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Part XI: Phx Coyotes - Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected...

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08-27-2010, 09:49 PM
  #51
Tinalera
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
what should the NHL be doing in your opinion?

how could they be working with potential buyers?...doing what exactly?...taking minutes in the meetings?...the negotiations are between the city and potential owners.

how could they not keep fans in the dark?....what would they be saying?...a play by play of the council meetings?

how could they create excitement and enthusiasm?...inflatable tube men on the freeway?

i really fail to see how it is the NHL's responsibility to spend other owner's money investing in this market.

the team is teetering on the brink and needs support now more than ever....claiming that 4000 tickets and 1/4 of the suites isnt bad is ludicrous...how could it be worse?.....so much for all the sell outs last year as proof of a great market....3 months later and its nothing but crickets.

i dont blame the fans...i blame the 4 million people in phoenix who are not fans.
It's tough for the fans who sold out the arena going into the off season with hope-the whole display that played out for them, and obviously the concern is going to be lame duck. Maybe they felt a little betrayed on the street-they sold out the arena and had a great playoff crowd, yet there is still no resolution-I think many have washed their hands and basically said fish or cut bait, I'm not attending unless I know there's a future. I think what really cuts deep is the belief(whether warranted or not) that the team, just as it's getting a competitive team is moving elsewhere, getting the benefit of all the growing pains the Yotes went through-and that is the final straw, that has to hurt immensely, and if the fans just dont' want to deal with it anymore.


EDIT: Sorry Whilee, I must have posted this during your point about the fans supporting the team, and yes it is a twisted irony really. All in all it is just awfully sad.

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08-27-2010, 09:50 PM
  #52
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Yet publicly, they submit & have approved a revised MOU which had nothing about "guarantees'" & IEH travels back down that same road after the fact having already been told it was a non-starter which forced them out once before?. Incredible. So you think Burns' inf. is accurate & up to date?. When I read it, I went, oh oh, this guys way behind the times here. And Jones is calling Glendale "Gongdale"?. Pot calling the kettle black. Bozo's.
....chuck barris would be having a hey day.

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08-27-2010, 09:51 PM
  #53
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what should the NHL be doing in your opinion?

how could they be working with potential buyers?...doing what exactly?...taking minutes in the meetings?...the negotiations are between the city and potential owners.

how could they not keep fans in the dark?....what would they be saying?...a play by play of the council meetings?

how could they create excitement and enthusiasm?...inflatable tube men on the freeway?

i really fail to see how it is the NHL's responsibility to spend other owner's money investing in this market.

the team is teetering on the brink and needs support now more than ever....claiming that 4000 tickets and 1/4 of the suites isnt bad is ludicrous...how could it be worse?.....so much for all the sell outs last year as proof of a great market....3 months later and its nothing but crickets.

i dont blame the fans...i blame the 4 million people in phoenix who are not fans.
Too much Man. You cant be serious?.

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Perhaps a more ominous question with respect to Burnside's article is that it appears that the knives are coming out. There was some pretty harsh language directed at Glendale from "sources". Those "sources" are presumably either from ownership groups (hello IEH), or the NHL. If it is the NHL that is starting to discredit the City of Glendale behind the scenes, then this is not good at all for the Coyotes.
Nope. And "ominous" is dead bang-on Whilee.

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08-27-2010, 09:54 PM
  #54
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yes but to ask them to invest their own money in a team not in their market that they happen to be 1/29th owners of?....

what does the owner of the calgary flames have to gain by spending his own money to market the coyotes at the benefit of some future owner in phoenix?...im pretty sure he would rather use his money to build his own franchise.

the NHL is not a seperate entity...it is the 29 other owners.
Yes, but at the moment if the team cannot garner enough revenues to pay their own way, then it's the money that otherwise would go to all 30 teams that gets diverted. That $25m loss last year had to come from somewhere. The NHL doesn't have the money, the teams do. Thus it really is in their interest to put enough into the business to make it self-standing.

 
Old
08-27-2010, 09:56 PM
  #55
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I understand what a "retweet" is, but I am having a difficult time understanding your point. Is it that "iceedgedj" is using other peoples' humorous and/or facetious musings to exhibit his own perspective on the situation? If someone retweets an insensitive or inappropriate joke, doesn't that convey something about them too?

