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Trading up with the Panthers?

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06-01-2004, 03:07 PM
  #1
CanmoreMike
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Trading up with the Panthers?

This might be a little late, but with Keenan moving into the GM position in Florida it has been suggested that a number of dogs he wasn't satisfied with might be moved off. Matheson suggested Hagman or Huselius for Isbister. I for one would be more inclined to see us find ourselves a nice centre, particularily Steve Weiss. He's not huge by any means, but he has had flashes of brilliance and the Oilers were apparently hot after him (or maybe that was some HF posters like myself) when Comrie was on the block. My question is - why not?

He adds some skill upfront and provided Nedved returns, he wouldn't feel the heat that Comrie felt in the two years following Weight's departure.

Tell me what you think...

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06-01-2004, 03:26 PM
  #2
Larry Fisher
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I like the idea...no doubt about it but when I read the title I thought we were talking trading up the #7 position in this year's entry draft and I personally like that idea.

We could pull a slight blockbuster deal and bring in both Weiss and the #7 pick and my proposal would be:

To Florida: Eric Brewer, Brad Isbister, our first rounder (14) and Philly's first rounder (25)

To Edmonton: Stephen Weiss, one of Branislav Mezei/Mike Van Ryan/Lukas Kracjek and the #7 overall pick.

I would break it down like this:

Brewer and Philly's first (25) = #7 overall
Our first rounder (14) and Isbister = Weiss and one of Mezei/Van Ryan/Kracjek

IMO that is quite fair and if anything we might have to add a depth player like Jason Chimera/Fernando Pisani to the mix. The only thing I don't like is the fact we now only have the one first rounder but we potentially acquire two former first rounders (Weiss/Kracjek) along with a higher pick.

Who knows maybe Florida has interest in a skill guy like Jani Rita and would prefer him over Philly's first in what has been deemed by some a weaker draft.

I will put this on the table and see what Florida fans have to say:

To Florida: Eric Brewer, Brad Isbister, Jani Rita and the 14th overall pick

To Edmonton: Stephen Weiss, one of Mezei/Van Ryan/Kracjek and the 7th overall pick

Comments? Criticisms? Praise?

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06-01-2004, 03:29 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Brewer and Philly's first (25) = #7 overall
Not in a million years.

I wouldn't trade Brewer straight up for the #7 overall pick.

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06-01-2004, 03:33 PM
  #4
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Salostyle: I like the idea, but for once, Edmonton loses a deal on this board here.

Brewer alone is probobly worth about as much or maybe more than the #7 overall. So let me try this:

Brewer & Horcoff for Weiss & the #7 overall pick That seems a bit more reasonable.

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06-01-2004, 03:39 PM
  #5
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Not in a million years.

I wouldn't trade Brewer straight up for the #7 overall pick.

I'm with Dawg. Brewer should command WAY more then that.

I would do Brewer up straight for the number 1 or 2 pick and that is about it. Anything lower then that and I want something back too.

Brewer has an incredibly high ceiling and is only 25. He has been named to the Olympic and World Cup teams and has been on the last 3 Gold Medal winning International Men's teams. He just played along side Neidermeyer in the World Championships and didn't look too out of place and Scotty is a Norris winner (after this year).

Brewer only gets moved for an overpayment. Unless he is asking for 5 mill or something stupid like that

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Old
06-01-2004, 03:41 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Salostyle: I like the idea, but for once, Edmonton loses a deal on this board here.

Brewer alone is probobly worth about as much or maybe more than the #7 overall. So let me try this:

Brewer & Horcoff for Weiss & the #7 overall pick That seems a bit more reasonable.
That's pretty decent value-wise but I just can't see the Oilers moving Brewer as we have no one in the organization that is capable of soaking up his minutes (yet)..

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06-01-2004, 03:42 PM
  #7
Larry Fisher
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It definitely seems more reasonable Mizral. I guess I tend to underrate Brewer at times and I agree with you and Dawgbone.

The only thing is I really like Lukas Kracjek and he will be a PP quarterback one day in this league and he will turn a lot of heads. I would love to snag him in this deal too...how would you work him in?

Maybe something like:

To Florida: Brewer, Horcoff and Philly's first or Rita

To Edmonton: Weiss, Kracjek and #7 overall (hopefully Tukonen/Schremp/Stafford)

Hows that look?

