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05-31-2004, 12:00 PM
  #1
Potted Plant
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Chipchura

With the way this draft is shaping up, it looks like it is going to be very unpredictable from about #15 down. What if Chipchura slips all the way to us at #24/25? Should we consider grabbing him? Or should we stick with the plan and go with a guy with more offensive potential?

I favor mixing up safe and more risky picks after our first pick. Chipchura qualifies in the safe category, so I think management should seriously consider him if he falls.

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05-31-2004, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
With the way this draft is shaping up, it looks like it is going to be very unpredictable from about #15 down. What if Chipchura slips all the way to us at #24/25? Should we consider grabbing him? Or should we stick with the plan and go with a guy with more offensive potential?

I favor mixing up safe and more risky picks after our first pick. Chipchura qualifies in the safe category, so I think management should seriously consider him if he falls.
Nothing to consider, he is a very good prospect, I would even move up to grab him.

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05-31-2004, 12:55 PM
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No thanks, to me he reminds me of Manny Malhotra, over hyped and expected to do too much. I'd consider taking him at 26 but ONLY if a guy like Lisin or Smid isn't available

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05-31-2004, 01:01 PM
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I think Chipchura is better than Malhotra in every way. And he is not bad offensively, he should break out next season.

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05-31-2004, 01:04 PM
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if he falls to 23/24 then you got consider him but i doubt he'll last that long...he'll go around 15

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05-31-2004, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I think Chipchura is better than Malhotra in every way. And he is not bad offensively, he should break out next season.

"he should break out next season", buddy we've been saying that about Malhotra for years, I just see way too much overhyping just to make up for him being drafted first in the WHL, something that shouldn't have been done in the first place.

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05-31-2004, 01:17 PM
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The hyping of Chipchura is much less than the hyping of Malhotra. And remember, we're discussing drafting him in the 20s, not in the single digits. Besides, I think Malhotra would have been fine if we hadn't placed unreasonable expectations on him in the year after drafting him. We were going around in the press talking about how he was going to make the team out of training camp, and he'd be a future captain, and he'd be a better NHLer than a junior player in time. We screwed the kid up, but that doesn't mean we'd do it again.

One thing I acknowledge though, if you don't score in juniors, you will not score in the NHL. I've read some threads where people have taken that to mean that people who score in juniors will score in the NHL. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT. Someone who scores big in juniors MAY score in the NHL, but will not necessarily do so. But someone who does NOT score in juniors will NOT score in the NHL.

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05-31-2004, 01:32 PM
  #8
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Ah.. Manny again. Thing about Manny is, he was never on a scoring line in Guelph. The fact he got near PPG totals despite that says he DOES have some talent, or did at that level. Manny was their shutdown guy, I remember him absolutely destroying Thornton one game. Another overlooked thing is a lot of big junior scorers do it as overagers... Garth Murray for instance barely got a PPG in his last year of junior eligibility. I truly believe Manny would have developd into a very nice player if we had just left him alone and develop. Instead he was brought to the circus, and more than a few times, not even trained. I have a friend who worked at their Rye camp and he told me they'd have Manny doing skating drills and faceoffs over and over but never working on his puck skills or shooting -- no wonder it seemed he had hands of stone. He's one of the more criminally screwed over prospects I've seen. He came out as an 18 year old at 6-2 210 and an incredible skater. The fact we couldn't even make him into a passable checker says a lot more about the org than him.

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05-31-2004, 01:46 PM
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Malhotra needed to play another season in OHL on top line to develop his scoring

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05-31-2004, 01:49 PM
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Like someone pointed out, if you can't score in juniors, you won't in the NHL, it just doesn't happen over night. People compare Chipchura to Brindamour and Peca but the truth is that both those guys are offensive as well, so if they're not playing a defencive role at the time, they can score as well, Chipchura, IMO, can't. He's big, strong and a good leader, probably a captain someday, but he's not going to score. IMO the rangers already have CHipchura and Dom Moore to a lesser extent, unless a flashy forward or good defencemen isn't available, i wouldn't think of Chipchura

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05-31-2004, 01:55 PM
  #11
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Chipchura won't score in the NHL. I think most of us can agree on that. That pretty much means that he tops out as a 4th line center on a good team.

I have NO problem drafting a 4th line center in the first round if he grows into one of the 2 or 3 best 4th line centers in the league in his prime. Looking back on his draft year, would it have been worth it to take Kris Draper at #25? I would think that the answer is yes. Of course, there's a lot of hindsight there. We can't say with any confidence that Chipchura will be THAT good. But everyone in the draft is a risk to some extent. If the scouting staff thinks that Chipchura has a good chance of being one of the best 4th line centers in the game, I would be happy to draft him.

