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Part XI: Phx Coyotes - Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected...

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08-27-2010, 08:16 PM
  #26
roccerfeller
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Damn. This is some legit stuff. It seems Monday and Tuesday will be interesting days, as Tuesday is the day CoG will have a meeting correct?

I think if you check http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen...utes/index.cfm they have a meeting scheduled. The last one was 6/22.

But if you read their agenda for that day, I see nothing of the NHL. Err...

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08-27-2010, 08:20 PM
  #27
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I wouldnt expect IEH to go out burning bridges with the NHL or Phoenix. Their savvier than that. Sorority Boys' dont say #@&+ if their mouths are full of it. Dont expect any fireworks.
This from the same guy who tweeting his witticisms about the Phoenix situation? I am not saying he will, just wouldn't surprise me-if there are bridges to be burned, I suspect his tweets are done their damage IMO.

Having said that, perhaps he won't, I'm just meaning it wouldn't surprise me that's all

EDIT: At this point, really, who knows what he's going to say, I just honestly don't know any more

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08-27-2010, 08:28 PM
  #28
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I wouldnt expect IEH to go out burning bridges with the NHL or Phoenix. Their savvier than that. Sorority Boys' dont say #@&+ if their mouths are full of it. Dont expect any fireworks.
it has always amazed me in the past how the 'move along, nothing to see here' vibe comes across when any of these players are seen in pubic.

at each of the council meetings every one of them acted as if everything was normal and that it was all mere formality ahead....to suggest otherwise would be outrageous.

i expect the same at next week's press conference.....they might announce that they are out, but something tells me that we will be watching the ball drop in times square and still be talking about Ice Edge and Reinsdorf.

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08-27-2010, 08:43 PM
  #29
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I see nothing of the NHL. Err...
Thx for posting that, & me neither. They had that meeting in-camera on the 22nd, & I guess we were hoping some news or an update would be forthcoming on the 31st, the first public session since Junes summer break. Their is a really serious disconnect going on here.

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08-27-2010, 08:46 PM
  #30
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Sorry, must have missed something in my previous reading of the article. Was anything new noted? My rep already told me that there were about 4k season tix sold, not bad given the uncertainty.

I don't believe in circumstance. Either IEH, Reinsdorf or the NHL had a hand in putting out this rehashed story in order to put a little more pressure on the COG. We all know that this will be settled, one way or the other, at the last possible moment.

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08-27-2010, 08:50 PM
  #31
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^ At this junction, it could go either way. But come next week we might have a better idea as to whats happening; which side it is leaning on.

cute dog btw

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08-27-2010, 08:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Sorry, must have missed something in my previous reading of the article. Was anything new noted? My rep already told me that there were about 4k season tix sold, not bad given the uncertainty.

I don't believe in circumstance. Either IEH, Reinsdorf or the NHL had a hand in putting out this rehashed story in order to put a little more pressure on the COG. We all know that this will be settled, one way or the other, at the last possible moment.
In the article not so much, but we've been discussing a couple more "witty" tweets from Jones from yesterday, as seen earlier in this thread, and really wondering if he's serious at all about the whole thing.

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08-27-2010, 08:55 PM
  #33
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Sorry, must have missed something in my previous reading of the article. Was anything new noted? My rep already told me that there were about 4k season tix sold, not bad given the uncertainty.

I don't believe in circumstance. Either IEH, Reinsdorf or the NHL had a hand in putting out this rehashed story in order to put a little more pressure on the COG. We all know that this will be settled, one way or the other, at the last possible moment.
But how will you know when the last possible moment arrives? Maybe it already did, and we didn't know it. What I mean to say is that either a new owner steps forward to buy the team and keep the team in Glendale, or the NHL has to relocate. So I would define the "last possible moment" as the time when the last potential owner decides that he/she is not interested in buying the team. Everything that happens after that is just drama. Winnipeggers found that out 15 years ago. Once the Jets' ownership group had decided to bail and everybody who might have rescued the team had decided that they couldn't or wouldn't it was all over, except the shouting. Fans just didn't know (or accept) that it was over until it was finally announced.

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08-27-2010, 09:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Sorry, must have missed something in my previous reading of the article. Was anything new noted? My rep already told me that there were about 4k season tix sold, not bad given the uncertainty.

I don't believe in circumstance. Either IEH, Reinsdorf or the NHL had a hand in putting out this rehashed story in order to put a little more pressure on the COG. We all know that this will be settled, one way or the other, at the last possible moment.
thats 4 thousand TOTAL ST's and 1/4 of ALL suites sold. not bad???
thats HORRID!, especially for a club in such a precarious situation.
sorry scott, it dont look good.

