HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

Sharks interested in Marc Staal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-28-2010, 12:37 AM
  #76
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I'd trade them Murray+, it's probably who'd they want anyway.

Murray, Joslin + 1st... something like that. Don't post that **** on the main board though, Rangers fans will flip a lid, but that's what I would actually expect.

IF he's traded, it's because they can't sign him to a contract, that makes him less expensive to trade for.
We would flip because it's an insane proposal. It's literally the equivalent of us offering Sauer, a 2nd rounder and Eminger for Setoguchi before he signed.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:54 AM
  #77
WineShark
HFBoards Sponsor
 
WineShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,985
vCash: 500
We would have better success trying to trade for Girardi in a salary dump and clearing cap space for them to sign Staal. If Sather doesnt like the dump, DW can sign Staal and offer to trade him back for the picks needed to sign him and Girardi.

Not likely to happen because there are too many moving parts. I still think DW is going to wait to the trade deadline. But I think Girardi is an OK 2-way solution for the Sharks.

__________________
The Best Sports Team in the Bay Area for 20 Years
WineShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 01:05 AM
  #78
Hertl Power
Registered User
 
Hertl Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bay Area, California
Country: United States
Posts: 1,376
vCash: 500
Really seems more like speculation than a rumor. Doubt anything comes of it.

Hertl Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 01:12 AM
  #79
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
We would have better success trying to trade for Girardi in a salary dump and clearing cap space for them to sign Staal. If Sather doesnt like the dump, DW can sign Staal and offer to trade him back for the picks needed to sign him and Girardi.

Not likely to happen because there are too many moving parts. I still think DW is going to wait to the trade deadline. But I think Girardi is an OK 2-way solution for the Sharks.
The Rangers already have their salary dump. The logical way that the Rangers cap works for this season is to dump Redden in the minors. Once they sign Staal (4-5 mil), they'll be about 4 million over the cap. They can create that space by either dumping Redden, or by demoting a few guys like Avery, White, Gilroy, Boyle or Christensen. A lot will depend on how the young guys like Weise, Stepan, and McDonagh play in camp.

There is no need for them to give away a player like Girardi. The only way the Sharks get Staal is to float an offer sheet that the Rangers truly can't match, and that number is in the 6.5 to 7 million dollar range.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 01:50 AM
  #80
Lebanezer
Registered User
 
Lebanezer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 2,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
For freaking Staal? Man this off-season is warping your minds. That trade makes us significantly worse. Staal is barely better than Vlasic as it is, if at all.

If that happens, you might as well write the season off, that's just absurd.

You'd think we were trying to trade for Doughty here ffs.
I didn't say that we make the trade, I was speaking from the Rangers perspective in terms of asking price. I prefer we stand pat as of now.

Lebanezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 02:16 AM
  #81
Rickety Cricket
Registered User
 
Rickety Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not Kent Huskins
Country: United States
Posts: 28,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiddenpsyche View Post
Really seems more like speculation than a rumor. Doubt anything comes of it.
Which makes me glad it is properly dispostioned, I doubt much comes of this.

Rickety Cricket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 02:25 AM
  #82
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiddenpsyche View Post
Really seems more like speculation than a rumor. Doubt anything comes of it.
Probably, but at least it gives us something to think about no matter how minuscule it is. Anything is better than making up trades just for the sake of trading.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 02:34 AM
  #83
68 Z-28
Registered User
 
68 Z-28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Under the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 2,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
I'd give up Clowe+1st+2nd+Sateri for Staal. Future No.1 defenseman IMO.
That's ridiculous overpayment.

68 Z-28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 02:38 AM
  #84
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Z-28 View Post
That's ridiculous overpayment.
With this situation, the Sharks would be looking at either a 3 1st round pick return or some combination of those picks with prospects that were selected that high or seen as quality prospects.