For whatever reason, Daryl Jones thought that it would be a good idea to use his Twitter account to communicate, often obtusely, about the IEH's bid to own the Coyotes. I, and evidently others on this board, think that retweeting others' facetious musings conveys a lack of seriousness on his part, which unfortunately fits with the overall impression that many have had about IEH as a potential ownership group for the Coyotes.

Have you been following iceedgedj's recent tweeting? If so, do you really think it matters that some of his previous posts have been "retweets" in terms of his perspective on the situation?
Yes, I follow Jones' tweeting. The fact that you focus on what are obvious jokes says a lot more about where you come form on the PHO issue than it does about Jones, IMO. Humour actually plays a role in business, particuarly in business negotiations. Do you think that Bettman/Daly et al have not shared a few rueful one-liners about kovalchuk?

Now, if I were coming from the same preconception base as you, I would focus more on tweets like this:

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IceEdgeDJ For the record, Ice Edge can not condone Espn's Burnside calling Glendale, Gongdale. Off the record, Ice Edge DJ chuckled.
I would also focus on tweets like that and, even more importantly, the rather clear inference that one can draw that Burnside is carrying Ice Edge's water here and that Ice Edge is the source for Burnside's story. That is problematic.

Jokes about the Kovalchuk contract simply put him in the same company as anyone else who follows hockey. Complaining about jokes like that is indication of someone who is simply looking for things to complain about. Why one would do that when there are other legit issues to raise about IEH does not help the discussion.

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^DJ is using twitter as a defacto mechanism to issue press releases...its not like he is forwarding a private e-mail to a buddy....if he re-tweets its because he wants to be associated with the content of the text.

he isnt tweeting to his wife that he'll be home for dinner....he is suppoosedly the actual person trying to negotiate the purchase of a $170m business...any comment he makes about it, whether first person or endorsing the writing of someone else is relevant to the situation.
Really? What makes you think he is the guy involved in the negotiations?

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08-27-2010, 09:56 PM
  #56
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and what happens when the yotes stumble and lose the first 10? not saying they will but you understand my meaning. the longer the fans stay away the more you plunge the knife and twist.
not a healthy way to show you care is it?
Hockey fans have not been invested in the Coyotes for the better part of the decade. Poor management, pure and simple. Even the WNBA managed to become part of the community. Marketing, making the Coyotes part of the fabric of the community, have been utterly absent.

You think that while this gong show continues the team will attract a new following?

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08-27-2010, 09:57 PM
  #57
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Why not? It's what every individual owner has to do, and what Moyes did for a long time, only to be pilloried after the fact.

It would also appear that the goal posts have moved. A seller couldn't be found to close last year, so now the sticker price is .... $20-25m higher before CoG's potential contribution? Hullo.

I'm concluding that the league isn't at all serious about Glendale as a location. Those numbers simply do not work.


That being Fugu (and maybe I dont know the fine details)but how Iron clad is the Dec 31 cutoff date? I figure they're for the final year, covering costs or whathaveyou, but could the NHL just get along with doing what they need to do (rescind franchise) if they aren't serious about it? Why continue the charade?

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08-27-2010, 09:57 PM
  #58
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It's tough for the fans who sold out the arena going into the off season with hope-the whole display that played out for them, and obviously the concern is going to be lame duck. Maybe they felt a little betrayed on the street-they sold out the arena and had a great playoff crowd, yet there is still no resolution-I think many have washed their hands and basically said fish or cut bait, I'm not attending unless I know there's a future. I think what really cuts deep is the belief(whether warranted or not) that the team, just as it's getting a competitive team is moving elsewhere, getting the benefit of all the growing pains the Yotes went through-and that is the final straw, that has to hurt immensely, and if the fans just dont' want to deal with it anymore.


EDIT: Sorry Whilee, I must have posted this during your point about the fans supporting the team, and yes it is a twisted irony really. All in all it is just awfully sad.
i understand that...im playing devil's advocate to a certain extent....if you would have told me in may that on the eve of september first we would still be talking about it at this level i would not have believed you.

the timing of the whole TBay this is so odd to me....why make this announcement now?....i assume it is for 2011, so why not wait until things are resolved in glendale before announcing a completely different transaction.

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08-27-2010, 09:59 PM
  #59
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Too much Man. You cant be serious?.
.
63.8% serious.