P.S. = I jumped the gun boys and posted those other proposals on the trade rumors board and on the Panthers board so we will see what kind of a reaction they put forth and it wouldn't be a horrible idea to refine the deals with your proposals on those boards.

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Old
06-01-2004, 03:43 PM
  #8
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Salostyle: I like the idea, but for once, Edmonton loses a deal on this board here.

Brewer alone is probobly worth about as much or maybe more than the #7 overall. So let me try this:

Brewer & Horcoff for Weiss & the #7 overall pick That seems a bit more reasonable.

Hmm that is closer. But if we are looking to make moves like that I would target Chicago and their 1st and Arnason.

Brewer Horc Isbister for Chicago's 1st and Arnason ??

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06-01-2004, 04:03 PM
  #9
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Do you guys actually wanna win someday? I don't see why everyone keeps talking about trading Brewer/Hemsky all the time, its starting to make me sick. Do you actually believe that 7th overall will turn out better than Brewer will? Even if the odds are beaten and this 7th overall comes out much better, he'll be making even more money than Brewer and you'll all want to trade him too for another high first rounder and the cycle will continue.

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06-01-2004, 04:12 PM
  #10
Cerebral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggyman
Do you guys actually wanna win someday? I don't see why everyone keeps talking about trading Brewer/Hemsky all the time, its starting to make me sick. Do you actually believe that 7th overall will turn out better than Brewer will? Even if the odds are beaten and this 7th overall comes out much better, he'll be making even more money than Brewer and you'll all want to trade him too for another high first rounder and the cycle will continue.

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06-01-2004, 04:13 PM
  #11
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Why do we want Weiss or Arnason???
Don't you think they should try resigning Nedved before looking for another offensive center?
I'm starting to think that if a guy like Radulov is gone at 14 the Oilers might trade down.
Jason Smith for the 7th overall might even be overpaying, but more likely than Brewer.

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Old
06-01-2004, 04:16 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Jason Smith for the 7th overall might even be overpaying, but more likely than Brewer.
We're not going to get the 7th OA pick for Jason Smith. Smith + our first rounder might get us close but I'm still not sure if Keenan would pull the trigger..

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Old
06-01-2004, 04:17 PM
  #13
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Why do we want Weiss or Arnason???
Don't you think they should try resigning Nedved before looking for another offensive center?
I'm starting to think that if a guy like Radulov is gone at 14 the Oilers might trade down.
Jason Smith for the 7th overall might even be overpaying, but more likely than Brewer.
I was thinking of one of them for 2nd line duties if Horc is moved.

But I do agree that trading Brewer would be stupid right now.

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Old
06-01-2004, 05:09 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggyman
Do you guys actually wanna win someday? I don't see why everyone keeps talking about trading Brewer/Hemsky all the time, its starting to make me sick. Do you actually believe that 7th overall will turn out better than Brewer will? Even if the odds are beaten and this 7th overall comes out much better, he'll be making even more money than Brewer and you'll all want to trade him too for another high first rounder and the cycle will continue.
Exactly. You guys are on drugs again. Who's going to be the #1 pairing then without Brewer? Krajicek? hahahaha, take another smoke. Semenov? Or maybe Lynch Woywitka you expect to take the league by storm next year. Smith might be the only one capable of being #1, but even then, he's is an average #2, and a better #3 dman than #1. Stop your trade wheels for a while.

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06-01-2004, 06:18 PM
  #15
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Why not just:

To Edmonton: 7th overall, Stephen Weiss
To Florida: 14th overall (or Isbister), Eric Brewer (and maybe Rita?)

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Old
06-01-2004, 06:28 PM
  #16
Narnia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergeron47
Why not just:

To Edmonton: 7th overall, Stephen Weiss
To Florida: 14th overall (or Isbister), Eric Brewer (and maybe Rita?)
Some of you guys are really nuts. You guys complain that Calgary is is in the SC Finals and is small market. What do most fans trade. The better players. This team needs to stay together or else the Oilers are never gonna make it past the first round.

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Old
06-01-2004, 07:05 PM
  #17
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergeron47
Why not just:

To Edmonton: 7th overall, Stephen Weiss
To Florida: 14th overall (or Isbister), Eric Brewer (and maybe Rita?)

Wow...

Next time could you use a little lube?

Ouch...

