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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Part XI: Phx Coyotes - Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected...

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08-27-2010, 11:54 PM
  #101
Whileee
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Its' an inflammatory & incorrect statement designed to cover the fact that Kap'n Keyboard went back to Glendale asking for guarantees' against the CFD after being told "no" about a dozen times previously. The article by Burnside is negative to the extreme. The source sounding like an insolent schoolboy who got caught out & trys to deflect his errors' through the castigation of innuendo, half truths & lies.
If, as you and I suspect, Burnside is channeling IEH's DJ, then I think you characterize the dynamics well. The flaming of the COG seems a bit much given the enormous patience they showed to IEH. Now we wait to find out if IEH was just spurned by COG, or replaced by another suitor.

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08-27-2010, 11:59 PM
  #102
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I agree that DJ of IEH is the likely source. It fits his MO: leak the information to the reporter, and then praise and retweet the contents. Ask jimgintonio how well that works out for the reporter's credibility.

By the way, what is the evidence that there are other viable ownership groups, other than vague statements from the Coyotes staff?
First part, ya, its got DJ written all over it as per my last post, including motivation & delivery. Second part; their are at least 2 other parties interested, both viable financially, though hung up on the asking price & aspects of the lease absent an out clause. How do I know this?. I just do.

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08-28-2010, 12:07 AM
  #103
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i would suspect that the absence of an 'out clause' is holding back more than just two potential ownership candidates.

if these phantom groups are hung up on the cost and an out clause, then i personally dont really consider them legitimate buyers....its difficult to imagine either of those conditions changing any time soon....

until they step out of the shadows they are just a rumour.

the pre-season starts in 3 weeks....if they are interested they had better belly up to the bar.

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08-28-2010, 12:13 AM
  #104
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First part, ya, its got DJ written all over it as per my last post, including motivation & delivery. Second part; their are at least 2 other parties interested, both viable financially, though hung up on the asking price & aspects of the lease absent an out clause. How do I know this?. I just do.
Interesting. But aren't those two issues longstanding and somewhat intractable? The NHL has made it clear that they will not lower the asking price, and how could they really do that anyway, all things considered? If they were going to do that one would have thought that they would have offered a better deal to Reinsdorf already.

If Glendale offers an out-clause, then they might bring in all sorts of potential ownership groups, but then the NHL is staring at an uncertain relocation mess a few years down the road. Unless substantial new revenue streams can be developed in Glendale (via CFD), it just looks like a local sale will delay the inevitable, and I suspect that the NHL wants to be in control of the process going forward.

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08-28-2010, 12:27 AM
  #105
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But they could very well support the Coyotes, by visiting Westgate and paying extra levies and taxes. They just need to set up that CFD first, though....
Mod: deleted. It's not like its the only game in town. Just because they're there, in Glendale, clearly isn't enough. Everyone knows that the Southern and Southwestern states have the good fortune to have a number of sports just as important to them as hockey is to the Canadians. Support for hockey down here needs to be nurtured. This is just what I would counsel the NBA or MLB if they wanted to expand out of Toronto and across Canada. Have a good product and a lot of patience, and grow the interest.


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08-28-2010, 12:32 AM
  #106
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Interesting. But aren't those two issues longstanding and somewhat intractable? The NHL has made it clear that they will not lower the asking price, and how could they really do that anyway, all things considered? If they were going to do that one would have thought that they would have offered a better deal to Reinsdorf already.

If Glendale offers an out-clause, then they might bring in all sorts of potential ownership groups, but then the NHL is staring at an uncertain relocation mess a few years down the road. Unless substantial new revenue streams can be developed in Glendale (via CFD), it just looks like a local sale will delay the inevitable, and I suspect that the NHL wants to be in control of the process going forward.
With the latter, Glendale no longer has an option in that regard. Either they incorporate an out clause in 3-5-7yrs or the teams gone regardless June 2011. Rest assured, the NHL will be in control of any movement, be it next year or in 2015. No mess, no fuss. New revenue streams can be developed as we've discussed at length, which combined with the CFD as it exists absent Ellman & the Westgater's is still doable. As for the asking price, here we hit a wall, unless you consider; a non-hockey transaction between the incoming owner and existing members of the BOG's that enriches the new owner enough to justify the price tag while making money for all concerned. This aint over by a long shot.

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08-28-2010, 12:35 AM
  #107
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4 million people have not had reason to support the Coyotes. It's not like its the only game in town. Just because they're there, in Glendale, clearly isn't enough. Everyone knows that the Southern and Southwestern states have the good fortune to have a number of sports just as important to them as hockey is to the Canadians. Support for hockey down here needs to be nurtured. This is just what I would counsel the NBA or MLB if they wanted to expand out of Toronto and across Canada. Have a good product and a lot of patience, and grow the interest.
I agree with this.


Its just unfortunate circumstances...now doesn't seem to be the best time for Phoenix to turn things around.

To me it seems like when you break up with someone who u really loved...the break happens because it must; things get so bad and out of control that neither side can fix it no matter how much they might want to. Its painful yeah, but that doesn't mean its over for all eternity...

