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Burnside: Tortorella on hot seat

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Old
09-07-2010, 06:00 PM
  #101
offdacrossbar
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this latest fedotenko rumour further reinforces my belief that torts the clown has more imput/impact on the roster than many here believe.

i mean its the clowns relationship with his former player thats getting him the tryout. thats pretty obvious.

dont for a second think that torts the clown doesnt have an enormous say in who

makes the team
dresses
plays
and whos shown the door.

the clown rules with an iron fist.




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09-07-2010, 06:03 PM
  #102
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Oh stop it. The guy has been here for a season and a quarter. Give him 4+ before you throw him under the bus.

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09-07-2010, 06:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Oh stop it. The guy has been here for a season and a quarter. Give him 4+ before you throw him under the bus.
4 + ?? no way, he will not be here that long.

and what has he done so far to deserve anything but doubt and ridicule ?

heres what ive seen so far.

his water bottle meltdown
hypocrisy
treatment of lisin and avery
press conference confrontations
torching of gaborik to the media at the end of last season
his overall record as head coach of the nyr

other than that, yeah...hes been fine.

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09-07-2010, 06:21 PM
  #104
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"treatment of lisin"? LOL. LOL. LOL. Did he warrant any kind of better treatment? Did freakin' Renney "treat" Prucha fairly?

"press confrontations"? WTF do I care how Torts talks to Larry "the weasel" Brooks. **** Larry Brooks.

His overall record with the Rangers is 50-40-13. And, in my book, you HAVE to give the coach a few years (at least two) to get players together that suit his coaching method. Having a revolving door of coaches achieves absolutely nothing except worse results.

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09-07-2010, 06:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Oh stop it. The guy has been here for a season and a quarter. Give him 4+ before you throw him under the bus.
Same for sather?

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09-07-2010, 07:54 PM
  #106
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I wouldn't miss Sather. Not sure I'd miss Torts, either. I can't say, though, that 100 or so NHL regular season games is enough to get rid of a coach, much less one that has actually won a ring.

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09-08-2010, 03:51 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Lundqvist4Vezina View Post
You're right. Don't get me wrong, I love Tortsie. I'm glad he's coaching the Rangers, but the more I see the struggles of this team and organization, I second guess that move by firing Renney. It's continuing to show Sather can't build a team and take the blame. Renney was a great coach, but him getting fired and Sather hiring Tortorella was only a new band-aid being put over the cut that needs to be stitched up.
Right. That's why I don't get all of these threads like "How much has Tortorella done for the Rangers thus far...Assessment #3,000." How many coaches does an organization need to go through before possibly considering putting the blame on a G.M. and the owner. I agree with Sather that when you have a great goalie like "Hank" in net, you have to try and win a Cup each year. But the player personnel turn over rate is beyond ridiculous.
After Jagr's new found love for the post lockout NHL had come to an end, he tried to replace him. Sorry, but you have a motivated Jagr wanting to win and compete. And besides, he had his Czech mate posse, and a coach who wasn't pulling on the reins and allowed him to play his game (unlike the situation Washington). You can't replace a Super Star like that and fix the team overnight.
After the organization rode the Czech Republic wave for 3 season's, there were red flags flying all over the place and it was time to rebuild. And rebuilding is not "tanking." It's finally coming to the realization that your team has to go through a much needed transitional period in order to get back to having success.
Actually, after Gretzky retired (or imo, it should have started before Messier and Gretzky came back to join forces and get the team no where but ousted by the young big Flyers teams) this should have gotten underway.

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Old
09-08-2010, 05:07 PM
  #108
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i really like Tortsy but the team played better under Renny and were more disciplined

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09-08-2010, 05:12 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jagrcantakeyou View Post
i really like Tortsy but the team played better under Renny and were more disciplined
I was here at the end of Renney's tenure. Everyone was rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired. One quote of "great, Naslund has to ****ing save us." comes to mind after he got a game tying goal in the last minute.

When he was, people were screaming for someone. "Who just shows some emotion" typical Avery fever type ****.

Anyways, we got who we asked for, and are now screaming for a more typical coach again. The cycle continues.

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Old
09-08-2010, 05:16 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I was here at the end of Renney's tenure. Everyone was rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired. One quote of "great, Naslund has to ****ing save us." comes to mind after he got a game tying goal in the last minute.

When he was, people were screaming for someone. "Who just shows some emotion" typical Avery fever type ****.

Anyways, we got who we asked for, and are now screaming for a more typical coach again. The cycle continues.
I liked Renney and I dont like Tortorella, but regardless isnt it painfully obvious by now thats its not so much the coach at fault, but the guy thats supplying whoevers behind the bench with subpar players?

By the way, some people were saying this 18 months ago.

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09-08-2010, 05:20 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I liked Renney and I dont like Tortorella, but regardless isnt it painfully obvious by now thats its not so much the coach at fault, but the guy thats supplying whoevers behind the bench with subpar players?
Yes and no.

4 playoff seasons in 5 years since the lockout, and missing the playoffs by like 2 points last year really doesn't have me screaming bloody murder like others around here.

