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Bieksa for a Shutdown Dman

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Old
08-26-2010, 05:20 PM
  #1
carlweezer*
 
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Bieksa for a Shutdown Dman

A lot of Canuck fans wanted Bieksa traded and then sign Willie Mitchell, nothing has changed except Mitchell is no longer an option, however the Canucks are still loaded with puck-moving Dmen without a real crease clearing stay at home dman..no offence to Andrew Alberts and Shane O'brien.....this proposal is for Puck Moving Dman(Bieksa) for a Stay@ home Dman, please make it cap compliant for both sides...for example

To San Jose
Kevin Bieksa
Andrew Alberts


To Vancouver
Douglas Murray
4th rnd pick

Another idea would be if Montreal can somehow make some cap room then a trade inolving O'byrne for Bieksa can be formulated.

*other players that can be added in the trade ...Sergei Shirokov, Darcy Hordichuk, Shane O'brien, 2nd teer prospects : Prab Rai, Taylor Ellington..


propose away please...

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08-26-2010, 05:21 PM
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Spamhuis
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the players offered up are terrible.

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08-26-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlweezer View Post


Another idea would be if Montreal can somehow make some cap room then a trade inolving O'byrne for Bieksa can be formulated.
That's interessting, but Montreal have no cap space for this kind of trade.

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08-26-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
the players offered up are terrible.

Shane O'brien is not terrible, he is a top 5 dman on most teams...Shirokov also has loads of offensive potential that will entice many teams...I just dont see him being in the Canucks future plans but a team looking to stock up on offensive prospects would be interested.

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08-26-2010, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jason allison'fans View Post
That's interessting, but Montreal have no cap space for this kind of trade.
It would be difficult to trade with MTL but i think Bieksa would be a very good fit with the Habs....in fact when Hamrlik's contract ends next year I strongly feel the Habs will go after a then UFA Bieksa.

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08-26-2010, 05:27 PM
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Bieksa + 4th for Finger?

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08-26-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
Bieksa + 4th for Finger?
maybe Kurt Sauer but definitely not Jeff Finger...6'1 205...Bieksa can do what he does any day...

besides Toronto seems good and solid on D already

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08-26-2010, 05:33 PM
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denkiteki
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Originally Posted by carlweezer View Post
A lot of Canuck fans wanted Bieksa traded and then sign Willie Mitchell, nothing has changed except Mitchell is no longer an option, however the Canucks are still loaded with puck-moving Dmen without a real crease clearing stay at home dman..no offence to Andrew Alberts and Shane O'brien.....this proposal is for Puck Moving Dman(Bieksa) for a Stay@ home Dman, please make it cap compliant for both sides...for example

To San Jose
Kevin Bieksa
Andrew Alberts


To Vancouver
Douglas Murray
4th rnd pick

Another idea would be if Montreal can somehow make some cap room then a trade inolving O'byrne for Bieksa can be formulated.

*other players that can be added in the trade ...Sergei Shirokov, Darcy Hordichuk, Shane O'brien, 2nd teer prospects : Prab Rai, Taylor Ellington..


propose away please...
Actually false... everything has changed.

Mitchell was a free asset that would have likely taken a home town discount (probably the main reason LA went over the top since no hometown discount would be this big). On top of that, Bieksa would bring back assets to the organization if he was traded (as in picks and prospects). Assets that can be used later (say at deadline, next year, etc).

Bieksa being traded has nothing to do with us needing a shutdown dman in Mitchell nor having too many PMD. You make it sound like having too many PMD is a bad thing when in fact we want as many as we can get since we are a puck possession team. Also Mitchell was a fan favorite so of course fans want him back more than Bieksa.

Seems like a common theme that you make threads about the 'nucks but more often than not they don't even make any sense. Also some of the prospect you mention are NOT mid tier prospect but rather career AHLers/low tier prospects. Prab Rai and Taylor Ellington are both unlikely to ever make the NHL.

Not to mention, Mitchell is also an all world defensive player (when healthy), there are not many player that are at his level defensively. Murray is without a doubt not even close to that level and Bieksa isn't bad defensively when he's on his game. Remember he was part of the shutdown pairing for a couple seasons here.

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08-26-2010, 05:34 PM
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Beyond the logistics of tryign to complete a trade between two of the western conference's top teams (when I thought the Canucks would get Mitchell, I felt that Vancouver would take less of a return to keep Bieksa out of SJ)... something around Bieksa for Murray+ does actually make a fair bit of sense.