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Old
06-01-2004, 08:43 PM
  #18
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Still don't like the idea of tampering with our young defense (Brewer, Semenov, Woywitka, Lynch, Greene). Let's leave these guys out of proposals unless someone really knocks our socks off. If Weiss is really available, why don't we look at moving a pick/ prospects and parts to get him. Isbister, even if he is a keenan type, will play in Edmonton next season or will have to be given away. His trade value is that low right now.

Suggestion:

Weiss ----- for ----- Smith, Rita, Philly's 3rd 04

Followed by...

McKee, Afinogenov ----- for ----- Salmelainen, Philly's 1st 04, low-tier prospect

LINEUP:

Torres Nedved Dvorak
Smyth York Hemsky/ Afinogenov
Moreau Stoll Isbister/ Afinogenov
Horcoff Weiss/ Reasoner Laraque

Brewer Semenov
Staois McKee
Bergeron Ulanov/Cross

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Old
06-01-2004, 08:46 PM
  #19
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No way, no how do we trade Eric Brewer ... least of all for non-NHL roster prospects or picks. The Oil have spent too much in his development and can't let Brewer go as he moves into peak years. It will take a major, major overpayment.

As to Stephen Weiss, I target him immediately and sell Keenan on one of our veteran defensemen (likely Smith). I would then seek to slot Weiss into the number two centre spot where he could develop nicely with offensive opportunity but not necessary 'go-to' pressure which will help his development. Weiss was foolishly rushed into the NHL two years ago and has had his confidence hurt by it and compounded by Keenan's forceful approach. Well worth the gamble on this highly regarded prospect who could use a fresh start and benefit from a home in the less physical Western Conference. Additionally, versatile enough to move down the roster if the second line scoring isn't there quite yet.

I would personally gamble on Weiss' pedigree before Arnason who has been criticized for conditioning and lack of team play. I believe it was also Arnason and Housley who were with Theo Fleury and subsequently abandoned him in that strip bar incident a couple of year back with ripped apart the Chicago lockerrun. Nice teammates.

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Old
06-01-2004, 08:56 PM
  #20
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IMO a realistic draft day deal is:

Smith, Isbister, phillies first, third
for
Weiss, FLA first

Iron mike would lose a guy he's not crazy about and get two guys who are the exact type he loves/needs in FLA and all it costs him is the drop of about 20 spots in the draft (which is also subsidized by the third the Oilers include).

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06-01-2004, 09:00 PM
  #21
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That would be nice, but there's no way Florida takes on that much salary unless Isbister has already signed a new longer term contract for less per year than his qualifier.

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06-01-2004, 09:14 PM
  #22
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With Florida, I would begin with Weiss and Jason Smith as the core of a bigger trade. From there, I would nibble for one of Florida's young offensemen (Krajicek or Novak) and pitch a package of Isbister, picks, or Rita.

Florida would get their big, tough physical defenseman and veteran leader for a very young team. And with Isbister, Iron Mike gets another big forward project who might mold nicely under the tough love of the puppet master. Add picks or if really attractive trade package, consider Rita or even Chimera. Edmonton gets coveted young, NHL ready players at key positions of centre and power play defenseman. Lots of upside and fairly qualified risks as they have NHL game experience.

Mike Keenan, let's make a deal!

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Old
06-02-2004, 01:09 PM
  #23
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If the Oilers are interested in Weiss, then we'll have to give up more than Smith, a 1year left RFA and Isbister.

to FLA: Smith, Isbister, Horcoff, Philly 1st

To EDM: Weiss, Hagman, FLA 2nd.

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Old
06-02-2004, 03:29 PM
  #24
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I just want to throw in here that Iron Mike won't get to mold the players like some people are suggesting. He's the GM and only that, not the coach. So let's focus on the type of player Jacques Martin like to develop (unless Iron Mike goes power tripping and tries to do some coaching duties also...)

I like the sounds of Weiss and Smith as part of a major deal, with or without picks. FLA seems like a great fit for the veteran Gator, and Weiss would be a great fit behind P. Nedved.

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Old
06-02-2004, 03:59 PM
  #25
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that is a very good point - and in that case a guy like Weiss would be right down Martin's alley - that bugger is gonna turn that team into a great team- we shoulda canned MacT and got him (just like we should have done when Hitch was available - can you imagine Dallas firing Hitch then us signing him, lol?)

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