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2010-2011 Hershey Bears (AHL)/South Carolina Stingrays (ECHL) Thread

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Old
04-24-2011, 08:01 PM
  #651
sk84fun_dc
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Also, they can bring Orlov to DC to practice/skate/gain exposure, but he's not under NHL contract this season, so it wouldn't be an official recall and he couldn't play.

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04-25-2011, 09:00 AM
  #652
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Dissapointing loss for the Bears. Especially, given how many vets are on this team. "The winning environment" experiment by Yingst and French will have to wait till next year. Wonder if their younger players will actually get to play then or if it's going to be Yingst ego tripping again.

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04-25-2011, 12:56 PM
  #653
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Dissapointing loss for the Bears. Especially, given how many vets are on this team. "The winning environment" experiment by Yingst and French will have to wait till next year. Wonder if their younger players will actually get to play then or if it's going to be Yingst ego tripping again.
Which younger players? A good chance Bouch doesn't get resigned, Pinner was playing a lot of minutes and on the top line, Gordon was top line and got some Washington games this year, Holtby was the number 1 all year, McNeill was always in once he got back, MP was on the second line but he was also in Washington for 35 games and Bruess was worked into the line up a lot.

Kugryshev, there might be a little bit of discussion there, but look at Eakin and the three or four other prospects right behind him. He's working with a small time span as it was. You have to be an almost exceptional talent to have the red carpet rolled out for you in Hershey and that is the way it should be.

Also, I think you're in the minority thinking Yingst is doing it wrong. Look at Pens/Baby Pens, Canucks/Moose and Sabres/Pirates. There are a lot of teams moving to that style of management.

Last point. Look at Osala. He made it know that he thought his playing time was lacking and look where he is now? Still in the AHL while in an organization that is lacking somewhat in the offensive areas. He only got a NHL game because the Canes were playing the Caps.

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04-25-2011, 01:59 PM
  #654
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Kugryshev seems like the only youngster not really put in a prime role to succeed but, frankly, his drive has always been somewhat questionable. He probably should have remained in Russia to develop there and then make the jump to NA.

There's potential for significant turnover in Hershey next season and it's probably a needed change. I'm a little surprised the Caps haven't signed any young free agents to entry-level deals to this point to boost their depth, although not being able to at least promise a spot in Hershey to finish the season can't be too helpful. Plenty of time to sort that out but there's a lot of fringe QO players and Group VI UFAs down there at the moment.

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04-25-2011, 06:15 PM
  #655
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Yes, I took that comment to be in large part about Kugryshev, but could be wrong. LetsGoBears, you left Orlov out of your comments, but I'd also note, Pinizzotto isn't a kid anymore.

As to next year, add Orlov and Eakin. Kugryshev will be battling for more playing time. There's a good chance Grubauer, Flemming, and Mitchell will be competing for roster spots, although some could see time in the ECHL, too, in particular Grubauer unless they choose a different development path for him.

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04-25-2011, 07:53 PM
  #656
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Yes, I took that comment to be in large part about Kugryshev, but could be wrong. LetsGoBears, you left Orlov out of your comments, but I'd also note, Pinizzotto isn't a kid anymore.

As to next year, add Orlov and Eakin. Kugryshev will be battling for more playing time. There's a good chance Grubauer, Flemming, and Mitchell will be competing for roster spots, although some could see time in the ECHL, too, in particular Grubauer unless they choose a different development path for him.
Opps. Meant to put a blurb about Orlov being in the same class as Varly, Neuvy, Carlson and Alzner being under that exceptional talent category. Orlov in my best guess will be in Hershey all of next year tops.

A lot of the guys i've named were in their last year or already past their ELCs. Trying to make a point that really only Kugryshev was new blood. There is small stretches of playing that I would say he is the best puck handler on and off the boards on the roster. That is saying something with the likes of Aucion and MP on the team, but he was more often prone to lazy/out of water play. I will say it was odd that he was never sent down to ECHL for playing time.

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04-25-2011, 08:48 PM
  #657
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Kugryshev was sent down for 1 3 game stint.

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04-25-2011, 11:13 PM
  #658
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Kugryshev was sent down for 1 3 game stint.
I want to say that is when the Rays were up in Reading or the All-Star break?