Sharks have bottom-pair defenceman and desparately need a guy that can log more ice time than Murray. Canucks would most likely want to shed some salary, and pick up a big body on the blueline who likes to throw it around a bit. Of their top 6 guys, the biggest is Alexander Edler at 6'3 / 215 and Sami Salo at 6'3 / 212, while Edler doesn't play anywhere near that kind of game, and neither does Salo, who's also out for half the year.

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Old
08-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Kevin Bieksa+

for

Anton Babchuk

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08-26-2010, 05:36 PM
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Don't want Bieksa (at all) and i certainly don't want Andrew Alberts on top of it. I'm not opposed to trading Murray (though DW apparently is) but what we need is a quality skating two-way defensemen or defensive defensemen who can move a puck. Bieksa can move a puck, but defense is not in his skill-set.

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08-26-2010, 05:36 PM
  #12
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Canucks don't need a "shut down" d-man...

Even without Bieksa the Canucks D is:

Hamhuis-Ehrhoff
Ballard-Edler
O'Brien-Salo
Rome-Alberts

Bieksa is either covering for Salo, or Not. We also Have Sweatt, O'Berg and Baumgartner as backups if Alberts is still... Alberts. Worse case scenario we sign a Mckee for cheap but we certainly shouldn't be looking to move Bieksa for a d-man...

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08-26-2010, 05:38 PM
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The only reason they looked at Mitchell was his potential(over Bieksa) and his "low cap hit" if he took a 1yr bonus laden contract.....meaning they could trade Bieksa and get a better defensive dman for a lot less cap hit.

Didnt happen unfortunally,so do we keep him...and eventually trade Obrien and Alberts or trade Bieksa and keep SOB and Alberts.

And no I dont think we trade him for another dman unless he is a very talented defensive prospect that could play this year or next.....and I doubt that player gets traded.

I think if Bieksa goes he will only go for a pkg of picks/prospects

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08-26-2010, 05:40 PM
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With Salo out for the majority of the season, the Canucks wont be moving Bieksa.

And we dont need a shutdown d-man.

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Old
08-26-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Canucks don't need a "shut down" d-man...

Even without Bieksa the Canucks D is:

Hamhuis-Ehrhoff
Ballard-Edler
O'Brien-Salo
Rome-Alberts

Bieksa is either covering for Salo, or Not. We also Have Sweatt, O'Berg and Baumgartner as backups if Alberts is still... Alberts. Worse case scenario we sign a Mckee for cheap but we certainly shouldn't be looking to move Bieksa for a d-man...
Salo is out for a LONG time....so if we dont trade Bieksa for a Dman we would have 2 of Alberts-Rome-Obrien in the line up...i dont feeel comfortable with that...

Lee Sweatt? this guy can be a bigger version of Patrick Columbe for all we know...cant bank on the unknowns...

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08-26-2010, 05:43 PM
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We need someone in addition to Murray not in place of. Also, last time a trade between these two teams involved a salary dump+decent d-man (and Ehrhoff was and is a hell of a lot better than Bieska) Vancouver won big time, I doubt Wilson is interested in doing that again. This is almost the exact same scenario as the Ehrhoff trade except, Bieska is worse, Alberts is worse, and Murray is worth a hell of a lot more than Pat freaking White. If a trade goes down between these two teams, expect something like Torrey Mitchell for Bieska, maybe with an extra asset (like a 3rd) going Vancouver's way. Mitchell fills the teams need a 4th line center, Bieska fills the need of top 4 d-man. Realistically, I can't see either of these two teams helping each other, and I expect Anaheim, Columbus, and Washington will all probably be willing to give up a bit more.

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08-26-2010, 05:45 PM
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Doesn't need to be a shutdown guy but I would like to see Bieksa traded for a defenseman that fits the Canucks salary structure better and is a right handed shot that can shoot.

Anton Babchuk please.

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Old
08-26-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Don't want Bieksa (at all) and i certainly don't want Andrew Alberts on top of it. I'm not opposed to trading Murray (though DW apparently is) but what we need is a quality skating two-way defensemen or defensive defensemen who can move a puck. Bieksa can move a puck, but defense is not in his skill-set.
Fair enough but who is avaliable UFA.....in Bieksa's or Souray's range...nobody

MA bergeron can put up numbers on the pp but is very very bad defending.

then the other options is a trade..who is realiticaly avaliable..not alot of choices out there.And what is the cost to get that Dman?

