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Rolston to Colorado

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Old
08-29-2010, 02:29 AM
  #1
Mantha Poodoo
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Rolston to Colorado

As I now live in Colorado, the Avs have become something more than a passing interest or dead rivalry:

Colorado sends:

Decent center prospect

NJ sends:

Rolston
Vasyunov

NJ will have little use for a high end LW prospect with Kovalchuk and Parise, the Avs need one badly. The Avs, meanwhile, are strong and young down the middle (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly) whilst NJ is a bit thin on center prospects. Rolston has no serious salary repercussions for the Avs, can mentor some younger players, and if nothing else, bump up the Avs chances to slip into the playoffs again (which is always good for revenue and gets me some playoff action to go see live next post season).

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08-29-2010, 02:31 AM
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Avs tend to stay clear of Russians these days, and also have no interest in taking on Rolston's contract really. He would have no place on the roster in the current plan of just developing the young guys by letting them play.

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08-29-2010, 02:33 AM
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I think Rolston would look better on Detroit's roster. Maybe Holland should give Lamoriello a call.

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08-29-2010, 02:35 AM
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08-29-2010, 02:37 AM
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Why ... ?

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08-29-2010, 02:38 AM
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Mantha Poodoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
I think Rolston would look better on Detroit's roster. Maybe Holland should give Lamoriello a call.
If NJ can't trade Rolston this year, I wouldn't put that outside the realm of possibility as a deadline deal next year.. but that's thinking far ahead. Detroit has neither the roster nor cap space to do so now.

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08-29-2010, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Avs tend to stay clear of Russians these days, and also have no interest in taking on Rolston's contract really. He would have no place on the roster in the current plan of just developing the young guys by letting them play.
Having a good veteran or two (example: Foote) as mentors is an important part of developing young players. As Rolston would be playing as no higher than a 3rd line wing and possibly a PP point shot (something the Avs could use, anyhow), it'd likely be more beneficial to development than detrimental. As for Russians, so they say about everyone--in the Avs' case, I think it's more about scouting and draft position than an overhyped fear of young Russian players.

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Why ... ?
I dunno, to pick up a good prospect at the Avs' thinnest position in prospect depth?

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08-29-2010, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
As I now live in Colorado, the Avs have become something more than a passing interest or dead rivalry:

Colorado sends:

Decent center prospect

NJ sends:

Rolston
Vasyunov

NJ will have little use for a high end LW prospect with Kovalchuk and Parise, the Avs need one badly. The Avs, meanwhile, are strong and young down the middle (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly) whilst NJ is a bit thin on center prospects. Rolston has no serious salary repercussions for the Avs, can mentor some younger players, and if nothing else, bump up the Avs chances to slip into the playoffs again (which is always good for revenue and gets me some playoff action to go see live next post season).
Except for the fact that he's a 37 year old player making $5,000,000, who really isn't very good anymore.

Would it work with the cap? Sure.

Would it work for Kroenke? I'm one of his biggest supporters, but I doubt he'd let this happen. I mean Rolston has scored 69pts in the last two seasons. That's $145,000 per point. Not cost effective.

No thanks.

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08-29-2010, 02:50 AM
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Two words: Dennis Parshin.

I'd rather send a decent puck moving defenseman prospect for a decent defensive defenseman prospect since Tedenby'd take too much.

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08-29-2010, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
If NJ can't trade Rolston this year, I wouldn't put that outside the realm of possibility as a deadline deal next year.. but that's thinking far ahead. Detroit has neither the roster nor cap space to do so now.
Since the future services of Brian Rolston intrigue the Red Wings franchise so much, Colorado will generously abstain from trading for him. This is a token of the Avalanche's good will and a very kind peace gesture. Best wishes on sorting out your cap space for 2011-2012; may you be happily rewarded.

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08-29-2010, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Two words: Dennis Parshin.