Players like Lundqvist, Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto make me happy with how our team has integrated youth, kept the stuff that stuck, and dealt the stuff that sucked.

There are some big moves Ive disagreed with/didnt like like letting Betts-Sjo go, signing Redden and bringing back Avery. But I am not a "I'd rather us tank for three years than watch 'mediocrity'" (everyone's favorite word) kind of guy.

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09-08-2010, 05:47 PM
  #112
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Chiming in with my opinion which holds no real relevance:

I'm in the camp where I think coaches are vastly overrated and the majority of the grunt work is done by the GM. Basically you will see a lot of success from teams with no-brainer draft choices (Crosby, Ovechkin) or with teams who can make the most of their draft picks (Detroit, NJ) AND the ability to successfully manipulate the UFA market to add the missing piece the organization can not fill.

The Rangers haven't done that in at least 15 years. It won't matter who coaches until this team has a young, reliable, core group of offensive and defensive players that is PROPERLY supplemented by key UFA acquisitions.

The Rangers appear to be moving in this direction, so don't expect this coach or maybe even the next one to do much until a little more talent works its way in.

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09-08-2010, 06:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I was here at the end of Renney's tenure. Everyone was rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired.
1) That's not true.

2) Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

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09-08-2010, 09:04 PM
  #114
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Please, the problem with this team, start to finish/top to bottom, is the fact that $20m in the least is blown on non impact, mediocre players. It's obviously not Tortorella's fault just like in hindsight it wasn't Renney's fault. However, GM's like Sather survive by passing the buck and throwing other's under the bus. Tortorella is gone if there aren't results this season. Just the nature of the game.

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09-08-2010, 09:26 PM
  #115
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Renney's conservative style meant the Rangers were in more close games, which resulted in a lot of OT games and subsequent points in the standings.

Torts' impact on pressure and free-wheeling resulted in the opposite, which probably cost the Rangers a playoff spot last year.


2007 -- Made the playoffs by 3 points -- 9-5 in shootouts / 12-10 in OT
2008 -- Made the playoffs by 5 points -- 8-9 in shootouts / 12-13 in OT
2009 -- Made the playoffs by 2 points -- 10-6 in shootouts/ 13-9 in OT
2010 -- Missed the playoffs by 1 point -- 3-4 in shootouts / 4-11 in OT

I have no idea why they sucked in OT last year. Maybe it was the shooters. Maybe it was Henrik. Henrik certainly should shoulder a big part of the blame for that, and that's not considering the three games he let in a go-ahead goal just seconds from OT and a point (Ottawa, Detroit and I'm forgetting one)

Overall, I'm of the opinion that if you're going to go down, go down under a hail of bullets instead of cowering in a foxhole waiting for the bad guys to go away.

I think Torts is like Showalter. He'll be long gone by the time the Rangers are Cup contenders, but our younger guys will probably be better off by having him coach them through the developmental years

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09-08-2010, 09:40 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
Renney's conservative style meant the Rangers were in more close games, which resulted in a lot of OT games and subsequent points in the standings.

Torts' impact on pressure and free-wheeling resulted in the opposite, which probably cost the Rangers a playoff spot last year.


2007 -- Made the playoffs by 3 points -- 9-5 in shootouts / 12-10 in OT
2008 -- Made the playoffs by 5 points -- 8-9 in shootouts / 12-13 in OT
2009 -- Made the playoffs by 2 points -- 10-6 in shootouts/ 13-9 in OT
2010 -- Missed the playoffs by 1 point -- 3-4 in shootouts / 4-11 in OT

I have no idea why they sucked in OT last year. Maybe it was the shooters. Maybe it was Henrik. Henrik certainly should shoulder a big part of the blame for that, and that's not considering the three games he let in a go-ahead goal just seconds from OT and a point (Ottawa, Detroit and I'm forgetting one)

Overall, I'm of the opinion that if you're going to go down, go down under a hail of bullets instead of cowering in a foxhole waiting for the bad guys to go away.

I think Torts is like Showalter. He'll be long gone by the time the Rangers are Cup contenders, but our younger guys will probably be better off by having him coach them through the developmental years
And Im of the opinion that the best attribute a coach can have is analyzing his team's personnel every season and acting accordingly.

You can certainly say a lot about Renney's shortcomings, but I never once got the impression that he was repeatedly trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

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09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I was here at the end of Renney's tenure. Everyone was rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired. One quote of "great, Naslund has to ****ing save us." comes to mind after he got a game tying goal in the last minute.

When he was, people were screaming for someone. "Who just shows some emotion" typical Avery fever type ****.

Anyways, we got who we asked for, and are now screaming for a more typical coach again. The cycle continues.
Don't lump me in there. I certainly did no such things. And I DEFINITELY never asked for Tortorella, or anyone like him.

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09-09-2010, 12:06 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And Im of the opinion that the best attribute a coach can have is analyzing his team's personnel every season and acting accordingly.