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08-26-2010, 05:48 PM
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What would Ken Holland do?

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08-26-2010, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
We need someone in addition to Murray not in place of. Also, last time a trade between these two teams involved a salary dump+decent d-man (and Ehrhoff was and is a hell of a lot better than Bieska) Vancouver won big time, I doubt Wilson is interested in doing that again. This is almost the exact same scenario as the Ehrhoff trade except, Bieska is worse, Alberts is worse, and Murray is worth a hell of a lot more than Pat freaking White. If a trade goes down between these two teams, expect something like Torrey Mitchell for Bieska, maybe with an extra asset (like a 3rd) going Vancouver's way. Mitchell fills the teams need a 4th line center, Bieska fills the need of top 4 d-man. Realistically, I can't see either of these two teams helping each other, and I expect Anaheim, Columbus, and Washington will all probably be willing to give up a bit more.
fair read....does SJ have a prmier dman prospect taht ca npossibly make the team.

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08-26-2010, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Actually false... everything has changed.

Mitchell was a free asset that would have likely taken a home town discount (probably the main reason LA went over the top since no hometown discount would be this big). On top of that, Bieksa would bring back assets to the organization if he was traded (as in picks and prospects). Assets that can be used later (say at deadline, next year, etc).

Bieksa being traded has nothing to do with us needing a shutdown dman in Mitchell nor having too many PMD. You make it sound like having too many PMD is a bad thing when in fact we want as many as we can get since we are a puck possession team. Also Mitchell was a fan favorite so of course fans want him back more than Bieksa.

Seems like a common theme that you make threads about the 'nucks but more often than not they don't even make any sense. Also some of the prospect you mention are NOT mid tier prospect but rather career AHLers/low tier prospects. Prab Rai and Taylor Ellington are both unlikely to ever make the NHL.
Not to mention, Mitchell is also an all world defensive player (when healthy), there are not many player that are at his level defensively. Murray is without a doubt not even close to that level and Bieksa isn't bad defensively when he's on his game. Remember he was part of the shutdown pairing for a couple seasons here.
Free Asset? I know what you are trying to say but you have to realize that he would have taken up somebody's spot on the roster and on the cap space..so there is no such thing as a FREE ASSEt....if Mitchell was signed then we could kiss Bieksa anbd Obrien Goodbye...


Never make the NHL??? i didnt know you knew more than the Canuck scouting staff who drafted these players....and if a guy like Alex Burrows who was never drafted and was on the ECHL to do what he does in the NHL, pesimistic guys like you are a waste of time...

Canucks dont need a Shut-Down Crease Clearing Dman? really? Sure Byfuglien is gone but you remember how he tore us up right? and what happens if we meet Detroit in the playoffs? who is going to handle Holmstrom or Franzen?..wait we have puck moving Dmen so we can just play keep away and not let them touch the puck!

Thornton
Bickell
Brouwer
Backes
Handzus
Brown
Getlaf

just to name a few players who will stand in front of the net and crash the next at any expense to rattle and score on Luongo....no team can have too many Shut Down dmen...

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08-26-2010, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by carlweezer View Post
Free Asset? I know what you are trying to say but you have to realize that he would have taken up somebody's spot on the roster and on the cap space..so there is no such thing as a FREE ASSEt....if Mitchell was signed then we could kiss Bieksa anbd Obrien Goodbye...


Never make the NHL??? i didnt know you knew more than the Canuck scouting staff who drafted these players....and if a guy like Alex Burrows who was never drafted and was on the ECHL to do what he does in the NHL, pesimistic guys like you are a waste of time...

Canucks dont need a Shut-Down Crease Clearing Dman? really? Sure Byfuglien is gone but you remember how he tore us up right? and what happens if we meet Detroit in the playoffs? who is going to handle Holmstrom or Franzen?..wait we have puck moving Dmen so we can just play keep away and not let them touch the puck!

