Why not settle this on the NHL talk boards with a poll. Just have fans who don't support either team vote. See what everyone else thinks. Though I think its pretty obvious.
Our third pairing was so bad we couldn't put them out there with out getting pinned down in our own zone and giving up multiple scoring chances. It forced us to play Pronger and Timonen over 28 minutes and forced Coburn and Carle to play similar time. Pronger and Timonen were clearly getting worn down. Being able to cycle 3 effective pairings will take their time down by at least 4 minutes for Pronger and Timonen and even more for the others. At worst we can role 5 d which is far better then the 4 from last play-offs.
For the roles they are playing, their top 2 D and their bottom 2 D are real nice. I think their 3 and 4 aren't at the same standard relative to their roles. I'd definitely much rather have Orpik than say Coburn or Carle but obviously Pronger and Timmonen, to whatever degree they can stay healthy and keep their games at the same level, are great as your #1 and #2 defenseman. It remains to be seen how well they will hold up, Pronger is recovering from surgery right now and has taken as a lot of damage and seen a lot of miles over his career and after a long run like they just experiences you have to wonder how much gas is left in the tank.
Last edited by Codependent: 08-27-2010 at 04:27 PM.
For the roles they are playing, their top 2 D and their bottom 2 D are real nice. I think their 3 and 4 aren't at the same standard relative to their roles. I'd definitely much rather have Orpik than say Coburn or Carle but obviously Pronger and Timmonen, to whatever degree they can stay healthy and keep their games at the same level, are a great first pairing. It remains to be seen how well they will hold up, Pronger is recovering from surgery right now and has taken as a lot of damage and seen a lot of miles over his career and after a long run like they just experiences you have to wonder how much gas is left in the tank.
His games less based on skating ability and more on thinking. Worse case scenario he becomes a better version of Hatcher, who despite draining both his knees, and getting a full knee replacement the day after retiring, was very effective as a number 3 and PK specialist. (Knocks on wood)
For the roles they are playing, their top 2 D and their bottom 2 D are real nice. I think their 3 and 4 aren't at the same standard relative to their roles. I'd definitely much rather have Orpik than say Coburn or Carle but obviously Pronger and Timmonen, to whatever degree they can stay healthy and keep their games at the same level, are a great first pairing. It remains to be seen how well they will hold up, Pronger is recovering from surgery right now and has taken as a lot of damage and seen a lot of miles over his career and after a long run like they just experiences you have to wonder how much gas is left in the tank.
On the whole, sure, Leighton takes most of blame but all of it? That was a whole lot of goals.
the third pairing was a weakness, but they got almost zero support from Leighton. he let in a few really weak goals, especially the game 6 OT winner, where Timonen did his job and Leighton blew it.
Point being that they are the Flyers top defenseman and much better in the roles they are asked to play and the minutes they are asked to log than Coburn and Carle.
Point being that they are the Flyers top defenseman and much better in the roles they are asked to play and the minutes they are asked to log than Coburn and Carle.
do you know how many minutes coburn and carle averaged? Coburn and Carle are not top pairing guys who can anchor the top pair. Nor are hey asked too. They are compliemntary players. Hence they play their role fine. I am not even huge coburn or carle fan either. You would take Orpik over coburn, fine that is your opinion. I really dont know what pooint your really trying to get at or trying to make.
do you know how many minutes coburn and carle averaged? Coburn and Carle are not top pairing guys who can anchor the top pair. Nor are hey asked too. They are compliemntary players. Hence they play their role fine. I am not even huge coburn or carle fan either. You would take Orpik over coburn, fine that is your opinion. I really dont know what pooint your really trying to get at or trying to make.
These are all opinions, thats primarily what a board like this consists of. My point is simple, Coburn and Carle aren't really that amazing, its not that confusing, there are other better #3 and #4 defenseman, therefore the strength in the Flyers depth chart is their #1, 2, 5 and 6 defenseman
These are all opinions, thats primarily what a board like this consists of. My point is simple, Coburn and Carle aren't really that amazing, its not that confusing, there are other better #3 and #4 defenseman, therefore the strength in the Flyers depth chart is their #1, 2, 5 and 6 defenseman
No one said their that amazing. Who has a better top 4 than the flyers in your opinion? they both play there role. No the flyers strength is in their top 6. To say otherwise is silly. On what teams would those 2 not be in the top 4?
What isn't irrelevant is now having three pairs that, for better or worse in regard to the team's depth elsewhere and the salary cap, can each play 20 minutes a night.
Point being that they are the Flyers top defenseman and much better in the roles they are asked to play and the minutes they are asked to log than Coburn and Carle.
...point being Carle and Coburn getting to play with Pronger and Timonen (as opposed to someone else) makes 'em a lot better than they actually are. That's why alpha dog D are so damn important in this league, they can carry a pairing with a weaker guy next to 'em.
the problem with the flyer defense will be age. both pronger and timonem will both be 36 yrs old. pronger is coming off surgery and timonem is physically drained. both played long season and played too many minutes. it will be difficult for them to repeat last year. at their age players are declining and are not getting better.
the eagles i believe have the correct theory in not signing players over 30. they have not been wrong for the most part. you need to build your team with players on the upside of careers. i can see both players having subpar seasons and with the salary cap dollars locked in these players and no top line defensive prospects, the defense this year could be ugly. add a lack of quality goaltending and the season could be twice as ugly
the problem with the flyer defense will be age. both pronger and timonem will both be 36 yrs old. pronger is coming off surgery and timonem is physically drained. both played long season and played too many minutes. it will be difficult for them to repeat last year. at their age players are declining and are not getting better.
the eagles i believe have the correct theory in not signing players over 30. they have not been wrong for the most part. you need to build your team with players on the upside of careers. i can see both players having subpar seasons and with the salary cap dollars locked in these players and no top line defensive prospects, the defense this year could be ugly. add a lack of quality goaltending and the season could be twice as ugly
Pronger and Timonen will both play reduced minutes this year. The goal will be to keep them a fresh as possible for the play offs. Carle, Coburn, and Meszaros should all improve and fill in drop off in the play of Pronger and Timonen. At the same time I don't expect any drop off from Pronger or Timonen, at least not for another two seasons. The Flyers are in a good situation as far a defense goes. They lack a future No. 1 but have 3 players all capable of being solid #2's. There is a very good combination of young and old. By the time the veterans are starting to decline, the young should be stepping up and taking over for a lot of the slack.
Last edited by ArmchairGM: 08-27-2010 at 06:40 PM.
the problem with the flyer defense will be age. both pronger and timonem will both be 36 yrs old. pronger is coming off surgery and timonem is physically drained. both played long season and played too many minutes. it will be difficult for them to repeat last year. at their age players are declining and are not getting better.
That really isn't that old for D at that level in the NHL...
Quote:
the eagles i believe have the correct theory in not signing players over 30. they have not been wrong for the most part. you need to build your team with players on the upside of careers. i can see both players having subpar seasons and with the salary cap dollars locked in these players and no top line defensive prospects, the defense this year could be ugly. add a lack of quality goaltending and the season could be twice as ugly
NFL is a completely different sport.
However, you're right to note that 30 is an important age... but it isn't "over the hill" for elite level D by any stretch of the imagination. Different story for forwards.