You can certainly say a lot about Renney's shortcomings, but I never once got the impression that he was repeatedly trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

The thing about Renney is that he had no real "system". Sure, he preached three-zone responsibility and held people accountable (somewhat), but the Rangers were tactically inept for 3/4 of his last two full seasons and for half of his last one.

People forget that the team was ashambles until March in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Every friggin season , the Rangers hit a wall in December and January, and they looked pathetic. It wasn't until Henrik was allowing under 2 goals a game for an entire month that enabled the Rangers to be a playoff team.

Renney was an average tactician who lost control of the team on multiple occasions (pick any Jan-Feb time frame). I'm not going to give the guy praise because he didn't throw water bottles at people and threaten beat writers.

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09-09-2010, 12:10 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
Chiming in with my opinion which holds no real relevance:

I'm in the camp where I think coaches are vastly overrated and the majority of the grunt work is done by the GM. Basically you will see a lot of success from teams with no-brainer draft choices (Crosby, Ovechkin) or with teams who can make the most of their draft picks (Detroit, NJ) AND the ability to successfully manipulate the UFA market to add the missing piece the organization can not fill.

The Rangers haven't done that in at least 15 years. It won't matter who coaches until this team has a young, reliable, core group of offensive and defensive players that is PROPERLY supplemented by key UFA acquisitions.

The Rangers appear to be moving in this direction, so don't expect this coach or maybe even the next one to do much until a little more talent works its way in.
BINGO - though i do believe a coach is worth a little more to its team in the playoffs.

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09-09-2010, 12:17 AM
  #120
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I'm in the camp where I think coaches are vastly overrated and the majority of the grunt work is done by the GM.
Look at how many coaches the Devils have had since the lockout... Yet they always manage to finish near the top of the Eastern conference standings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Please, the problem with this team, start to finish/top to bottom, is the fact that $20m in the least is blown on non impact, mediocre players. It's obviously not Tortorella's fault just like in hindsight it wasn't Renney's fault.
I agree with this... How many teams are successful when 3 outta 5 of their highest paid players are relatively low impact & inconsistent players? We are getting crap production when it comes to our cap space commitment... A good or bad coach for this team will only have minimal impact, they will never be the difference maker... If that's what fans are hoping for, they will be disappointed...

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09-09-2010, 11:51 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
The thing about Renney is that he had no real "system". Sure, he preached three-zone responsibility and held people accountable (somewhat), but the Rangers were tactically inept for 3/4 of his last two full seasons and for half of his last one.

People forget that the team was ashambles until March in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Every friggin season , the Rangers hit a wall in December and January, and they looked pathetic. It wasn't until Henrik was allowing under 2 goals a game for an entire month that enabled the Rangers to be a playoff team.

Renney was an average tactician who lost control of the team on multiple occasions (pick any Jan-Feb time frame). I'm not going to give the guy praise because he didn't throw water bottles at people and threaten beat writers.
Having a "system" is one of the most played out and overrated phrases in the game of hockey. People continually lauded Tortorella's "system" and where has it gotten us thus far besides tons of excuses that he needs more than a year and a half to employ the "system."

Besides, its tough for any Rangers coach to employ a concrete system due to the roster turnover every year and the absence of skilled players. I thought Renney was very good at analyzing his team year after year and determining a way to play that would get his team's the most points in the standings. He had a very good hockey mind, which I cant say at all about Tortorella. In fact, Tortorella's ability to matchup with other teams, etc, was incredibly overrated around here at the time of his hiring.

The guy is more or less a drill seargent...and that doesnt work when you dont have talent.

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09-09-2010, 02:38 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) That's not true.
2) Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Yes it is, there were plenty of posters who wanted Renney gone bad enough.

Just like there were posters last season who wanted to tank to get a hi draft pick.

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09-09-2010, 02:52 PM
  #123
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Yes it is, there were plenty of posters who wanted Renney gone bad enough.

Just like there were posters last season who wanted to tank to get a hi draft pick.
No it isn't. If Fitzy was claiming some people or a lot of people were rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired, you'd be on to something. However, the statement that EVERYONE was rooting for this is simply not true.

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09-09-2010, 03:20 PM
  #124
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I didn't like Renney being fired but I kind of bought into the hype that 'maybe' a change was necessary--at least I thought the Rangers could live with it. Tom was always a class act for what that's worth. I can't say the same about Torts but setting that aside results are what matters most. After a big buildup last year Tortorella did not get the required results. IMO the 09-10 team should have been better than the 08-09 team. It didn't happen for whatever reasons. This idea that Tortorella should get 4 years is only okay if he can get the team progressing again. If he doesn't then he should be fired--simple as that. IMO the Rangers need at least to get back in the playoffs this year.

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09-09-2010, 03:48 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
No it isn't. If Fitzy was claiming some people or a lot of people were rooting for the team to lose so he would be fired, you'd be on to something. However, the statement that EVERYONE was rooting for this is simply not true.
Fair enough Shadow, I would say a good percentage wanted it then.

Has anyone ever found out of there was any truth to the Gomez pushing him out thing? I asked Carp when he was on Mouth's show but he wouldn't comment on it too much.

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