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Rolston to LA

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Old
08-29-2010, 09:15 AM
  #26
FanHabtic
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LA may have caproom this season but once Doughty and some of their other young stars reach RFA status they will be compensated handsomely and will eat into the precious cap-space. Rolston has 3 years remaining on his overpaid contract. It would be idiotic for LA to take Rolston knowing that they will need the cap-space 1-2 years down the road.

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08-29-2010, 09:24 AM
  #27
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Rolston has two years left on his contract, not three.

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08-29-2010, 09:46 AM
  #28
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hahahaha

good luck getting rid of him, Devils.

He also has a no trade clause, so you can't pawn him off on some ****** team by including a good prospect.

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08-29-2010, 11:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
The Wheeled Winger is not a Devils fan, I think that should be fairly obvious from his username.

Rolston is really overpaid, but he isn't useless. He scored 20 goals last year from the third line playing the majority of his ice time with noted offensive dynamo Rob Niedermayer. He's also very good defensively to boot.

That said, his contract is poison. Next season when he only has one year left, he'll be easier to move. But right now nobody wants to commit $10 M to him over two years.

Clarkson isn't getting traded unless Lou gets really desperate. He was just extended this summer, and Lou treats him like a son. After Brodeur and Elias, he's the most likely player on the Devils roster to be a lifer.
PARISE?!?!?!?!?! after Brodeur and Elias, Parise is the most likely player on the Devils roster to be a lifer.

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08-29-2010, 11:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
PARISE?!?!?!?!?! after Brodeur and Elias, Parise is the most likely player on the Devils roster to be a lifer.
We hope he will be, based on the premise that Lou will do whatever it takes to keep him and that he will probably be offered a lifetime contract extension. But it's not guaranteed he wants to stay. I've never seen Parise say, "I want to spend my career here". Clarkson has done so repeatedly.

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Old
08-29-2010, 12:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Rolston has two years left on his contract, not three.
Regardless, the Kings will need all of their cap-space next season. NO point wasting it on Rolston and facing a cap-hell next season.

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08-29-2010, 12:41 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I hope some of the above may help to persuade you. I should add I'm not a Devil's fan in any form. What I see here is primarily an opportunity for LA to get a small amount of revenge by pillaging the Devils while the time is right.
if by pillaging you mean completely bail the devils out so that they don't have to lose a more valuable asset due to their cap woes (if kovalchuk is signed), then i completely agree with you.

if, however, by pillaging you actually mean pillaging, then i would rather pillage something that the devils aren't trying to give away on a silver platter.

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08-29-2010, 12:45 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I think this is worth a try, LA has the cap space and a reasonable need for secondary scoring, and could use Rolston's shot on the point. New Jersey obviously needs cap space.

NJ sends:

Rolston
Pick (or high end LW prospect)

LA sends:

Mid level defensive prospect

With LA's glut of good defensive prospects, I could see them moving one for a decent pick in addition to taking Rolston as a dump/scoring depth. The main question pertains to Doughty, JJs, & Simmonds new contracts, but I think this can work out fine, as the bigger concern imo is the year after (when Rolston's comes off).

Next year, assuming current roster:

Smyth - Kopitar - Brown
? - Stoll - Simmonds
Rolston - ? - ?
? - Richardson - Parse
?

Doughty - JJ
Mitchell - Scuderi
Greene - Drewiske
?

Quick
?

Let's say Doughty has a 7m hit, JJ has 3.5, Richardson has 1.2 and Simmonds has 3
Cap hit: ~55m

Does LA do this if the asset coming along with Rolston is good enough? If so, what would LA want?
#1...Parse is better than Rolston.
#2 this is the dumbest trade proposal I have seen and Ive made some dumb ones. How would you guys feel if we went on your board and tried to convince you that you needed Randy Jones on your team. Get Lost Troll.

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Old
08-29-2010, 01:26 PM
  #34
Mantha Poodoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
#1...Parse is better than Rolston.
#2 this is the dumbest trade proposal I have seen and Ive made some dumb ones. How would you guys feel if we went on your board and tried to convince you that you needed Randy Jones on your team. Get Lost Troll.
#1. Let me know when Parse can hit 20 goals/37 pts with 3rd line minutes. Perhaps what you mean is that Parse is more valuable than Rolston, which is certainly arguable given Rolston's large contract, but better? A large contract on a player may suck but it doesn't magically detract from his skill.

