Honestly there is not really any player on San jose that i would take for Stall. He is our best D man and is only getting better. No one on San jose really tempts a trade.
Before you go any further I think you need to figure out the cap numbers and make sure you include Lundqvist and Biron. Something tells me we're going to be a few million over and we won't have room to carry any extras.
Personally I don't like what we get at our end when the main player is already making $7.5 mil and is only one year away from free agency.
well i mean we would sign him to a 3 year deal or something and by that time stepan will be able to take the #1 role of center or whenever he is able to do so we could always trade thornton for a defesman depending upon 2 years seeing who is making an impact.
Does anyone who supports Sather moves with RFA ever think that Sather overpayments to horrible players and his lack of smarts has any impact on why his RFA would want to be overpaid. I mean Sather signs Redden the worst D on the team to 7 mill a year and than gives Girardi much inferior to Stall 3.5 million. What price does this put Stall at 5.5-6? This is what happens when u overpay and are not smart as a manager things will come back to bite you and this is the time. Similar to Dubi, these players develop leverage with a manager like Sather. Put it in better terms look at Det, do u really think with Hollands history that RFA like Stall or Dubi would hold out NO! because they respect the manager.
well i mean we would sign him to a 3 year deal or something and by that time stepan will be able to take the #1 role of center or whenever he is able to do so we could always trade thornton for a defesman depending upon 2 years seeing who is making an impact.
Just from that group I worked out 59,723 mil which is only slightly over the max--59.4. So someone would have to be dumped for a smaller contract. You could work in Boyle for Christensen for instance. But then you're going with just 20 players--not 22 or 23.
We're a better team offensively for one year depending on what Thornton decides to do. Defensively we'd be worse as Staal is more valuable than Vlasic. Vlasic can play kind of soft at times as well. He'd fit in in that respect with the rest of the group not named Del Zotto.
Personally I don't like the trend--because the Rangers have done this **** before. Trading away excellent young players for aging superstars. It's usually a precursor to even more youth for vets type deals. Like as in--'Oh, yeah now that we got ***** we're a contender and we have to surround ***** with other proven veterans'.
Personally I don't like the trend--because the Rangers have done this **** before. Trading away excellent young players for aging superstars. It's usually a precursor to even more youth for vets type deals. Like as in--'Oh, yeah now that we got ***** we're a contender and we have to surround ***** with other proven veterans'.
Wouldn't worry about that I give it a zero percent chance staal goes anywhere.
I wouldn't worry. I think if Staal is traded it won't be for an aging player. It will be for an offensive player of equal age and maybe a competent but not excellent d-man that could fill his spot for a bit.
No Thornton please. He played more than a seasons worth of games in the playoffs thus far and has almost nothing to show for it
If Staal is not a long term Ranger, I promise you all right here that I will quit this team after 30+ years and become a fan of the expansion team I pick out of a hat.
Does anyone who supports Sather moves with RFA ever think that Sather overpayments to horrible players and his lack of smarts has any impact on why his RFA would want to be overpaid. I mean Sather signs Redden the worst D on the team to 7 mill a year and than gives Girardi much inferior to Stall 3.5 million. What price does this put Stall at 5.5-6? This is what happens when u overpay and are not smart as a manager things will come back to bite you and this is the time. Similar to Dubi, these players develop leverage with a manager like Sather. Put it in better terms look at Det, do u really think with Hollands history that RFA like Stall or Dubi would hold out NO! because they respect the manager.
It's about paying your dues. You toil under a rookie contract, get a respectable bump for your RFA contract, and, when you've earned it through time and production, you make the coin on your UFA contract. Roszival got his contract because he was UFA. When Staal is a UFA, Sather will give him the money. Until then, he needs to put in his time (while still making a hell of a salary).
It might be a generational thing. Too many of the younger kids in sports and business seem to think they should get the coin up front. The older style of management says that you get paid once you've both racked up the accomplishments AND the service time.
Before you go any further I think you need to figure out the cap numbers and make sure you include Lundqvist and Biron. Something tells me we're going to be a few million over and we won't have room to carry any extras.
Personally I don't like what we get at our end when the main player is already making $7.5 mil and is only one year away from free agency.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Alexander Frolov ($3.000m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.821m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
Brandon Prust ($0.800m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Michal Rozsival ($5.000m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Steve Eminger ($1.125m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,446,667; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,440,833
You see smoneil I disagree with you and totally agree with satrabyk.