All of this is predicated on having Chipchura fall to our second pick. That's something of a long shot to happen.

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05-31-2004, 04:29 PM
  #12
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I kinda agree with Prucha73 on this one.

I've seen KC play, and was not impressed, but at the same time i think he'll be a steady NHL'er. He's Rob Niedermayer, not alot of offense, but he does a good job in alot of other areas - faceoffs, defensive coverage, and provides good puck support to his teammates. Problem is, i'm not a Niedermayer fan, i'd consider other players in the first before him at #24 or higher.

Btw, Prucha73's average posts per day is now 36


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05-31-2004, 04:58 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
The hyping of Chipchura is much less than the hyping of Malhotra. And remember, we're discussing drafting him in the 20s, not in the single digits. Besides, I think Malhotra would have been fine if we hadn't placed unreasonable expectations on him in the year after drafting him. We were going around in the press talking about how he was going to make the team out of training camp, and he'd be a future captain, and he'd be a better NHLer than a junior player in time. We screwed the kid up, but that doesn't mean we'd do it again.

One thing I acknowledge though, if you don't score in juniors, you will not score in the NHL. I've read some threads where people have taken that to mean that people who score in juniors will score in the NHL. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT. Someone who scores big in juniors MAY score in the NHL, but will not necessarily do so. But someone who does NOT score in juniors will NOT score in the NHL.
I agree, If he is available at 23,depending who else is out there I might grab him but goal scoring comes naturally, you have it or you dont. If you cant score at the Junior level, no way you score at the NHL level.

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05-31-2004, 04:59 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Ah.. Manny again. Thing about Manny is, he was never on a scoring line in Guelph. The fact he got near PPG totals despite that says he DOES have some talent, or did at that level. Manny was their shutdown guy, I remember him absolutely destroying Thornton one game. Another overlooked thing is a lot of big junior scorers do it as overagers... Garth Murray for instance barely got a PPG in his last year of junior eligibility. I truly believe Manny would have developd into a very nice player if we had just left him alone and develop. Instead he was brought to the circus, and more than a few times, not even trained. I have a friend who worked at their Rye camp and he told me they'd have Manny doing skating drills and faceoffs over and over but never working on his puck skills or shooting -- no wonder it seemed he had hands of stone. He's one of the more criminally screwed over prospects I've seen. He came out as an 18 year old at 6-2 210 and an incredible skater. The fact we couldn't even make him into a passable checker says a lot more about the org than him.
Neil Smith put him in the NHL way to fast. He needed two more junior years and a full time year in the minors minimum. He is now starting and only starting to be a good NHL player.

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05-31-2004, 05:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
With the way this draft is shaping up, it looks like it is going to be very unpredictable from about #15 down. What if Chipchura slips all the way to us at #24/25? Should we consider grabbing him? Or should we stick with the plan and go with a guy with more offensive potential?

I favor mixing up safe and more risky picks after our first pick. Chipchura qualifies in the safe category, so I think management should seriously consider him if he falls.
Contrary to everyone on here, I actually like Chipchura quite a bit. I think he will develop quite nicely into a nice grinding forward who can score 20-25 goals per year - a welcome commodity on any team. He is the consumate leader, and defendds his teammates to the 10th degree. I have a hunch he's gone by 20. I like him more than I liked Malholtra going into the draft, I can say that.

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05-31-2004, 05:19 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
Contrary to everyone on here, I actually like Chipchura quite a bit. I think he will develop quite nicely into a nice grinding forward who can score 20-25 goals per year - a welcome commodity on any team. He is the consumate leader, and defendds his teammates to the 10th degree. I have a hunch he's gone by 20. I like him more than I liked Malholtra going into the draft, I can say that.
I also think he can be a very complete 2 way center that can play physical and score 40-60 points and shut down other teams' top lines.

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05-31-2004, 08:38 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
Contrary to everyone on here, I actually like Chipchura quite a bit. I think he will develop quite nicely into a nice grinding forward who can score 20-25 goals per year - a welcome commodity on any team. He is the consumate leader, and defendds his teammates to the 10th degree. I have a hunch he's gone by 20. I like him more than I liked Malholtra going into the draft, I can say that.
...Craig Conroy...

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Old
06-03-2004, 10:01 PM
  #18
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I dunno if anyone noticed but malhotra at 23/24 just scored 12 goals after going over to Columbus. Him developing into a 15-20 goal, 35 point player isn't exactly out of the question. Ironically his 12 goals were all of 4 less than he scored in juniors.

I believe to some extent in the whole scoring conversion idea, but what is forgotten is that some players "scoring" has less of a downgrade than others.

As for KC, I think he is a nice checking center but one who should come with realistic expectations. 10-20 goals and 20-35 points.

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