As in, I would easily trade Coyle, Petrecki, and a 1st for Staal or one of those guys and two 1st rounders. However, he will re-sign with the Rangers. Sather's not going to accept anything else in this case.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 10:49 AM
  #85
Sharks14*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,841
vCash: 500
The only way Sather doesn't match is if DW offers 5mil or more per season, and I can't see him doing that. The Sharks don't have the cap room to do that without moving Clowe, and even if they move Clowe, after next season you have Setoguchi getting a raise, Couture... is Couture's contract up next season? You're getting Huskins and Wallin off the books too, but the cap might also go down (they say that every year though). I'm sure he could find a way to fit him in at 5 mil, but then we'd be down one top 6 forward, and our bottom two lines would be filled with league minimum AHL players. Staal would be a great pickup for the Sharks, but considering how under pressure Sather already is, and the fact that he has no problem shelling out money at least to UFA's, I see no way Sather loses his best young defenseman.

Also, 2 offer sheets in one year... I highly doubt it. GM's do frown on it, not just the ones being offer sheeted. Not to mention Setoguchi is an RFA next season, as is I believe Couture. Payback is a *****. In reality, the CBA is supposed to work so that teams don't lose their young players. Staal was drafted by the Rangers, developed by the Rangers, paid by the Rangers, and they're only now starting to reap the rewards of their investment. He's not supposed to be available to other teams. That's why GM's rarely offer sheet. For all intensive purposes, he's the Rangers' player, and they deserve to keep him. It's what's fair. Doug Wilson should have drafted his own young stud defenseman, like a Ryan Suter or Dion Phaneuf back in that 03 draft, instead of passing on them and drafting Michalek. Maybe he should have found one in the other drafts instead of drafting Goc and Kaspar in the first rounds. He's a NYR player and the odds are 99% it will stay that way. A trade is always possible, more possible than an offer sheet, but at least via offer sheet i don't see it happening, and I don't think you guys should get your hopes up. Doug Wilson dug himself and his team this hole by signing Wallin and Huskins to those ridiculous contracts, and now we the fans need to accept it and lie in it. Even if the Sharks got Staal, or Pronger, or Keith, or whoever, for nothing, I still don't think they'd make the Finals, and even if they did, I suspect Washington would run all over them with the endless amount of young talent they have coming up through the system. Now that's what real good drafting is. It's bewilders me completely how Doug Wilson will trade up to get the #9 pick in a draft to draft Logan Couture, but when 40 goal scorer (soon to be 50) Alexander Semin is sitting there at #13 in his draft, Doug Wilson says no thanks. Mistakes like those are what keep a team from the ultimate success.


Last edited by Sharks14*: 08-28-2010 at 10:54 AM.
Sharks14* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 11:39 AM
  #86
VP and GM
Havlat Sucks!
 
VP and GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: at home
Country: United States
Posts: 5,240
vCash: 500
So contract wise what's Staal worth

4M per over 5 years for 20M
4.5M per over 4 years for 18M

??

VP and GM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 11:41 AM
  #87
Sharks14*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,841
vCash: 500
In this year's UFA defensemen market he'd probably garner similar to a Z Michalek or even a Hamhuis. He's probably fair value at 4 mil so you'd probably get him at 4.25 or 4.5, IMo

Quote:
Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
So contract wise what's Staal worth

4M per over 5 years for 20M
4.5M per over 4 years for 18M

??

Sharks14* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 11:45 AM
  #88
WineShark
HFBoards Sponsor
 
WineShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
The Rangers already have their salary dump. The logical way that the Rangers cap works for this season is to dump Redden in the minors. Once they sign Staal (4-5 mil), they'll be about 4 million over the cap. They can create that space by either dumping Redden, or by demoting a few guys like Avery, White, Gilroy, Boyle or Christensen. A lot will depend on how the young guys like Weise, Stepan, and McDonagh play in camp.