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08-27-2010, 10:00 PM
  #60
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Yes, but at the moment if the team cannot garner enough revenues to pay their own way, then it's the money that otherwise would go to all 30 teams that gets diverted. That $25m loss last year had to come from somewhere. The NHL doesn't have the money, the teams do. Thus it really is in their interest to put enough into the business to make it self-standing.
you are right....maybe the $25m loss guarantee was also a guarantee that the NHL wouldnt spend any more money marketing the team.

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08-27-2010, 10:01 PM
  #61
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....chuck barris would be having a hey day.
You are aware that in between creating game shows like The Dating Game & the Gong Show he was an Assassin for the CIA?. True.

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08-27-2010, 10:02 PM
  #62
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^great movie

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08-27-2010, 10:03 PM
  #63
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[/b]

That being Fugu (and maybe I dont know the fine details)but how Iron clad is the Dec 31 cutoff date? I figure they're for the final year, covering costs or whathaveyou, but could the NHL just get along with doing what they need to do (rescind franchise) if they aren't serious about it? Why continue the charade?
I think JR was their man all along. It would have been fine if the pesky Arizona laws weren't being referenced, and the self-appointed watchdog keeping them all honest. Is the BOG on-board with a potential move to Winnipeg? I can see a few members who might prefer a different city if an owner can be lined up. Or is it simply a matter of renovations to MTS Centre not being ready yet, hence the delay. Why continue the charade? Well, the minute the NHL announces the Coyotes are leaving, guess what happens to ticket and sponsorship sales? Poof.

 
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08-27-2010, 10:03 PM
  #64
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i dont blame the fans...i blame the 4 million people in phoenix who are not fans.
Oh, Okay. That's fine, go blame 4 million people for the distress of a team to which they have absolutely no requirement to support.

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08-27-2010, 10:04 PM
  #65
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I'm concluding that the league isn't at all serious about Glendale as a location. Those numbers simply do not work.
I guess I look at it slightly differently - they would love a stable team in Phoenix but figured out a long time ago that it just wasn't going to happen - so they're playing out the string as best they can (from their perspective, anyway).

The "bona fide" from Winnipeg was a couple of months ago now, so they must have been seriously talking with them for a few months before that.

 
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08-27-2010, 10:04 PM
  #66
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i understand that...im playing devil's advocate to a certain extent....if you would have told me in may that on the eve of september first we would still be talking about it at this level i would not have believed you.

the timing of the whole TBay this is so odd to me....why make this announcement now?....i assume it is for 2011, so why not wait until things are resolved in glendale before announcing a completely different transaction.
Indeed that was my question back at the beginning of the TB thread- the time is curious to say the least-2 days before check cashing day? IEH has been rather unpredictable during this whole thing, so who knows what they're going to announce(I've since thought back on my "ripping" speech they might do, and now agree that it's probably unlikely).

I just don't believe in coincidence-I think in some way we'll be told IEH is out of the running- now, if I hear from Mr. Jones "Things are proceeding smoothly, we're getting a deal done", my head will probably meet keyboard....


Last edited by Tinalera: 08-27-2010 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Edited for clarification
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08-27-2010, 10:06 PM
  #67
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I think JR was their man all along. It would have been fine if the pesky Arizona laws weren't being referenced, and the self-appointed watchdog keeping them all honest. Is the BOG on-board with a potential move to Winnipeg? I can see a few members who might prefer a different city if an owner can be lined up. Or is it simply a matter of renovations to MTS Centre not being ready yet, hence the delay. Why continue the charade? Well, the minute the NHL announces the Coyotes are leaving, guess what happens to ticket and sponsorship sales? Poof.
They've been "poofed" for a while, since last summer. If that's what the NHL wants, they can go a announce it right now with little to lose.

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08-27-2010, 10:08 PM
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Difference being that Daly and Bettman aren't broadcasting their jokes, or the ones they might appreciate, to the rest of the world.


And a swing and whiffff.