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04-26-2011, 10:52 AM
  #659
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Kygie was sent dow to SC, while they were down in SC. But that's neither here nor there. Kugrishev's main problem is that he is a perimeter player. Hardly goes in the middle because that's where you get hit by big tough defensemen and it takes balls to do it. Now to say that Kugrishev should have stayed in Russia to develop makes no sense to me for a few reasons. He was playing in the Q prior to turning a pro and it is the AHL and not the KHL that is a development league after all, not the other way around. If anything the Bears/the Caps should have kept Kygie down in SC longer, maybe even all season to gain more confidence. I dont think the Bears have developed anything up front this year beyond what they already had as their top 6. So next year I see Yingst re-signing a bunch of seasoned pros and PTOs to fill their gaps yet again. Honestly, I see a repeat of this year if this trend continues. Yinst needs to just settle down a bit and realize the fact that no matter how many championships he won, he's still managing a development team. And I'm not talking about your high draft picks such as Johansson, Alzner and Carlsson (some of them are NHL ready anyway or on the bubble) I am talking developing your late round picks or young free agent signees into NHL ready pros. And that's where the Bears failed. Eakin and Orlov will be next year's projects while a handfull of others will be "black aces" or scratched or as some of you put it "battling for ice time". Well when you battle for ice time you do not develop.
Ice time=development in the AHL! What type of development did Willsie, Greentree or Souray need? zero!


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04-26-2011, 12:06 PM
  #660
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McPhee signed Willsie and Greentree, not Yingst. The Souray loan doesn't happen without McPhee agreeing either I'd reckon. The lack of quality rookie options is on the NHL GM not bringing them into the org. and prioritizing their development. No question that everyone (that market especially) needs to face the reality that the past two years were something special and that development is essential to winning. There are some aging prospects that may get a sniff in the NHL elsewhere going forward (Pinizzotto, AGordon, Perreault) just not likely with the big club. Again, though, it's not really on Yingst to find quality amateurs ready to contribute at the AHL level and develop into key pieces. If Yingst is signing players to AHL deals it's to address depth issues the parent club hasn't supplied.

Re: the KHL I meant that mostly for conditioning/softness reasons. The KHL isn't a developmental league but it is--at its best, albeit with frequent exceptions--a meritocracy. He would have had to fight for ice-time in a way that he didn't in the Q because of his skill level. For that reason I think he would be a more dynamic and well-rounded player heading into Hershey if he went that route instead.

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04-26-2011, 12:21 PM
  #661
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Also to think that Yingst is doing anything with full independence from DC/GMGM is a bit naive. The Bears have been a fairly independent AHL team over its history, but it would be nuts to ruin the current relationship. Hershey is a quick ride up/down 83 from a large and rapidly expanding NHL fan base. Hershey has always pulled good crowds, but that perk has more then likely help put Hershey in the spot of blowing away attendance numbers of all other hockey except the NHL. Add in the tremendous job the Caps scouting, and DC is in more Hershey dealings then you might think.

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04-26-2011, 02:30 PM
  #662
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From Leone's twitter:

Holtby, Perreault, McNeill, Pinizzotto and Gordon (when healthy) going up to Washington.

Yingst said HER-WAS staying affiliated: "Our affiliation agreement has been extended through another season, through the 2011-12 season."

Yingst also said Mark French, Troy Mann under contract for 2011-12. I think Mann could be an AHL head coaching candidate, though.



- - - -

No surprise on the affiliation. Glad to see the recalls and note Pinizzotto being in the group. A little surprised that Aucoin and/or Willsie weren't recalled. I'm assuming Aucoin is hurt, but having Perreault available is another issue. Also, Willsie was effective for Hershey this season and in the playoffs, so hes the other player I was thinking could be recalled, in particular with Gordon hurt. I wonder if its 100% a decision to not recall him or possibly an injury or the fact hes got a family.

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04-26-2011, 02:47 PM
  #663
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Re: the KHL I meant that mostly for conditioning/softness reasons. The KHL isn't a developmental league but it is--at its best, albeit with frequent exceptions--a meritocracy. He would have had to fight for ice-time in a way that he didn't in the Q because of his skill level. For that reason I think he would be a more dynamic and well-rounded player heading into Hershey if he went that route instead.
For a younger hockey player it makes no sense to go the major juniors route only to end up back in Russia without having spent any time in the NHL. KHL is not even guaranteed at this point. Babchuk and Hudler come to mind, but those two have won the cup before the went KHL and then came back and landed a roster spot with their team.

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04-26-2011, 02:53 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBears View Post
Also to think that Yingst is doing anything with full independence from DC/GMGM is a bit naive. The Bears have been a fairly independent AHL team over its history, but it would be nuts to ruin the current relationship. Hershey is a quick ride up/down 83 from a large and rapidly expanding NHL fan base. Hershey has always pulled good crowds, but that perk has more then likely help put Hershey in the spot of blowing away attendance numbers of all other hockey except the NHL. Add in the tremendous job the Caps scouting, and DC is in more Hershey dealings then you might think.
I seriously doubt mcphee makes game-time roster decisions for the Bears. He signs Caps players, sends them down, calls them up, asks for scouting reports. Dougy is known to come into the locker room and tell French who to play and who to scratch. He runs that team entirely. French is just a messenger. Ask some of the bears players if you have access to them.