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08-27-2010, 09:07 PM
  #35
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Did I miss something here, or is Scott Burns' using antiquated information?. In the article, he claims negotiations stalled because IE required the COG guarantee the Parking Revenues/CFD. We talked about this at length right here & I understood that demand had been dropped. Yes?. Secondly, he places the onus of fault on Glendales shoulders without a word about IEH's fiscal shortcomings pursuant to their TermSheets' no?...

As for only 4000 ST's sold?. Blame the NHL. They failed to capitalize on the teams success & have been abrogating their responsibilities in doing the best job possible in marketing the team & filling the arena with non-hockey events. As interim stewards, pathetic. Do they REALLY want to sell locally?. Minimal & confused efforts, keeping the building & fans in the dark?. Creating excitement & enthusiasm?. Working with Glendale & potential buyers?.

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08-27-2010, 09:17 PM
  #36
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^ you really blame the 29 other owners for not aggressively marketing the team they collectively own in phoenix?.....at what point do the people of phoenix take some blame for the lack of support?

its always someone else's fault.....they finished 4th overall.....that should be more than enough.....if there has been a failure to capitalize on their success, the blame has to go to the market which seems to be so weak that after all this time no owner is willing to put his money down and run the team.

you cant blame the league for not spending their own money as caretakers, you cant blame glendale for not capitulating on hand outs and you cant blame any potential owner for not risking his own money.....the uncertainty with the franchise all boils down to the disinterested market.....if it had any sign of potential there would be no uncertainty.


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08-27-2010, 09:22 PM
  #37
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Did I miss something here, or is Scott Burns' using antiquated information?. In the article, he claims negotiations stalled because IE required the COG guarantee the Parking Revenues/CFD. We talked about this at length right here & I understood that demand had been dropped. Yes?. Secondly, he places the onus of fault on Glendales shoulders without a word about IEH's fiscal shortcomings pursuant to their TermSheets' no?...

As for only 4000 ST's sold?. Blame the NHL. They failed to capitalize on the teams success & have been abrogating their responsibilities in doing the best job possible in marketing the team & filling the arena with non-hockey events. As interim stewards, pathetic. Do they REALLY want to sell locally?. Minimal & confused efforts, keeping the building & fans in the dark?. Creating excitement & enthusiasm?. Working with Glendale & potential buyers?.
Killion, I agree that this is a bit harsh on Glendale. As I mentioned in another thread, there is really only so much that Glendale can do, because they can't actually provide any subsidies themselves. They are really dependent on Westgate business owners being willing and able to sign on to a CFD that generates a very large revenue stream for a new owner. IEH was asking Glendale to do what Glendale had already told them that they couldn't; guarantee the CFD revenues to pay back the bank loan for the purchase. Glendale was perfectly willing to sign on to Reinsdorf's MOU (unanimously, if I recall), but they can't control the willingness of businesses to sign on to the CFD that would support his deal. My speculation is that is what cratered Reinsdorf's deal. Despite their motivation, I am not really sure what more Glendale can be expected to do to convince an owner to buy the team. They have pretty much exhausted their options, haven't they? They now need help, in some combination of the following:

1) NHL dropping the asking price significantly (I can't see this happening).
2) Westgate businesses signing on to a CFD that generates a ton of revenue to subsidize a new owner (presumably they have been trying to do this).
3) A new ownership group willing to take a much bigger risk than Reinsdorf is (which is why they spent so much time and effort with IEH).

There is one thing that Glendale might be able to do to sweeten the pot. That would be to give a bona fide "out clause" to the lease within the next 3-5 years. If they did that, you might see a flock of potential groups come into the fray, but most of them would almost certainly be buying the team with the intention of moving it in the near future. I doubt that the NHL would like that very much because it would make the relocation process much less predictable for them.

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08-27-2010, 09:25 PM
  #38
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In the article, he claims negotiations stalled because IE required the COG guarantee the Parking Revenues/CFD. ?.
i read that as new information....the $7.5m is in the latest MOU and i conclude from his comment that the current stall is due in part to the fact that Ice Edge want that money guaranteed and the city is balking...

the last time this guarantee was discussed was before the reinsdorf MOU but the chronology of his comments is saying that this issue is after that....leading me to conclude that it is current.


to me all of these points are new information from a credible source....forgiving what a sales guy may have said to scottrocks...the last point perhaps being the most important.

