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R.I.P. Season Tickets?

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Old
09-13-2010, 02:47 PM
  #1
Dave is a killer
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R.I.P. Season Tickets?

Great article by Darren Rovell

Quote:
Season tickets donít have the value they once did and itís not because people are busier and canít go to all the games. Itís because the secondary market has allowed people to compare what they are paying to the actual market value of the ticket. And when they do, they find out that Ė even as season ticket holders ó theyíre at least approaching a breakeven point as compared to the secondary market.

Let me show you what I mean.

Letís say you are a Chicago Bears season ticket holder. You paid for a $3,500 personal seat license for the right to pay $105 a game to sit in section 436. Weíll be generous and spread out the cost of that PSL over 10 years, so itís only $350 a year. That brings the real price of your ticket to $140 a game.

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Old
09-13-2010, 02:51 PM
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SensFan26
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So are they considering getting rid of them or are they just selling less?

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Old
09-13-2010, 03:05 PM
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Buck Aki Berg
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Originally Posted by SensFan26 View Post
So are they considering getting rid of them or are they just selling less?
Maybe click the link and find out..

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Old
09-13-2010, 03:08 PM
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Confucius
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I guess it still boils down to what city you're talking about. It doesn't hold true everywhere.

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Old
09-13-2010, 03:19 PM
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SENSfreak_03
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His math confuses me, someone want to explain this to me.

Quote:
That brings the real price of your ticket to $140 a game.

We took at look at the prices of the tickets being sold in this section on the NFL’s official ticket exchange. Tickets in this section were, on average, being sold for in between $200 and $250.

How valuable are season tickets now? Miss one game and you could have bought the whole season on the secondary ticket marketplace at a price lower than what you paid as a season ticket holder.

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Old
09-13-2010, 03:20 PM
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Tommy Hawk
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The guy is not a math major as he is totally wrong.

10 games (8 reg, 2 pre), 140 per game is $1,400

He states "Miss one game and you could have bought the whole season on the secondary ticket marketplace at a price lower than what you paid as a season ticket holder"

So, 9 games at his price of $200 to $250 per ticket is between $1,800 and $2,250. Both these values are more than the $1,400 you paid for the entire season.Basically, at $200 per seat you get 3-4 free games compared to ticket exchange price (7 * $200 or 6* $250 vs. 10 * $140).

That also does not include any parking discounts.

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Old
09-13-2010, 03:21 PM
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mouser
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I'm not getting his math:

Quote:
Letís say you are a Chicago Bears season ticket holder. You paid for a $3,500 personal seat license for the right to pay $105 a game to sit in section 436. Weíll be generous and spread out the cost of that PSL over 10 years, so itís only $350 a year. That brings the real price of your ticket to $140 a game.

We took at look at the prices of the tickets being sold in this section on the NFLís official ticket exchange. Tickets in this section were, on average, being sold for in between $200 and $250.

How valuable are season tickets now? Miss one game and you could have bought the whole season on the secondary ticket marketplace at a price lower than what you paid as a season ticket holder.
$350 + 10 games * $105 = $1400 [2 preseason - 8 regular season]
$1400/$250 = 5.6 games
$1400/$225 = 6.2 games
$1400/$200 = 7 games

If you could sell that one game you missed for $200 - $250 wouldn't you be even better off?

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:51 PM
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As you guys have mentioned, his math doesn't make any sense.

If anything, his article provides strong reasoning for BUYING season tickets if you're planning on only going to some of the games - you get a cheaper per game ticket price, and can resell your tickets to the games you dont go to for a significant profit.

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Old
09-15-2010, 10:29 PM
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As always, it is easier to unload games you can't make when the team is wining. If the team is not winning, it is harder to unload games.

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Old
09-16-2010, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessebelanger View Post
As you guys have mentioned, his math doesn't make any sense.

If anything, his article provides strong reasoning for BUYING season tickets if you're planning on only going to some of the games - you get a cheaper per game ticket price, and can resell your tickets to the games you dont go to for a significant profit.
The problem is buying the preseason games no one wants. If you miss one regular season game I think is the guy's point and not go to the pre season ones.

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Old
09-16-2010, 09:44 PM
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Furkmyster
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All of you guys must have failed math in school.

$3500 seat license is what you pay for being able to have your seat, a one time fee many NFL teams now have. The author is suggesting you spread this seat license fee out over 10 years, working it out to $350 per year, or for the 10 games, $35 a game. Take the $105 ticket + $35 seat license thingy, you get $140.

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Old
09-16-2010, 10:27 PM
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guyincognito
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the seat license really should be for 25-30 years. if it's for 10 years, you've built the crappiest new stadium/arena known to man.

the thing he doesn't mention is that you can also sell said seat license anytime you choose. of course, as long as there's demand.

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Old
09-16-2010, 11:26 PM
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mouser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furkmyster View Post
All of you guys must have failed math in school.

$3500 seat license is what you pay for being able to have your seat, a one time fee many NFL teams now have. The author is suggesting you spread this seat license fee out over 10 years, working it out to $350 per year, or for the 10 games, $35 a game. Take the $105 ticket + $35 seat license thingy, you get $140.
I think all the responses grokked that part. The questions were about why the author proposed it would be cheaper to buy tickets at $200 - $250 each as an alternative.