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04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
  #665
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For a younger hockey player it makes no sense to go the major juniors route only to end up back in Russia without having spent any time in the NHL. KHL is not even guaranteed at this point. Babchuk and Hudler come to mind, but those two have won the cup before the went KHL and then came back and landed a roster spot with their team.
I wasn't arguing him going to the KHL vs. AHL at 20 but rather the two post-draft seasons spent in the CHL vs. KHL. Every player is different so I don't think the CHL is necessarily a bad move for import players but in his case I'm not sure it was for the best.


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04-26-2011, 03:03 PM
  #666
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I seriously doubt mcphee makes game-time roster decisions for the Bears. He signs Caps players, sends them down, calls them up, asks for scouting reports. Dougy is known to come into the locker room and tell French who to play and who to scratch. He runs that team entirely. French is just a messenger. Ask some of the bears players if you have access to them.
And some of those directions come down from above to Yingst, which is what people are saying. There are post-game press conferences where French has been asked whether a goalie will be starting and French has said he needs to hear from Washington before he can say.

Hershey has independence compared to some affiliates, but they are not independent.

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04-26-2011, 03:10 PM
  #667
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I wasn't arguing him going to the KHL vs. AHL at 20 but rather the two post-draft seasons spent in the CHL vs. KHL. Every player is different so I don't think the CHL is necessarily a bad move for import players but in his case I'm not sure it was for the best.
Ok I understand. However, if you looked at the KHL - it's current politics is the reason why younger Russians are forced to leave for CHL and other leagues. KHL is a money making machine, more like a money-laundering machine for big sponsors. Those sponsors want results right away so younger players aren't signed and developed, it's the retiring NHL vets who get signed instead because they have more experience. Look at the last two Gagarin Cup winners - Ufa and Kazan and look at how many younger players they have. Burmistrov comes to mind - he's a product of Kazan Ak Bars youth hockey school, yet he left for CHL early on because according to his own words wasnt getting any ice time. Good thing he landed on an underachiever like Thrashers and made their roster. Otherwise he's be facing the same dilemma as Kygrishev.

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04-26-2011, 03:12 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
And some of those directions come down from above to Yingst, which is what people are saying. There are post-game press conferences where French has been asked whether a goalie will be starting and French has said he needs to hear from Washington before he can say.

Hershey has independence compared to some affiliates, but they are not independent.
Goalies - possibly yes. everyone else - no no and no. you are mistaken. A gm never tells a head coach who to play and who to scratch! Caps GM never tells Yinst or French who to start. Those pressers you referring to were during injuries to all three caps goalies, hence French's comments. they could consult with their head coach but to come into the locker room and tell the head coach who to start - now that's KHL style right there.


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04-26-2011, 03:15 PM
  #669
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Goalies - yes. everyone else - no no and no. you are mistaken.

Well you think I'm mistaken about everything I post so nothing new; in some cases the decisions are made in Hershey; in some cases word comes down from Washington.

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04-26-2011, 03:29 PM
  #670
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Well you think I'm mistaken about everything I post so nothing new; in some cases the decisions are made in Hershey; in some cases word comes down from Washington.
Everything? U're pretty good with stats and links.


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04-26-2011, 03:45 PM
  #671
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Red Wings-Grand Rapids organization draws an example of a perfect "marriage" between a development team and it's parent club for obvious reasons including four stanley cups since the 90's. now for the caps-bears affiliation - a bunch of cups for the bears and zero cups for the parent club. other than that everything makes perfect sense including their close geographical proximity.


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04-26-2011, 04:00 PM
  #672
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Way to compare 5 years to 10 years!


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04-26-2011, 04:06 PM
  #673
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Way to compare 5 years to 10+ years!
LOL You can compare the last 5 if you wish. all these calders for the bears have not translated into any cups of even stanley cup finals appearances for the caps. Red Wings in the mean time snatched up the cup in 07-08 and went into the finals the following year. thank you very much.


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04-26-2011, 06:10 PM
  #674
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LOL You can compare the last 5 if you wish. all these calders for the bears have not translated into any cups of even stanley cup finals appearances for the caps. Red Wings in the mean time snatched up the cup in 07-08 and went into the finals the following year. thank you very much.
Do you seriously believe that the affiliation with Grand Rapids had anything, whatsoever, to do with the success of the Red Wings?

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