I don't care how many years Redden has been in the league or how few Staal has.. Bottom line is Staal is a way better player and much bigger part of the teams potential success than Redden. Now if you give Redden so much money you shouldn't act surprised or get upset when they guy who is that much better than him wants more than 1/3 of his salary. Same deal last year with Drury and Dubinsky.
This is the same reason I agree with the people who say these stupid Redden/Drury contracts hurt the team two fold. One they're obviously awful overpayment and two it makes the young players coming off their elc ask for more than maybe they should because of how much better they are than other players who have gotten so much.
Then the Sharks aren't interested in Staal after all
Precisely, this the kind of attention I wanted to garner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric
You see smoneil I disagree with you and totally agree with satrabyk.
I don't care how many years Redden has been in the league or how few Staal has.. Bottom line is Staal is a way better player and much bigger part of the teams potential success than Redden. Now if you give Redden so much money you shouldn't act surprised or get upset when they guy who is that much better than him wants more than 1/3 of his salary. Same deal last year with Drury and Dubinsky.
This is the same reason I agree with the people who say these stupid Redden/Drury contracts hurt the team two fold. One they're obviously awful overpayment and two it makes the young players coming off their elc ask for more than maybe they should because of how much better they are than other players who have gotten so much.
In reality, that's an inevitable thought through their heads I'm sure. However, it simply isn't that way. Those players waited 10+ years to receive that kind of money. Staal/Dubinsky can expect that money if they truly succeed in the league and in 5-7 years will be paid. They have to wait their turn.
Precisely, this the kind of attention I wanted to garner
In reality, that's an inevitable thought through their heads I'm sure. However, it simply isn't that way. Those players waited 10+ years to receive that kind of money. Staal/Dubinsky can expect that money if they truly succeed in the league and in 5-7 years will be paid. They have to wait their turn.
The problem is the NHL is a league but also a buisness. Why would Dubinsky or Stall accept offers they and their agents dont agree with, only because they "may" earn more money in the future. There is no rule that states RFA can not earn a lot of money which maybe their should be, but it doesent exist so ur theory is somethign like an unwritten rule that not everyone follows, especially when managment is as bad as it is here in NY. Also you write as if Drury and Redden played seasons that made them deserve the contracts they got. Both players should not have earned the price or the term especially taking the fact NY signed them both. From my experience respect is important and that has a lot to do with RFA contract. Obviously respect is not there for RFA for New York and who could blame them.
The problem is the NHL is a league but also a buisness. Why would Dubinsky or Stall accept offers they and their agents dont agree with, only because they "may" earn more money in the future. There is no rule that states RFA can not earn a lot of money which maybe their should be, but it doesent exist so ur theory is somethign like an unwritten rule that not everyone follows, especially when managment is as bad as it is here in NY. Also you write as if Drury and Redden played seasons that made them deserve the contracts they got. Both players should not have earned the price or the term especially taking the fact NY signed them both. From my experience respect is important and that has a lot to do with RFA contract. Obviously respect is not there for RFA for New York and who could blame them.
Yes, the NHL IS a business. Take it to the real world. If you walked in the door as a brand new law school graduate, would you demand to be paid like a partner after a couple of nice years? Hell no. You'd get laughed out of the partner's office. You'd get a respectable bump, and, after a few more years of service, you'd be considered for partner. Staal is at that stage where he's worth more than his rookie contract. That said, he has very little leverage. He can either garner a reputation as a malcontent, or sign a reasonable RFA deal and get the big money when it's his turn. That's how the vast majority of businesses work.
Yes, the NHL IS a business. Take it to the real world. If you walked in the door as a brand new law school graduate, would you demand to be paid like a partner after a couple of nice years? Hell no. You'd get laughed out of the partner's office. You'd get a respectable bump, and, after a few more years of service, you'd be considered for partner. Staal is at that stage where he's worth more than his rookie contract. That said, he has very little leverage. He can either garner a reputation as a malcontent, or sign a reasonable RFA deal and get the big money when it's his turn. That's how the vast majority of businesses work.