#2. Well, let's see, RJ is a turd, but we could fit his contract in the cap if we moved a minor roster player... so if you offered, say, Hickey or Voynov and RJ for, say, Miller and one of our mediocre prospects (say Kolosov), I'd deal with a year or two of RJ and laugh all the way home on that one. That's what this deal is equivalent to, as it seems you're conveniently forgetting Tedenby and Vasyunov.

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08-29-2010, 01:58 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
#1. Let me know when Parse can hit 20 goals/37 pts with 3rd line minutes. Perhaps what you mean is that Parse is more valuable than Rolston, which is certainly arguable given Rolston's large contract, but better? A large contract on a player may suck but it doesn't magically detract from his skill.

#2. Well, let's see, RJ is a turd, but we could fit his contract in the cap if we moved a minor roster player... so if you offered, say, Hickey or Voynov and RJ for, say, Miller and one of our mediocre prospects (say Kolosov), I'd deal with a year or two of RJ and laugh all the way home on that one. That's what this deal is equivalent to, as it seems you're conveniently forgetting Tedenby and Vasyunov.
One could argue that Parse could hit those numbers this year for far less than what Rolston makes. I mean Parse scored 11 goals and had 24 points in 59 games with little to no PP time.

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Old
08-29-2010, 02:03 PM
  #36
Mantha Poodoo
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
One could argue that Parse could hit those numbers this year for far less than what Rolston makes. I mean Parse scored 11 goals and had 24 points in 59 games with little to no PP time.
Sure, he might have it in him, but that's only potential while Rolston is proven. In any case, in the given scenario, there's nothing preventing bumping Parse up a line and playing them on opposite wings or Rolston at center.

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08-29-2010, 02:04 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
#2. Well, let's see, RJ is a turd, but we could fit his contract in the cap if we moved a minor roster player... so if you offered, say, Hickey or Voynov and RJ for, say, Miller and one of our mediocre prospects (say Kolosov), I'd deal with a year or two of RJ and laugh all the way home on that one. That's what this deal is equivalent to, as it seems you're conveniently forgetting Tedenby and Vasyunov.
They aren't equivalent at all because Randy Jones wouldn't have a cap hit of over $5 mil for the next two seasons.

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08-29-2010, 02:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
They aren't equivalent at all because Randy Jones wouldn't have a cap hit of over $5 mil for the next two seasons.
That's more equivalent to the Redden contract, then. Rolston at $5m a season, overpaid a number as that is, is worth a hell of a lot more than RJ at $5m a season. Your analogy is terrible.

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08-29-2010, 02:30 PM
  #39
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Just to clarify a few things for some that are in the dark and clearly confused...

1. During the early stages of the offseason, Lombardi said that he wanted to add a dman, and a top six LWer. (On DL's player charts, he notes that he considers the wings to be the least important position on a team, and he always goes for Goalie>Dman>Center>Wings.)

2. He has added Mitchell and Poni (the latter to replace Fro's production on the third line), and since he couldn't nab a sniper during the UFA period, he has mentioned many times that the team is now at the stage that he can trade for players and give up picks/prospects in return because of our loaded prospect pool. He said that the player would have to fit in with the core, and be the right guy. Rolston doesn't fall into any of those columns, and he already traded for Smyth last season to be the gritty, veteran presence for the younger guys. Smyth is a heck of a lot better than Rolston, and for anyone to say otherwise would be foolish.

3. Lombardi has said that he is no longer looking to make deals that boil down to adding prospects/picks to the team by way of taking on salary dumps.

4. He is looking for a top six LW sniper, and Rolston is not it. Just no. And we already have Stoll, who has an inaccurate bomb of a shot, and guys like JJ and Doughty to provide the ultimate shots from the point.

5. With the addition of Poni and Mitchell, plus taking into account a guy like Schenn, Voinov/Hickey making the team, we have less than two mill left in cap space for the new season. So, no, we don't have room for him at all. We would most likely have to trade a guy on the roster to fit in a possible top six player, because the fit would be really tight/impossible.