There is no need for them to give away a player like Girardi. The only way the Sharks get Staal is to float an offer sheet that the Rangers truly can't match, and that number is in the 6.5 to 7 million dollar range.
We'll have to see how Sather handles it. There are several options to get under the cap but putting guys like Avery and Redden who were given NTCs, down in the minors, will not help a GM sign future free agents and the move has seldom been made for good reason. Players in theory get NYC's and take discounts (or take a risk and sign with a team they otherwise wouldn't) to control their destiny. Redden isn't what he once was, but he is not a bottom pair either. If Sather takes that approach, he's going to find it hard to get vets for the bottom pairs and bottom 6 to fill out the dance card in the future. That's why there is a buyout clause in the CBA.

Doug Wilson has been in the same boat. He moved McLaren to the minors, but he was in the last year of a contract and was passed by on the depth chart and didn't have a NTC. He just had an slightly outsized contract and wasn't good enough for the top 6. But Wilson was fair to the player and gave him plenty of time to try and find a team. Ehrhoff was a salary dump that many around here still hate. But he wasn't on a NTC and it was a choice between he or Vlasic who to sign. So we took sticks and pucks for a player who had a break out year with Vancouver. It was fair for the player.

But burying a serviceable defenseman in the minors for the remainder of his contract isn't going to go over well with the player or perhaps the Players Association who will work on changing that loophole in the next CBA. Think about it from your position. You are a CEO of a public company managing 2,000 people and moved your family to another city to make the company better. You are given promises but then the board tells you they have good news and bad news. The good news is you get to make the same amount of money. The bad news is its going to be managing a McDonalds in another city and your family will have to relocate if they want to be near that McDonald's.

I think Sather is going to have to make a trade and like Chicago who had some tough choices to make with their players this year, the NYR are in the same boat with Staal ready for a contract but the team at the cap. Sather is playing with fire dangling the player out there and not locking him up. If there is a trade, there are only a few players on the roster without NTC's that can clear enough cap space to sign Staal, and Girardi is one of them. That trade is better made to the opposite conference with a team that has some cap room. So its not out of the question that move could be made. Agree its a long shot though. Too many other options to play out.


Last edited by WineShark: 08-28-2010 at 11:51 AM.
WineShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 11:58 AM
  #89
JPavs8Clutchy*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bye
Country: United States
Posts: 4,656
vCash: 500
I had a dream last night that we offer sheeted him.

According to the Rangers fans, this is what the trade would have to look like


Rangers trade:
Staal
gilroy
something

Sharks
Thornton
Vlasic
1st

And the other Rangers fans thought it was fair, and one of them said the addition would have to be Drury.

JPavs8Clutchy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:01 PM
  #90
Ender
Registered User
 
Ender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: keep it secret...
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,147
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ender Send a message via Yahoo to Ender
What is the backing that it is frown upon for GM's to do multiple offer sheets in a off-season?

Ender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:07 PM
  #91
nbbyfan20
Registered User
 
nbbyfan20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Napa\ Sacramento
Posts: 1,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
I had a dream last night that we offer sheeted him.

According to the Rangers fans, this is what the trade would have to look like


Rangers trade:
Staal
gilroy
something

Sharks
Thornton
Vlasic
1st

And the other Rangers fans thought it was fair, and one of them said the addition would have to be Drury.
Thornton and Vlasic

I dont' know much about Stall, but I know he is very good defensively, nor do I know about gilroy. But Thornton and Vlasic? Their Potential is that good?

nbbyfan20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:11 PM
  #92
ChompChomp
SACK T-MAC
 
ChompChomp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, TX (Ugh)
Country: United States
Posts: 8,691
vCash: 500
What about a deal that involves Heatley for Staal, i.e. Heatley for Staal + something. Not sure what the something is, but I suspect many of us here would rather see Heatley dealt than any other first line forward on this club.

ChompChomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:19 PM
  #93
nbbyfan20
Registered User
 
nbbyfan20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Napa\ Sacramento
Posts: 1,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
What about a deal that involves Heatley for Staal, i.e. Heatley for Staal + something. Not sure what the something is, but I suspect many of us here would rather see Heatley dealt than any other first line forward on this club.
Agreed

nbbyfan20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:19 PM
  #94
JPavs8Clutchy*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bye
Country: United States
Posts: 4,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbbyfan20 View Post
Thornton and Vlasic

I dont' know much about Stall, but I know he is very good defensively, nor do I know about gilroy. But Thornton and Vlasic? Their Potential is that good?
Gilroy is an NHL/AHL tweener, and he'll likely never be anything more than that. Staal is just a slightly better version of Vlasic. Not even close to that good. If we put together that package, I'd want Doughty, or Keith, or Ovechkin, or Crosby, or Stamkos, or Malkin, or Backstrom. I would not trade that package for anything else, and even Backstrom and Malkin are stretching it for me.

JPavs8Clutchy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:21 PM
  #95
JPavs8Clutchy*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bye
Country: United States
Posts: 4,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
What about a deal that involves Heatley for Staal, i.e. Heatley for Staal + something. Not sure what the something is, but I suspect many of us here would rather see Heatley dealt than any other first line forward on this club.
I'd love a Heatley for Staal deal, I just doubt the Rangers want to take on that 7.5 million with their current cap situation.

JPavs8Clutchy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:22 PM
  #96
nbbyfan20
Registered User
 
nbbyfan20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Napa\ Sacramento
Posts: 1,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
Gilroy is an NHL/AHL tweener, and he'll likely never be anything more than that. Staal is just a slightly better version of Vlasic. Not even close to that good. If we put together that package, I'd want Doughty, or Keith, or Ovechkin, or Crosby, or Stamkos, or Malkin, or Backstrom. I would not trade that package for anything else, and even Backstrom and Malkin are stretching it for me.
Your right that package would be for those players. Since we might as well be trading the whole core to the Rangers might as well put boyle and Marleau and heatley

Ranger fans are overvaluing Stall allot.

I saw a shark fan post that they would trade Petrecki (sp), Sateri and a first and a second or something like that just for stall. And they rejected it, and said we would have to give allot more.

nbbyfan20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:29 PM
  #97
JPavs8Clutchy*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bye
Country: United States
Posts: 4,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbbyfan20 View Post
Your right that package would be for those players. Since we might as well be trading the whole core to the Rangers might as well put boyle and Marleau and heatley

Ranger fans are overvaluing Stall allot.

I saw a shark fan post that they would trade Petrecki (sp), Sateri and a first and a second or something like that just for stall. And they rejected it, and said we would have to give allot more.
Yeah, I understand that due to their crap defense, they'd want a lot for Staal, but Thornton+Vlasic+1st!?!?!?

JPavs8Clutchy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 12:47 PM
  #98
ChompChomp
SACK T-MAC
 
ChompChomp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, TX (Ugh)
Country: United States
Posts: 8,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
I'd love a Heatley for Staal deal, I just doubt the Rangers want to take on that 7.5 million with their current cap situation.
Well if that is the case, that means that Sather wouldn't necessarily match any offer sheet thrown Staal's way.

Plus the idea is that Rangers would have to send us someone else back, perhaps someone to help them clear cap space (no, not Redden).

ChompChomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 01:12 PM
  #99
vilpertti
Registered User
 
vilpertti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,551
vCash: 500
Reading this thread makes my brain want to crawl out.

vilpertti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2010, 01:35 PM
  #100
Rickety Cricket
Registered User
 
Rickety Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not Kent Huskins
Country: United States
Posts: 28,009
vCash: 500
Who would the Sharks replace Heatley with. Lets be real, he puts up ~40 goals a year and scores dirty goals. Sure the salary space would be nice, but who physically could replace him that wouldn't make the Sharks worse?

Rickety Cricket is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.