored 56 in a season. Do we have anyone else that has SHOWN the ability to score 50 in a year? Wouldnt that be adequate enough?

Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:28 PM
  #118
Selanne138
Registered User
 
Selanne138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by X Hockeystatic X View Post
In fact, Duck fans, why dont we entertain Jon Cheechoo as an offer for Ryan, because he's scored 56 in a season. Do we have anyone else that has SHOWN the ability to score 50 in a year? Wouldnt that be adequate enough?
we can pick him up for free on free agency!!! what a dynamic duo they would be . Wed be sayin Brad Who?

Selanne138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:29 PM
  #119
91Kadri91
Registered User
 
91Kadri91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by X Hockeystatic X View Post
I'm sure we can base something around Visnovsky for Johnson, dont you think? Lubo has SHOWN the ability to be a 70 point dman, so you really have no argument bringing up his injured seasons when he clearly has shown the ability to put up huge amounts of points and play solid defense.

Is this not adequate?
He's hasn't even got 70 points in a season once in his career.

91Kadri91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:32 PM
  #120
Selanne138
Registered User
 
Selanne138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by underslept View Post
Drastic overpayment.

Selanne138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:35 PM
  #121
Force951
Registered User
 
Force951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 2,442
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Have to dig down to the actual image url with the .jpg.


Force951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:37 PM
  #122
Selanne138
Registered User
 
Selanne138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
Have to dig down to the actual image url with the .jpg.

thank you sir

Selanne138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:37 PM
  #123
Static
Registered User
 
Static's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 18,737
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Static
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
He's hasn't even got 70 points in a season once in his career.
67, close enough.

Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:38 PM
  #124
Gibsons Finest
R-E-L-A-X
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
He's hasn't even got 70 points in a season once in his career.
Sorry, 67 point defenseman then. He's also played at a 69 point pace. At the end of the day, the other poster's point remains. No one cares that Boyes hit 40 three years ago, his goal production has declined since and he's coming off a 14 goal season. His inconsistancy is also a big reason the Bruins traded him in the first place.

Not only that, it's pretty clear, he's not even close to being worth Ryan.

Gibsons Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2010, 08:44 PM
  #125
disorder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
lol Boyes really?

disorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.