What ur saying makes a great deal of sense, however i feel the NHL unlike another job has become a much more young mans game. The seniority thing just doesent fly. Look at many young players like Crosby, Ovi, Vanek, etc not that he is in that level yet, but it goes to show even as young players the best player usually makes the most money in sports on there team which is what it should be. By your theory Crosby, Malkin, Ovi would not demand that money or should be shamed. For me they deserve it and sports could be a short career so why not take what u can get. What u seem to be saying for example is that if we had Malkin for instance on our team and him him going into RFA seeing what Drury makes and lets say he demanded 8-9 million u would not want him or be aginst highly against it. I know Stall may not be at Malkins level but the comparison with Redden is is quite similar.
If Staal is not a long term Ranger, I promise you all right here that I will quit this team after 30+ years and become a fan of the expansion team I pick out of a hat.
If you have survived the last 10 years (forget 30) and are still here, you ain't going anywhere if Staal leaves.
You see smoneil I disagree with you and totally agree with satrabyk.
I don't care how many years Redden has been in the league or how few Staal has.. Bottom line is Staal is a way better player and much bigger part of the teams potential success than Redden. Now if you give Redden so much money you shouldn't act surprised or get upset when they guy who is that much better than him wants more than 1/3 of his salary. Same deal last year with Drury and Dubinsky.
This is the same reason I agree with the people who say these stupid Redden/Drury contracts hurt the team two fold. One they're obviously awful overpayment and two it makes the young players coming off their elc ask for more than maybe they should because of how much better they are than other players who have gotten so much.
Redden's salary is only one example of a player getting paid a lot for a little. There are plenty of players about as good as Staal who make about the same amount of money and then there are some outliers like Redden. If there are 50 guys about as good as Staal that get ~4 million a year and 3 guys worse than him who get 6+, I don't think those 3 guys examples make much of a base for the argument that Staal should get 6+ too. Redden's contract is a mistake. Staal, his agent and Sather likely all know that. It might give Staal a little bit of an edge I guess but its one example of gross overpayment in contrast to numerous examples of logical contracts.
Question for y'all: has Staal ever talked about whether he likes New York? With some players you can tell they love living/working in New York, but I can't really remember if Staal has talked about it.
I'm wondering because it's possible there is more than money involved. It would be advantageous for the Rangers to sign him to a long-term contract--no problems down the road with arbitration and/or becoming a free agent at 27--and I assume that the longer term contracts Sather has offered pay more money (because he's giving up those rights). On the other hand, the shorter the contract, the less money involved. If Staal is not keen on staying here past free agency, then money becomes a big issue.
By the way, Andrew Gross updated his blog recently and pretty much said to expect that Staal will not be signed by the start of training camp.
Staal is a young up and coming super star defenseman. He goes up against the other team's best players every night because he's capable. No one else comes close. And of course he's not on the same level as Ovi, Malkin, Vanek, and Crosby. Possibly his older brother but not Marc. To me this is a different situation than last years examples of Dubinsky and Callahan. Staal is the best player within this "young core" that Sather speaks of. He would have been signed already if Slats didn't have such an impulsive desire to bring in new names every year. I know the above named players "have more intrigue" than Staal because of the points they put up. Like the old HABS teams of the late 70's. Everyone remembers Guy Lafleur and his HOF resume. But I'll bet there are not as many people outside of Montreal who remember how important Lapointe was (who also happened to get inducted into the Hall) to the success of that team. Bottom line is SJ has no one back there who can play "D" like Staal. Sather has run out of cap room so he'll use terms like leverage or lack there of, to insult the intelligence of Rangers fans. Staal has already proved that he can play against anyone who can score 40 to 50+ goals. He's still only 23 and hasn't peaked offensively. In time he will get stronger, meaner... Welcome to the land of more Sather B S. Enjoy.
Last edited by gravytrain6t: 08-30-2010 at 12:53 AM.
Not upset any apple carts?Piss off his agents by saying he loves being a Ranger and playing in NY thus losing whatever leverage they have as a group II with no arb rights.
Andrew Gross doesn't know what he is talking about. Neither side has said much during the summer. No leaks. No nothing. Gross is left to speculate and wonder like the rest of us.
Paul Krepelka made his first comments on Friday in an email to Craig Custance about wanting to finalize a deal with the Rangers.
If you have survived the last 10 years (forget 30) and are still here, you ain't going anywhere if Staal leaves.
Of course I'm not, but I'll be so damn disappointed. This kid is already an excellent defense man and is only 23. I truly believe he has future Norris potential.