- season-ticket sales have topped out at about 4,000

- one-quarter of the 87 suites at Jobing.com Arena have been sold

- The city has thus far balked at guaranteeing up to $7.5 million annually, explaining it doesn't want to endanger the city's credit rating.

- Ice Edge Holdings group -- the only viable contender to buy the team regardless of rumors to the contrary

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08-27-2010, 09:30 PM
  #39
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you cant blame the league for not spending their own money as caretakers, you cant blame glendale for not capitulating on hand outs and you cant blame any potential owner for not risking their own money.....the uncertainty with the franchise all boils down to the disinterested market.....if it had any sign of potential there would be no ownership uncertainty.
Sure I can (blame the league), and plenty do. Im not looking for Glendale to capitulate, their hands are tied (ya, by a really really dumb move in the first place). And your absolutely correct, no (potential owner) one will risk $170M+++ on this franchise in these market conditions, so I dont blame them (whoever they might be?). I blame the NHL. I dont blame 29 "other teams & owners". I dont blame the people of Phoenix nor the fans of the team. I blame the NHL peter.
Savvy?...

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08-27-2010, 09:31 PM
  #40
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Longest running "thread" in HF boards history?

EDIT: Thread on one subject I mean, not the blanket of "OT PART 3O" threads that seem to be on every team's boards...
Well, the whole Lockout was like one giant BoH thread.

The current Kovy series - about 12 threads of Kovy signs with the Devils speculation, followed by about 10 threads of the SPC rejection and arbitration, followed by 4 threads and counting of what happens next - may come close.

The whole Sundin UFA sign soap opera may also be a contender.

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08-27-2010, 09:34 PM
  #41
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thats 4 thousand TOTAL ST's and 1/4 of ALL suites sold. not bad???
thats HORRID!, especially for a club in such a precarious situation.
sorry scott, it dont look good.
Surely, you jest. Expectations that, while still under threat of relocation, people and corporations will come flocking to the team are unrealistic at best, disingenuous at worst.

Ownership must be settled and people and industry assured that the Coyotes are no longer under threat of relocation for them to show money and emotional involvement to the team.

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08-27-2010, 09:35 PM
  #42
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Sure I can (blame the league), and plenty do. Im not looking for Glendale to capitulate, their hands are tied (ya, by a really really dumb move in the first place). And your absolutely correct, no (potential owner) one will risk $170M+++ on this franchise in these market conditions, so I dont blame them (whoever they might be?). I blame the NHL. I dont blame 29 "other teams & owners". I dont blame the people of Phoenix nor the fans of the team. I blame the NHL peter.
Savvy?...
what should the NHL be doing in your opinion?

how could they be working with potential buyers?...doing what exactly?...taking minutes in the meetings?...the negotiations are between the city and potential owners.

how could they not keep fans in the dark?....what would they be saying?...a play by play of the council meetings?

how could they create excitement and enthusiasm?...inflatable tube men on the freeway?

i really fail to see how it is the NHL's responsibility to spend other owner's money investing in this market.

the team is teetering on the brink and needs support now more than ever....claiming that 4000 tickets and 1/4 of the suites isnt bad is ludicrous...how could it be worse?.....so much for all the sell outs last year as proof of a great market....3 months later and its nothing but crickets.

i dont blame the fans...i blame the 4 million people in phoenix who are not fans.


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08-27-2010, 09:37 PM
  #43
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Did I miss something here, or is Scott Burns' using antiquated information?. In the article, he claims negotiations stalled because IE required the COG guarantee the Parking Revenues/CFD. We talked about this at length right here & I understood that demand had been dropped. Yes?. Secondly, he places the onus of fault on Glendales shoulders without a word about IEH's fiscal shortcomings pursuant to their TermSheets' no?...

As for only 4000 ST's sold?. Blame the NHL. They failed to capitalize on the teams success & have been abrogating their responsibilities in doing the best job possible in marketing the team & filling the arena with non-hockey events. As interim stewards, pathetic. Do they REALLY want to sell locally?. Minimal & confused efforts, keeping the building & fans in the dark?. Creating excitement & enthusiasm?. Working with Glendale & potential buyers?.
Perhaps a more ominous question with respect to Burnside's article is that it appears that the knives are coming out. There was some pretty harsh language directed at Glendale from "sources". Those "sources" are presumably either from ownership groups (hello IEH), or the NHL. If it is the NHL that is starting to discredit the City of Glendale behind the scenes, then this is not good at all for the Coyotes.