 
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08-27-2010, 10:10 PM
  #69
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I think JR was their man all along. It would have been fine if the pesky Arizona laws weren't being referenced, and the self-appointed watchdog keeping them all honest. Is the BOG on-board with a potential move to Winnipeg? I can see a few members who might prefer a different city if an owner can be lined up. Or is it simply a matter of renovations to MTS Centre not being ready yet, hence the delay. Why continue the charade? Well, the minute the NHL announces the Coyotes are leaving, guess what happens to ticket and sponsorship sales? Poof.
Of course, I missed the obvious about sponsorship and ticketsales

As for the rest of it, that's some real cloak and dagger stuff, and at this point it wouldn't surprise me in the slighest.

Can someone remind me again the date when IEH was first announced as a "serious" candidate for buying the team? Are we past a year yet?

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08-27-2010, 10:12 PM
  #70
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Yes, I follow Jones' tweeting. The fact that you focus on what are obvious jokes says a lot more about where you come form on the PHO issue than it does about Jones, IMO. Humour actually plays a role in business, particuarly in business negotiations.

Now, if I were coming from the same preconception base as you, I would focus more on tweets like this:



I would also focus on the rather clear inference that one can draw that Burnside is carrying Ice Edge's water here and that Ice Edge is the source for Burnside's story. That is problematic. Jokes about the Kovalchuk contract simply put him in the same company as anyone else who follows hockey. Complaining about jokes like that is indication of someone who is simply looking for things to complain about. Why one would do that when there are other legit issues to raise does not help your case.



Really? What makes you think he is the guy involved in the negotiations?
GSC... Might I offer the observation that your position the Coyotes' ownership situation is not exactly inscrutable?

There is a difference between being humorous and being ridiculous. Let's just say that not everyone has been "laughing with" IEH. Jones' twitter escapades reinforced commonly-shared views about the IEH group as an ownership possibility.

Actually, I am currently in a country that does not permit access to Twitter, so I have been denied the privilege of following iceedgedj's recent activity. I am constrained to what others have posted. That "Gongdale" Twitter post by Jones is humorous, I must say. Thanks for posting it here. Is that the sort of humor that you find works well in serious business negotiations?

I agree with you that the most likely source of Burnside's material is IEH, and that this is not positive.

As for "helping my case", a fair assessment of my posts would not conclude that I have relied much on trying to read into the underlying meaning of IEH's tweets. However, in retrospect my very early suggestion that perhaps those tweets suggested that IEH was not all that serious was prescient.

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08-27-2010, 10:16 PM
  #71
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Difference being that Daly and Bettman aren't broadcasting their jokes, or the ones they might appreciate, to the rest of the world.


And a swing and whiffff.
Possibly because they are NHL officials and Jones is, as of this moment, just a guy.

Shelled you off the mound ... again.

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08-27-2010, 10:21 PM
  #72
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Oh, Okay. That's fine, go blame 4 million people for the distress of a team to which they have absolutely no requirement to support.
But they could very well support the Coyotes, by visiting Westgate and paying extra levies and taxes. They just need to set up that CFD first, though....

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08-27-2010, 10:22 PM
  #73
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Of course, I missed the obvious about sponsorship and ticketsales

As for the rest of it, that's some real cloak and dagger stuff, and at this point it wouldn't surprise me in the slighest.

Can someone remind me again the date when IEH was first announced as a "serious" candidate for buying the team? Are we past a year yet?
I don't know when they were first announced, but in December 2009 Glendale announced that transfer of ownership from the NHL to IEH was "imminent".

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08-27-2010, 10:22 PM
  #74
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@GC.

You defending IEH is almost as humorous as the Saskin defense.

 
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08-27-2010, 10:23 PM
  #75
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I'm having difficulty believing the Coyotes staff are not doing everything in their power to sell tickets/boxes/and advertising. These jobs are not sallaried positions. They are primarily paid on a results basis. The NHL (or the 29 other teams) have no interest in what is going on in Phoenix because they have hired people to do the job.

Let's face facts here. This has been one lame duck season in the making. There has been a threat to move this team for 6 or 7 months and a deadline looms closer every day. When asked for developments the best news seen is 'no comment'. If you are a potential customer and have ad money to spend or expense money for a suite, are you going to invest it in an empty arena that liekly won't be there beyond a year or elsewhere? If you have spare entertainment money to spend on a local sports team will you spend it on the team that has the for sale sign on the lawn or the perenial contender across town?

The effort to market is there, there just isn't anyone buying. Its pretty bad in Glendale... my old man used to say... 'You can't pollish a turd'.

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