Thornton
Bickell
Brouwer
Backes
Handzus
Brown
Getlaf

just to name a few players who will stand in front of the net and crash the next at any expense to rattle and score on Luongo....no team can have too many Shut Down dmen...
But to get a primier shutdown man 3.5-4 mil range for the price of a 1.5 cap hit + bonuses..would have been a "free asset" in a way.otherwise it is probaly more of a sideways move in trading Bieksa for a cheaper shutdown type of guy.Do they maybe hope SAuve can acheive that and is also avalible as a recall,and can be sent down as needed to Manitoba?

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08-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
We need someone in addition to Murray not in place of. Also, last time a trade between these two teams involved a salary dump+decent d-man (and Ehrhoff was and is a hell of a lot better than Bieska) Vancouver won big time, I doubt Wilson is interested in doing that again. This is almost the exact same scenario as the Ehrhoff trade except, Bieska is worse, Alberts is worse, and Murray is worth a hell of a lot more than Pat freaking White. If a trade goes down between these two teams, expect something like Torrey Mitchell for Bieska, maybe with an extra asset (like a 3rd) going Vancouver's way. Mitchell fills the teams need a 4th line center, Bieska fills the need of top 4 d-man. Realistically, I can't see either of these two teams helping each other, and I expect Anaheim, Columbus, and Washington will all probably be willing to give up a bit more.
I agree..although i dont see the urgent need for a 4th line centre ...Mario Bliznak is someone that can surprise, he has been taught by Don Hay and Scott Arneil who have instilled a 2way game in him...very responsible defensively...

Also Joel Perrault will impress and surprice alot of Vancouver fans..he is 6'2 and can skater well..has been almost a PPG player in the NHL the last 2 seasons..

then there is also Rick Rypien...tough as nails and very reliable...

so those are 3 4th line centres we have on the team that can play without having to trade Bieksa......

Top 4 dman for a 4th line centre is a trade that almost never happens in the NHL

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Old
08-26-2010, 05:58 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Fair enough but who is avaliable UFA.....in Bieksa's or Souray's range...nobody

MA bergeron can put up numbers on the pp but is very very bad defending.

then the other options is a trade..who is realiticaly avaliable..not alot of choices out there.And what is the cost to get that Dman?
Fact is, we have no idea. So it's hard to speculate. I'd rather get no-one then the wrong-one. Bieksa is not what the Sharks need. In fantasy land, I'd prefer a guy like Liles, Burns, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
fair read....does SJ have a prmier dman prospect taht ca npossibly make the team.
Premier? I don't know about that, but we have a group of guys with a real shot in: Joslin, Moore, Schaus, Doherty, and Irwin. I'm personally most excited about Doherty, as are most Sharks fans. Kids as big as Chara, and his absolutely sky rocketed in his development recently. Petrecki is our 'premier' prospect, but he's a few years off.

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08-26-2010, 06:01 PM
  #25
matt trick
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Fair enough but who is avaliable UFA.....in Bieksa's or Souray's range...nobody

MA bergeron can put up numbers on the pp but is very very bad defending.

then the other options is a trade..who is realiticaly avaliable..not alot of choices out there.And what is the cost to get that Dman?
I think most Sharks fans are willing to go into the season with Boyle-Murray-Vlasic-Wallin-Huskins-Demers. It is far, far from perfect, but a single acquisition and all the sudden it looks pretty decent. Boyle is a good #1, Vlasic and Murray are solid as the #3 and #4. Huskins and Wallin are capable bottom pairing guys (I actually think Huskins is perfect, albeit overpaid, in that role), and Demers has exceptional potential as puck-mover, but for now, he is not someone you don't want much higher up than five or six with loads of PP time. Wilson has already shown his hand that for a young top 4 d-man, he has no problem giving up his 1st and 3rd.

There are a host of players that can slide into that top 4 spot, even if it is as a player that plays behind Vlasic and Murray. There will be a top 4 d-man available at the deadline and I bet Wilson acquires one than, probably earlier. All of Francois Beauchmein, Trevor Daley, Ian White, James Wiznewski, Eric Brewer, John Michael Liles, Barret Jackman, Sheldon Souray, Matt Carle, Jan Hejda, Fedor Tyutin, Johny Oduya, Butler/Sekera and probably 15 others meet our needs. Maybe only one or two of those players are available, maybe none are, but I expect Doug will bring one in. Come trade deadline with no other acquisitions to the current roster it is feasible that we have 7 million in cap space, and could acquire two of the above if Doug feels it is necessary, but we only need one.

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