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08-27-2010, 09:38 PM
  #44
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Surely, you jest. Expectations that, while still under threat of relocation, people and corporations will come flocking to the team is unrealistic at best, disingenuous at worst.

Ownership must be settled and people and industry assured that the Coyotes are no longer under threat of relocation for them to show money and emotional involvement to the team.
and what happens when the yotes stumble and lose the first 10? not saying they will but you understand my meaning. the longer the fans stay away the more you plunge the knife and twist.
not a healthy way to show you care is it?

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08-27-2010, 09:39 PM
  #45
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^ you really blame the 29 other owners for not aggressively marketing the team they collectively own in phoenix?.....at what point do the people of phoenix take some blame for the lack of support?

its always someone else's fault.....they finished 4th overall.....that should be more than enough.....if there has been a failure to capitalize on their success, the blame has to go to the market which seems to be so weak that after all this time no owner is willing to put his money down and run the team.

you cant blame the league for not spending their own money as caretakers, you cant blame glendale for not capitulating on hand outs and you cant blame any potential owner for not risking his own money.....the uncertainty with the franchise all boils down to the disinterested market.....if it had any sign of potential there would be no uncertainty.
Why not? It's what every individual owner has to do, and what Moyes did for a long time, only to be pilloried after the fact.

It would also appear that the goal posts have moved. A seller couldn't be found to close last year, so now the sticker price is .... $20-25m higher before CoG's potential contribution? Hullo.

I'm concluding that the league isn't at all serious about Glendale as a location. Those numbers simply do not work.

 
Old
08-27-2010, 09:39 PM
  #46
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i blame the 4 million people in phoenix who are not fans.
kind sir, the question here is how to make those 4 million fans, which is a topic that has been avoided by many teams.

I visited my friend up in NJ in December. I stayed there for a week, I didn't see a single ad for the devils.

It's league-wide. It's a major problem that needs to be addressed.


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08-27-2010, 09:44 PM
  #47
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i read that as new information....the $7.5m is in the latest MOU and i conclude from his comment that the current stall is due in part to the fact that Ice Edge want that money guaranteed and the city is balking...

- The city has thus far balked at guaranteeing up to $7.5 million annually, explaining it doesn't want to endanger the city's credit rating.
Yet publicly, they submit & have approved a revised MOU which had nothing about "guarantees'" & IEH travels back down that same road after the fact having already been told it was a non-starter which forced them out once before?. Incredible. So you think Burns' inf. is accurate & up to date?. When I read it, I went, oh oh, this guys way behind the times here. And Jones is calling Glendale "Gongdale"?. Pot calling the kettle black. Bozo's.

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08-27-2010, 09:44 PM
  #48
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i would agree with that.

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08-27-2010, 09:45 PM
  #49
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Surely, you jest. Expectations that, while still under threat of relocation, people and corporations will come flocking to the team are unrealistic at best, disingenuous at worst.

Ownership must be settled and people and industry assured that the Coyotes are no longer under threat of relocation for them to show money and emotional involvement to the team.
But isn't this exactly the catch-22? Ownership groups aren't willing to risk a ton of money on an uncertain market, and fans are not willing to risk buying tickets in the face of an uncertain ownership situation.

Wasn't all of this completely predictable, and avoidable? Glendale must have known that they need a CFD in place to generate a lot of revenue to subsidize any new ownership group for some time. They approved an MOU with Reinsdorf in April to that effect. Since then, instead of setting up the CFD revenue mechanisms and stabilizing the franchise, they have frittered away months negotiating with a group that don't seem to have the financial wherewithal to buy the team. Didn't they already know this? My interpretation is that they found that the CFD mechanism was just not viable with the Westgate businesses. After all, Glendale and Reinsdorf were all set to go.

You say that the fans are unwilling to commit to supporting the Coyotes until they can see a stable ownership situation, but a stable ownership situation depends on a bunch of businesses committing a ton of money to subsidize the team by charging non-hockey fans extra taxes and levies. There is a certain amount of twisted irony in that.

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08-27-2010, 09:46 PM
  #50
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Why not? It's what every individual owner has to do
yes but to ask them to invest their own money in a team not in their market that they happen to be 1/29th owners of?....

what does the owner of the calgary flames have to gain by spending his own money to market the coyotes at the benefit of some future owner in phoenix?...im pretty sure he would rather use his money to build his own franchise.

the NHL is not a seperate entity...it is the 29 other owners.

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