6. Once the Kings trade for a LW, the only other spot on the team that is a little weak is at center on the second line, but DL will probably just groom Schenn until he is ready for that role.

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08-29-2010, 02:31 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
That's more equivalent to the Redden contract, then. Rolston at $5m a season, overpaid a number as that is, is worth a hell of a lot more than RJ at $5m a season. Your analogy is terrible.
It was YOUR analogy in the first place. You made the comparison between taking on Jones for 2 years being worth it to get some prospects as being the same as taking on Rolston for a few years to get some prospects.

I was saying that the two aren't even comparable because of the salary Rolston makes. The problem with Rolston is the contract. If he was making $2 mil, putting him on the 3rd line for 2 years wouldn't be a bad option. Of course if he was making that, he might not be the guy NJ was trying to dump.

Lombardi isn't going to take Rolston on for prospects (those don't always turn out) and risk having to lose someone he's identified as a core player because he's got an albatross of a contract handcuffing him. I know you came up with all your numbers on how it can work, and while it might work, it's cutting it tight. It leaves little room for flexibility, especially because it's a 35+ contract and the 2nd year. It would make it difficult to make any upgrades to the team. Oh and Schenn's got a rookie cap hit of $3.14 mil and Hickey's is $1.316 (I'm sure there's some bonuses in there). Your calculations also didn't mention Bernier, who might end up the starter and he needs a new contract after this season. If he does take the starting job away from Quick, I'm guessing he'll be asking for a bigger contract than Quick and his $1.8 mil cap hit.

One of the main reasons the Kings have so much cap space is Lombardi hasn't handcuffed them with a horrible contract. There are some players that might be a bit overpaid, but it tends to be in the $500k-$1 mil range. They don't have a Rolston or a Redden on the roster, making millions more than they should. I know some might argue the Smyth contract, and that's the closest thing they have, but right now as they're not near the cap ceiling, it's not a huge issue. I think Lombardi's looked at what's happened to Chicago this summer and does not want to be in that spot. I understand a lot of Chicago's problems came from the Toews/Kane bonuses, but they've also got the Campbell contract as being part of it as well.

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08-29-2010, 02:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
It was YOUR analogy in the first place. You made the comparison between taking on Jones for 2 years being worth it to get some prospects as being the same as taking on Rolston for a few years to get some prospects.
Actually, no. It was someone else that brought up the analogy of RJ to begin with (to be more specific, saintnsoldiers), and I simply responded that at his current price tag, I'd gladly take him on in exchange for a lopsided futures exchange in my favor. You then exaggerated that into RJ magically making $5m a year, which has way more negative value than Rolston making $5m a year.

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Old
08-29-2010, 03:09 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
So just to clarify, you wouldn't trade one of your many mid potential defensive prospects for Tedenby or Vasyunov and a salary dump player who, while overpaid, could help your team this year and not so significantly affect your salary structure next year as to not be worth the very lopsided prospect exchange? Alright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I guess you can lose something you never had. Huh.

On another note, I think the LA fans in this thread so far make a good example of why HF's aversion of overpaid players exits the realm of rational and ends up in the land of absurd at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
#1. Let me know when Parse can hit 20 goals/37 pts with 3rd line minutes. Perhaps what you mean is that Parse is more valuable than Rolston, which is certainly arguable given Rolston's large contract, but better? A large contract on a player may suck but it doesn't magically detract from his skill.
1st off, you come on very rude simply because we do not agree w/ your logic, and that we don't feel the need to elaborate on why, causing you to reply sarcastically and bashing us.

2nd, if Rolston had a 1yr contract ok you'd have a point. But he is 2 years and the Kings anticipate having guys like Parse, Simmonds, Loktionov, Moller, Schenn committed to full time positions by next year. With players like Kopitar, Brown as part of our core as well and Stoll still in the books. Given that we sign a FA that will help us long term (at least that's what teams hope) Adding Rolston will hinder either that extra FA signing, or take a roster from a player who won't be considered a 'prospect' any longer by 2011-12 season. Yes Rolston helps us this year, but you'd be a fool to argue that we will be a valuable piece the following year when he won't even have a spot on the 3rd line by 2011-12. So we dump him in the AHL???