I'd rather send a decent puck moving defenseman prospect for a decent defensive defenseman prospect since Tedenby'd take too much.
The idea of taking on NJ's most desirable salary dump (Rolston) allows you to trade a relatively mediocre prospect (compared to Tedenby) for him. There's a reason that rebuilding teams take on salary dumps, and it's because the dumping team is usually willing to overpay in the rest of the exchange due to the necessity and difficulty of moving their undesirable contract.

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08-29-2010, 03:37 AM
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Colorado isn't paying ten million dollars for a decent prospect.

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08-29-2010, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Colorado isn't paying ten million dollars for a decent prospect.
Montreal isn't paying $33.5m for a second line center, either. Oh, wait..

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08-29-2010, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Montreal isn't paying $33.5m for a second line center, either. Oh, wait..
Yeah, and Montreal has been run by dumbasses lately.

This proposal is idiotic. You couldn't begin to comprehend Colorado's needs, and as for your statement "There's a reason that rebuilding teams take on salary dumps": substantiate it. Name me some rebuilding teams that have taken on large contracts in exchange for "mediocre" (your own words) prospects in recent history.

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08-29-2010, 03:58 AM
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Colorado needs to hit the cap floor, and Rolston's disgusting contract is a quick way to do so. I think his leadership will help that team out a lot, like he did in Minnesota. The reason he isn't racking up points is because he doesn't fit in our top six. Hell, this year he'd probably be on our fourth line.

There's just no room for him here.

Rolston + a first round pick for a seventh should be a little more enticing.

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08-29-2010, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Yeah, and Montreal has been run by dumbasses lately.

This proposal is idiotic. You couldn't begin to comprehend Colorado's needs, and as for your statement "There's a reason that rebuilding teams take on salary dumps": substantiate it. Name me some rebuilding teams that have taken on large contracts in exchange for "mediocre" (your own words) prospects in recent history.
Mediocre referred to the prospect the Avs sends out, not the one they receive. Nice reading comprehension.

However, I'll pretend you read that properly and list an occasion or two where a team has taken a large salary dump in exchange for a perceived gain:

Atlanta acquries Schneider (dump for Ducks, large contract) from the Ducks for spare parts.

Cats send out Van Ryn to acquire McCabe (most definitely a dump for Toronto and a large contract) and a 4th.

Should be able to find more yourself, I'm not doing your footwork.

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08-29-2010, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Crimson Devil View Post
Colorado needs to hit the cap floor
Colorado will hit the cap floor just fine after they sign Mueller and Stewart. No, the (late) first round pick does not do it.

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08-29-2010, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Mediocre referred to the prospect the Avs sends out, not the one they receive. Nice reading comprehension.

However, I'll pretend you read that properly and list an occasion or two where a team has taken a large salary dump in exchange for a perceived gain:

Atlanta acquries Schneider (dump for Ducks, large contract) from the Ducks for spare parts.

Cats send out Van Ryn to acquire McCabe (most definitely a dump for Toronto and a large contract) and a 4th.

Should be able to find more yourself, I'm not doing your footwork.
Well, I was wrong about the mediocre part. Forgive me, it's 4 a.m.

What I'm not wrong about is everything else. Brian McCabe is most definitely not a salary dump acquisition, seeing as he's not only the Panthers captain, but he led the entire team in ice time last season. Not to mention there was no juicy incentive for the Panthers to make the deal.

The Thrashers trade is also laughable for you to present. Yes, the Ducks did end up clearing considerable cap space, yet the Thrashers acquired Schneider because they felt they could use his skills. This is pretty obvious given it was a three-for-one trade, Schneider being the one.

So, what else do you have? It took you 15 minutes to dig up this garbage, neither of which are even remotely similar to the trade you've presented; which is a young team acquiring an old, expensive liability strictly for compensation in another way (prospect). After all, if so many rebuilding teams take salary dumps, why cant you find one example?

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08-29-2010, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Colorado will hit the cap floor just fine after they sign Mueller and Stewart. No, the (late) first round pick does not do it.
I think that depends on how willing the team is willing to invest monetarily to continue to improve the future. Some would happily burn that kind of money for a late 1st, others are too tight financially.