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Old
09-17-2010, 08:45 AM
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Furkmyster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
I think all the responses grokked that part. The questions were about why the author proposed it would be cheaper to buy tickets at $200 - $250 each as an alternative.
I am guessing the author assumes season ticket holders only attend 2 or 3 games a year, which is a very bad assumption. What offends me the most is the whole seat license idea the NFL has.

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessebelanger View Post
As you guys have mentioned, his math doesn't make any sense.

If anything, his article provides strong reasoning for BUYING season tickets if you're planning on only going to some of the games - you get a cheaper per game ticket price, and can resell your tickets to the games you dont go to for a significant profit.
actually no. You still are paying for the games you don't attend. If you go to all of them, then you realize the per game discount. Miss a game or too, then you are screwed....

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furkmyster View Post
I am guessing the author assumes season ticket holders only attend 2 or 3 games a year, which is a very bad assumption. What offends me the most is the whole seat license idea the NFL has.
Another revenue stream. If you have a popular team, they can make a killing off of this. The Steelers do this, but the Pens do not. It's just a question on how bad you want to fleece your fan base....

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
the seat license really should be for 25-30 years. if it's for 10 years, you've built the crappiest new stadium/arena known to man.

the thing he doesn't mention is that you can also sell said seat license anytime you choose. of course, as long as there's demand.
it's legalized gouging regardless

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
actually no. You still are paying for the games you don't attend. If you go to all of them, then you realize the per game discount. Miss a game or too, then you are screwed....
You're screwed if you're the kind of idiot that can't figure out how to sell his unused tickets.

Newsflash: if you buy a single game ticket and miss that game, you're also screwed.

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:11 AM
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edog37
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
You're screwed if you're the kind of idiot that can't figure out how to sell his unused tickets.

Newsflash: if you buy a single game ticket and miss that game, you're also screwed.
gee, you think....

I was responding to the poster's assertion about the math of it. Using the NFL is a bad example since you are talking significantly less games than the NHL. If I can't unload my tickets for a Pens game, it's still okay vs if I can't get rid of my Steelers tickets for one game....

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Old
09-17-2010, 11:17 AM
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rj
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$105/game * 10 games (preseason and regular) = $1050

say the PSL is over 20 years = $3500 / 20 years = $175/year amortized

Total cost per season accounting for the PSL = $1225

Since people only really buy season tickets for the 8 regular season games and can care less about the preseason: $1225 / 8 games = $153.12 / regular season game actual cost, accounting for the PSL and discounting the preseason games you paid for.

So $105 listed face value vs. $153.12.

Whether you go or not, you're not going to get much if any money for your preseason tickets.

If it's week 12 and your team is 4-7 playing a team not good with no fanbase like the 3-8 Arizona Cardinals, you're probably not going to get face value.

There are some games where you can get more than face value if you want. And if the team is awesome you can probably offload any game you want. But if the team sucks or plays teams with small fanbases, you're going to eat some of the cost most of the time. So I consider that a wash. If you sell your tickets for face value, you're still paying the cost of the PSL and the preseason games as part of your ticket price, so you lose money there too.

If you don't go to a game and don't sell your ticket, all you did was just save yourself the cost of parking.

On an NHL season ticket you're theoretically paying the same to watch the Red Wings on a Saturday night as you are the Coyotes on a Tuesday night. Yet good luck selling that last one anywhere near face value unless your team is almost always a sellout. However in the NHL you're talking 2.4% of the season being one game vs. 12.5% of the season in the NFL.


And all this leads to the point of the NFL is as popular as ever as shown by TV ratings for Week 1, and ticket sales are down.

Quote:
What is certain is that the depletion of the season ticket base is a reality and teams — especially NFL teams who rely on season ticket sales more than any other league — who are slow to evolve will pay for it later.
I always thought the NHL had the largest percentage revenue based on gate?


Last edited by rj: 09-17-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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Old
09-17-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
gee, you think....

I was responding to the poster's assertion about the math of it. Using the NFL is a bad example since you are talking significantly less games than the NHL. If I can't unload my tickets for a Pens game, it's still okay vs if I can't get rid of my Steelers tickets for one game....
I'm not sure you understood my post.

My point was one can realize the discount of season tickets and sell any games you don't play on attending for a profit. Which I thought was pretty clear with:

Quote:
and can resell your tickets to the games you dont go to for a significant profit.


The math in the article is off unless there is something all of us are missing. I am thinking his point *may* have been that you could buy single game tickets on the secondary market for cheaper then $140 dollars a pop, but he did not directly make that claim or provide any data to back that up. The only data he provided suggested the secondary market is more expensive.

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Old
09-17-2010, 05:28 PM
  #22
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I've had Flames season tickets for a while now.

My ticket prices have increased every year.

When I asked Ken King why, he said the Flames have 4000 people on the ST waiting list.

The author makes a good point about HDTV.

I think I have a better time watching the game with my friends at home than going to the game.

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