PLUS don't forget that we have Doughty & Johnson to sign to multi year contracts and they won't come cheap.

NJ is giving us their problem this year so that it can be our problem next year. That's what this trade proposal is to me.


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08-29-2010, 03:45 PM
  #43
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So we dump him in the AHL???
35+ contract, we couldn't even do that. and agree with everyone here, unless you give us a HUGE piece with him, it just doesn't make sense.

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08-29-2010, 04:26 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Actually, no. It was someone else that brought up the analogy of RJ to begin with (to be more specific, saintnsoldiers), and I simply responded that at his current price tag, I'd gladly take him on in exchange for a lopsided futures exchange in my favor. You then exaggerated that into RJ magically making $5m a year, which has way more negative value than Rolston making $5m a year.
That's not what I said at all.

You said that you'd take Jones on in order to get a good prospect like Hickey or Voynov (moot point anyways since Jones is TB's problem now, nor would the Kings have needed to dump salary) and your whole premise to the thread is the Kings should do something similar with Rolston to get one of NJ's better prospects.

All I said was that the Jones example and the current Rolston situation aren't comparable because Jones isn't making $5 mil/year. I didn't paint this scenario where Jones is making that much. I just said the scenarios aren't the same because of the salary. If you can't understand the difference between a team potentially needing to dump a marginally overpaid bottom pairing defenseman and Rolston, making $5 mil plus for the next two years on a 35+ you're stuck with the cap hit if aliens abduct him tomorrow contract, that's not my problem.

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08-29-2010, 04:26 PM
  #45
Mantha Poodoo
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
1st off, you come on very rude simply because we do not agree w/ your logic, and that we don't feel the need to elaborate on why, causing you to reply sarcastically and bashing us..[/B]
I'm sorry you feel this way. Perhaps you should examine the posts I had been referring to in the posts of mine you quoted.

1: "For oh so many reasons, I would be more pissed at LA than Have been since anson Carter came here if they acquired Rolston under any circumstances. "

Under any circumstances? Really? You mean NJ could send you all their picks for the next decade and you wouldn't take it? -- So yes, sarcasm to obvious HF hyperbole there.

2: "in my eyes it would be a slap in the face to all L.A fans."

For... what? For the media being wrong? There's nothing in the least bit rational about being that sore over not acquiring an FA that's never touched your team (or even been in the same conference).

3: The poster in question was arguing a guy whose career high in goals is 9 shy of what Rolston scored last season (in fewer games, mind you, and in his first season) while not bring substantially better defense. I'm not saying Parse isn't more valuable, better paid or possessing more potential, but saying he's currently better than a proven 20 goal scorer is once again HF hyperbole regarding players with bad contracts.

On the other hand, you could just as easily quote where I've been polite and lengthy in my explanations to people who put effort and courtesy into their own posts, even if their objections are strong. Let's not pull things too out of context, hm?

If you don't want to face sarcasm and bashing, perhaps the entirety of your post shouldn't be a one line sentence doing just that without explanation. If you want a detailed discussion, then do just that. I'm not going to waste a lot of time replying to baseless irrationality (example in funky's first post "in my eyes it would be a slap in the face to all L.A fans.") but I will to actual discussion (see my much more lengthy reply to funky's more detailed and rational second post).

Back on topic, you're right about the bolded. That's why NJ adds incentive, enough incentive for it to be worth it to LA. Rolston isn't entirely a problem, he can contribute well still, and with sufficient incentive is he worth the relatively minor cap problems (compared to NJ) he'd cause for a young roster next year? I suppose that depends on the incentive. If what I've structured so far is enough, perhaps you'd care to suggest what would be enough incentive for LA to take Rolston on?

And about Rolston not even having a spot on the 3rd line next year, these are your lines next year before any UFAs are re-signed:

Smyth - Kopitar - Brown
? - Schenn? - Simmonds
? - Stoll - Parse
? - Richardson - ?