And yes, I will be replacing Will Smith in Hitch 2.

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08-28-2010, 12:38 AM
  #108
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One day, when all is said and done, I would love to get my hands on documents which show what really has been happening over the course of the past year.

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08-28-2010, 12:41 AM
  #109
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^ there are ways to creatively finance a purchase price for sure....i have a hard time believing that glendale will bend on the out clause, but i guess if their backs are against the wall they might consider a 5 year roll of the dice....who would have thought they would hand $25m to the league? so i guess anything can happen....desperation makes people do funny things.

i totally agree that it isnt over by a long shot.....if not in time, in twists and turns....there is a HUGE amount of work to be done if there is another group willing to jump in the pool...this isnt a simple put the money on the table transaction....declaring their intention is only the first of many steps and they havent even done that yet.

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08-28-2010, 12:42 AM
  #110
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With the latter, Glendale no longer has an option in that regard. Either they incorporate an out clause in 3-5-7yrs or the teams gone regardless June 2011. Rest assured, the NHL will be in control of any movement, be it next year or in 2015. No mess, no fuss. New revenue streams can be developed as we've discussed at length, which combined with the CFD as it exists absent Ellman & the Westgater's is still doable. As for the asking price, here we hit a wall, unless you consider; a non-hockey transaction between the incoming owner and existing members of the BOG's that enriches the new owner enough to justify the price tag while making money for all concerned. This aint over by a long shot.
You make it all sound so intriguing, and, well... simple.

But controlling a viable relocation is not so simple as it seems. A group might buy the team to keep it in Glendale, but their relocation options in the future depend on where there are suitable markets and arenas, and the ownership situation of those arenas.

As for the "side deal where everybody gets richer"; I look forward to seeing the parameters of that potential transaction.

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08-28-2010, 12:59 AM
  #111
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One day, when all is said and done, I would love to get my hands on documents which show what really has been happening over the course of the past year.
Papers?. What papers Maing?. I got no stinkin papers .

(Note; Didnt the COG hire Edward Scissorhands as a File Clerk?)

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^ there are ways to creatively finance a purchase price for sure....i have a hard time believing that glendale will bend on the out clause, but i guess if their backs are against the wall they might consider a 5 year roll of the dice....who would have thought they would hand $25m to the league? so i guess anything can happen....desperation makes people do funny things.
Absolutely. Glass is half full peter.

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You make it all sound so intriguing, and, well... simple.But controlling a viable relocation is not so simple as it seems. A group might buy the team to keep it in Glendale, but their relocation options in the future depend on where there are suitable markets and arenas, and the ownership situation of those arenas.

As for the "side deal where everybody gets richer"; I look forward to seeing the parameters of that potential transaction.
It really is a simple transaction Whilee. Incoming owner can get first dibs on a Portland, Houston expansion for next to nothing if he cant turn the Coyotes around, after first trying to sell the team to yet another owner in 5-7yrs. If no one steps up, he can move the franchise to either city. Real estate & arena booking plums thrown his way by his partners in the league to ease the pain. Can be done, is every day in many businesses.


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08-28-2010, 01:06 AM
  #112
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nowhere near half full i'd say....and whatever is filling it will evaporate quickly in the desert heat.

i know you are optimistic but until i see a shred of proof i have a hard time reconsiling the mountain of evidence that opposes your white knight theory.

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08-28-2010, 01:13 AM
  #113
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i know you are optimistic but until i see a shred of proof i have a hard time reconsiling the mountain of evidence that opposes your white knight theory.
The NHL has a long history of nepotistic practices amongst its fraternity as you know. Dozens of examples can be sited. Would you believe a Gray Knight?.

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08-28-2010, 01:15 AM
  #114
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Papers?. What papers?. I got no stinkin papers.



Absolutely. Glass is half full peter.



It really is a simple transaction Whilee. Incoming owner can get first dibs on a Portland, Houston expansion for next to nothing if he cant turn the Coyotes around, after first trying to sell the team to yet another owner in 5-7yrs. If no one steps up, he can move the franchise to either city. Real estate & arena booking plums thrown his way by his partners in the league to ease the pain. Can be done, is every day in many businesses.
I love it... if I own any of about half of the NHL franchises I would try to sell immediately and get this deal. Why keep slogging it out in a tough market when the NHL is prepared to put this on a platter?

Oh, and I suppose that Glendale is thinking... "so I have to raise $50-100 million for you in the next several years, and then you can waltz off to Houston with the team and leave me cleaning up the mess?"

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08-28-2010, 01:16 AM
  #115
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The NHL has a long history of nepotistic practices amongst its fraternity as you know. Dozens of examples can be sited. Would you believe a Gray Knight?.
I thought Reinsdorf was the "Gray Knight".

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08-28-2010, 01:24 AM
  #116
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Papers?. What papers?. I got no stinkin papers.



Absolutely. Glass is half full peter.