It's not like Rolston completely disappears either.. $10m doesn't just disappear into the void while Rolston goes to some tropical island and sips mimosa. His play isn't that bad yet . $5m over 2 years for just a 1st round pick: eh. $5m over 2 years for a late 1st and an experienced player who's still good for 40 points, gives the PP a good shot and can mentor the young roster while not getting in their way? I could see a GM jumping on that.

Lou knows he needs to trade Rolston and he knows he has spare assets to burn as incentive (such as 2 good LW prospects when he's likely about to have 2 of the best LWs in the league locked up for many years). Somebody's gonna bite; I happen to think the Avs and the Kings benefit the most while having the most wiggle room financially.

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08-29-2010, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Well, I was wrong about the mediocre part. Forgive me, it's 4 a.m.

What I'm not wrong about is everything else. Brian McCabe is most definitely not a salary dump acquisition, seeing as he's not only the Panthers captain, but he led the entire team in ice time last season. Not to mention there was no juicy incentive for the Panthers to make the deal.

The Thrashers trade is also laughable for you to present. Yes, the Ducks did end up clearing considerable cap space, yet the Thrashers acquired Schneider because they felt they could use his skills. This is pretty obvious given it was a three-for-one trade, Schneider being the one.

So, what else do you have? It took you 15 minutes to dig up this garbage, neither of which are even remotely similar to the trade you've presented; which is a young team acquiring an old, expensive liability strictly for compensation in another way (prospect). After all, if so many rebuilding teams take salary dumps, why cant you find one example?
Both of these were off the top of my head. Schneider fit my example perfectly: the Thrashers took on a dump because they thought it would benefit them. That's what you were looking for. I think you're also forgetting the circumstances of the McCabe trade and the reaction around here. At the time, Toronto fans were ready to ride McCabe out on a rail and he was largely considered an overpaid, underperforming defenseman on these boards. Regardless, the Cats thought he could improve their team (in addition to the 4th rounder) and took him on as a dump (as it was a dump for the Leafs) as a result. They were fortunate in that it turned out well for them.

Let that serve as a good example of unexpected results as well, where a team like Colorado or LA could take on a 'dump' in Rolston, largely considered an overpaid player, and end up with a surprising result. HF treats large/risky contracts more venomously than managers do; unlike us, their salary is dependent on the results of hockey management, and sometimes they do risky, questionable, or sometimes bat**** insane things (Phaneuf trade, anyone?) in an effort to improve their team and keep their job.

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08-29-2010, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Somebody's gonna bite
Exactly what have the Avs done recently that you think Colorado will be the one to bite? Anything is 'possible' but it is not realistic. If they were going to make any type of move, it would have been to defense but the brass has been completely silent this off-season in the FA market.

It is very possible Hishon fits that LW role one day or we trade for a promising prospect by dealing off from our strength -- two-way or offensive defensemen -- and save the odd $10M or so in salary in the process. Also, maybe management would prefer using the roster spot Rolston would take for developmental purposes.

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08-29-2010, 04:32 AM
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Mantha Poodoo
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Exactly what have the Avs done recently that you think Colorado will be the one to bite? Anything is 'possible' but it is not realistic. If they were going to make any type of move, it would have been to defense but the brass has been completely silent this off-season in the FA market.

It is very possible Hishon fits that LW role one day or we trade for a promising prospect by dealing off from our strength -- two-way or offensive defensemen -- and save the odd $10M or so in salary in the process. Also, maybe management would prefer using the roster spot Rolston would take for developmental purposes.
Nothing, but 'nothing' is the answer to the same question for a large number of moves that have happened in recent hockey history. What I do see is a potential to exploit a team in a vulnerable position while another is in a good position to potentially benefit. Whether Lou is willing to give up assets to clear cap space and whether another team is willing to spend some money in a chance to improve their future is up to them, but there's nothing given the trading history in the NHL since the deadline to suggest its outside of the realms of possiblity, either.