It looks to me as if there's holes to fill in your left wing next year at 2nd and 3rd line, which given your organizational depth at that position would have to be through re-signings (Poni, if he works out) or free agency. So are you sure there'd be no room for him above the 4th line, aside from a huge dropoff in his play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
All I said was that the Jones example and the current Rolston situation aren't comparable because Jones isn't making $5 mil/year. I didn't paint this scenario where Jones is making that much. I just said the scenarios aren't the same because of the salary. If you can't understand the difference between a team potentially needing to dump a marginally overpaid bottom pairing defenseman and Rolston, making $5 mil plus for the next two years on a 35+ you're stuck with the cap hit if aliens abduct him tomorrow contract, that's not my problem.
I agree with you entirely. Keep in mind I was only replying to an absurd post that suggested taking on RJ at $1m would be equivalent to taking on Rolston at $5m, on two different teams with two different cap situations. I agree it's an entirely irrelevant comparison; that was the point I was making.


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08-29-2010, 04:48 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
1: "For oh so many reasons, I would be more pissed at LA than Have been since anson Carter came here if they acquired Rolston under any circumstances. "

Under any circumstances? Really? You mean NJ could send you all their picks for the next decade and you wouldn't take it? -- So yes, sarcasm to obvious HF hyperbole there.
For the last time, I simply don't like Rolston, as a player, as an ex-Bruin. Yes its irrational. Yes its hyperbole... in a sense. No I don't care that its irrational. Don't want him anywhere near my team, not for 500k, not for $2 mill, and certainly not for $5MM. Not for all the picks in Jersey nor all the tea in China.

I don't mince words. Once again, irrational fan disdain. I choose to embrace it, because its what makes being a fan fun. If I didn't get purposelessly emotional about hockey, I wouldn't want to have anything to do the sport. The same can be said for women.

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08-29-2010, 04:53 PM
  #47
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to The Wheeled Winger...why are you even forcing this trade on us? We don't want him. I'm sure he's amazing and all, but send this gift to another team. I haven't seen one king fan wanting to take on this deal.

So move on, counter propose, do something else

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08-29-2010, 04:59 PM
  #48
Mantha Poodoo
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For the last time, I simply don't like Rolston, as a player, as an ex-Bruin. Yes its irrational. Yes its hyperbole... in a sense. No I don't care that its irrational. Don't want him anywhere near my team, not for 500k, not for $2 mill, and certainly not for $5MM. Not for all the picks in Jersey nor all the tea in China.

I don't mince words. Once again, irrational fan disdain. I choose to embrace it, because its what makes being a fan fun. If I didn't get purposelessly emotional about hockey, I wouldn't want to have anything to do the sport. The same can be said for women.
On the other hand, in a discussion where we're looking at things from a managerial perspective, you have to sweep emotion aside. The trade forum is a place for (hopefully) rational discussion. Emotion does matter to some extent where if someone suggested, say, Foote to the Red Wings, or Bertuzzi to Colorado, where there's clearly a large emotional reason not to do so from the team's perspective.

I applaud your enthusiasm regardless.

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08-29-2010, 05:00 PM
  #49
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Who exactly is the high end LW prospect the OT is offering ?????????/

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08-29-2010, 05:02 PM
  #50
Mantha Poodoo
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
to The Wheeled Winger...why are you even forcing this trade on us? We don't want him. I'm sure he's amazing and all, but send this gift to another team. I haven't seen one king fan wanting to take on this deal.

So move on, counter propose, do something else
I'm just debating here for the sake of discussion. In terms of a counter proposal I've asked what sort of incentive NJ would have to send to make Rolston worth LA's time in your eyes (regardless of whether or not that incentive seems realistic to NJ). I'm a third party poster in this, as are some others in this thread who have suggested that it could make sense for LA with enough incentive. Perhaps you have a suggestion to offer in that regard?

Quote:
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Who exactly is the high end LW prospect the OT is offering ?????????/
Tedenby would make the most sense.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mattias_tedenby

A LW prospect that, if you go by HF's ratings, is about equal in potential to Hickey and Voynov. Dynamic offensive winger that brings both good goalscoring and playmaking, finalist for Elitserien rookie of the year last season. His skillset is best for a top 6 role, and he has potential to be a decent first line winger or at least a good 2nd line wing. He's probably ready for NHL playing time now or next year on a team that can fit him.


Last edited by Mantha Poodoo: 08-29-2010 at 05:10 PM.
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