It really is a simple transaction Whilee. Incoming owner can get first dibs on a Portland, Houston expansion for next to nothing if he cant turn the Coyotes around, after first trying to sell the team to yet another owner in 5-7yrs. If no one steps up, he can move the franchise to either city. Real estate & arena booking plums thrown his way by his partners in the league to ease the pain. Can be done, is every day in many businesses.
One more thing... if the NHL really has a bona fide owner that would like to set up shop in Houston, and has the financial wherewithal, can you think of one good reason why they wouldn't have taken that deal already? Why bother extending the machinations in Glendale this season? Do they really prefer to keep the team in Glendale to relocating to Houston with a strong owner? Curious....

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08-28-2010, 01:36 AM
  #117
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Would you believe a Gray Knight?

if you would have said, the Knight Rider....then i might have believed you.


source: http://josdigital.com/blog/wp-conten...ight_rider.jpg

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08-28-2010, 01:40 AM
  #118
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K.....you seem pretty confident in your wacky ideas....i will be the first to say you are the man if you turn out to be right.

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08-28-2010, 02:13 AM
  #119
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K.....you seem pretty confident in your wacky ideas....i will be the first to say you are the man if you turn out to be right.
That ain't fair.

Killion has an unfair advantage. He is basing his assessment on sources, while most of the rest of us have to speculate based on decoding the tweets of iceedgedj and the minutes of the Glendale city council meetings.

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08-28-2010, 02:42 AM
  #120
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Can be done, is every day in many businesses.
Yes, it can.

You're basically describing the Reinsdorf deal that CoG MOU'ed, then rebuffed.

 
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08-28-2010, 09:10 AM
  #121
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Oh, and I suppose that Glendale is thinking... "so I have to raise $50-100 million for you in the next several years, and then you can waltz off to Houston with the team and leave me cleaning up the mess?"
What mess Whilee?. Their damned if they do & damned if they dont provide an out clause. In providing one, they'll at least survive to fight another day, and hopefully, the new ownership group'll be able to turn things around enough to either stay permanently or at the very least make it attractive enough for a new owner to buy it in 2015,16 or 17. The "Gray Knight" moving on to the more fertile fields of Portland or Houston. See Craig Leipold / Nashville-Minnesota for a blueprint of how this might work.

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One more thing... if the NHL really has a bona fide owner that would like to set up shop in Houston, and has the financial wherewithal, can you think of one good reason why they wouldn't have taken that deal already? Why bother extending the machinations in Glendale this season? Do they really prefer to keep the team in Glendale to relocating to Houston with a strong owner? Curious....
Because Glendale's refusing to come down off of its high-horse regarding the out clause for one thing. Beyond that, their are other variables that are delaying a transaction. When it does happen though, it'll happen fast, seemingly coming out of left field & catching ya'll completely flat footed & gobsmacked!.

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Killion has an unfair advantage. He is basing his assessment on sources, while most of the rest of us have to speculate based on decoding the tweets of iceedgedj and the minutes of the Glendale city council meetings.
No Whilee, like you I only know what I read and hear whispered in business circles..... This is all just pure speculation on my part.

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08-28-2010, 09:17 AM
  #122
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seriously?...you think he's hanging out on the dock at his cottage waiting for the results of the negotiations on his $200m transaction?...he might not be the guy taking the notes, but as one of only 4 people in this 'company' i'm pretty sure he's involed in the negotiations.
firstly, there are more than four people involved.

Secondly, allow me to read back to you your words:

Quote:
he is suppoosedly the actual person trying to negotiate the purchase of a $170m business
You have no basis for saying that, since no one has ever said such a thing or even intimated it since they began (he is not even the lead spokeman). What he is is the only guy who is active on Twitter and accordingly people here hang on his every word and parse every twitter as if they are the words of the almighty himself.

Face it - you made up the above statement out of whole cloth.

In reality, my professional guess would be that counsel have been leading the negotiations on this transaction, on both sides. None of the principles are lawyers, or specialized lease negotiators for that matter. This is how it is done. To the extent that IEH (or any other suitor) has a principal available for business decisions arising from the negotiations, they would designate a lead. In this case, it would be almost surely their CEO LeBlanc, who has himself moved to the PHO area (Scottsdale, I think?), and who is, after all, CEO. You don't have multiple guys talking at the table; that is just not how it is done.

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08-28-2010, 09:23 AM
  #123
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^ even with a group such as IEH which has more than 1 member investing?

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08-28-2010, 09:30 AM
  #124
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K.....you seem pretty confident in your wacky ideas....i will be the first to say you are the man if you turn out to be right.
Im 50/50 on it ps. You buying in?.

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Yes, it can. You're basically describing the Reinsdorf deal that CoG MOU'ed, then rebuffed.
Sure, his MOU was all "purdy like" n' all, but once he'd gained entry into the Henhouse the city fathers became aware that they'd likely become the entree', the taxpayers the main course, the team the dessert. Reinsdorf is a legend in the sports ownership field in the same way Meyer Lansky was a legendary "numbers guy" with the Mafia. His offer was bare faced & predatory, an admirable & desirable trait in many circles Dado.

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08-28-2010, 09:41 AM
  #125
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^ even with a group such as IEH which has more than 1 member investing?
Especially if you have more than one investor. Multiple voices at a negotiating table = a no-no.

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