There's a reasonable argument about whether or not having noone in their top 9 above the age of 25 except Hejduk to play alongside their young players would be beneficial to their development. Detroit, as an example (not the only one) are known to keep their prospects playing top line minutes in the AHL for what's often considered an inordinate amount of time around here, slowly bring them up to play alongside their veteran players, and I'd say their development works well enough. Even if you don't use them in top minutes, having a small, solid group of veterans playing important roles can be an anchor of stability for a volatile and unpredictable young team.

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08-29-2010, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Both of these were off the top of my head. Schneider fit my example perfectly: the Thrashers took on a dump because they thought it would benefit them. That's what you were looking for. I think you're also forgetting the circumstances of the McCabe trade and the reaction around here. At the time, Toronto fans were ready to ride McCabe out on a rail and he was largely considered an overpaid, underperforming defenseman on these boards. Regardless, the Cats thought he could improve their team (in addition to the 4th rounder) and took him on as a dump (as it was a dump for the Leafs) as a result. They were fortunate in that it turned out well for them.

Let that serve as a good example of unexpected results as well, where a team like Colorado or LA could take on a 'dump' in Rolston, largely considered an overpaid player, and end up with a surprising result. HF treats large/risky contracts more venomously than managers do; unlike us, their salary is dependent on the results of hockey management, and sometimes they do risky, questionable, or sometimes bat**** insane things (Phaneuf trade, anyone?) in an effort to improve their team and keep their job.
There's a big difference between acquiring a high salary player coming off a good season (or in Schneider's case, a string of multiple good seasons) than there is acquiring what's considered an extremely low bang-for-your-buck player with a courtesy pick or prospect attached to him. Same with McCabe, who while clearly hated in Toronto, was still considered and has proven to be a serviceable defenseman in Florida.

Rolston, on the other hand, carries an insane salary, and he (a scoring player) seems to be the odd man out on a Devils team that was a low scoring team last year; he'd literally be on the fourth line on both LA and Colorado.

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08-29-2010, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
There's a big difference between acquiring a high salary player coming off a good season (or in Schneider's case, a string of multiple good seasons) than there is acquiring what's considered an extremely low bang-for-your-buck player with a courtesy pick or prospect attached to him. Same with McCabe, who while clearly hated in Toronto, was still considered and has proven to be a serviceable defenseman in Florida.

Rolston, on the other hand, carries an insane salary, and he (a scoring player) seems to be the odd man out on a Devils team that was a low scoring team last year; he'd literally be on the fourth line on both LA and Colorado.
Schneider was overpaid by Anaheim when they acquired him and then performed quite poorly (hence the trade). The Thrashers took a risk and it turned out poorly.

McCabe was not considered living up to anywhere near his contract at the time he was traded on these forums. In fact, the way Rolston is regarded to his salary now is fairly comparable. He was one of the major 'joke salaries' on HF at that time. The Cats took a risk and it turned out well (and they even got a token pick to mount up on their trophy wall).

Meanwhile, I find your assertion that Rolston (a roughly 40 pt player with 3rd line minutes judging by his NJ performance last year) would be a 4th line player on a LA team lacking LW depth to be questionable, to say the least. Ponikarovsky is an unknown for them at the moment: he could be the 55-60 pt player he was in Toronto (with lots of minutes), or he could be the 35-40 pt player he was in the playoffs for the Pens. In any case, I certainly wouldn't fall back on the depth behind him.

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08-29-2010, 04:46 AM
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there's nothing given the trading history in the NHL since the deadline to suggest its outside of the realms of possiblity, either
This topic is about two teams: the Colorado Avalanche and the New Jersey Devils. If you want to indulge in a hypothetical, do it with an unnamed club then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
There's a reasonable argument about whether or not having noone in their top 9 above the age of 25 except Hejduk to play alongside their young players would be beneficial to their development. Detroit, as an example (not the only one) are known to keep their prospects playing top line minutes in the AHL for what's often considered an inordinate amount of time
And there's a reasonable argument that some of Detroit's fruit grows rotten. The Avs aren't rushing anyone - the youth has earned its spot in the lineup, it's up to them to continue living up to raised expectations; if a leader was required, Tucker would have been re-signed for a bottom six role. Unless Rolston comes with a time machine or a prospect like Urbom, no interest.

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