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How does Brewer stack up?

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Old
06-01-2004, 10:43 PM
  #1
Mizral
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How does Brewer stack up?

Aside from the salaries of these players & Eric Brewer, how does Brewer compare to the following defensemen (they are related to Brewer in a certain way, I'll explain later if you don't figure it out on your own)? Is he better, worse, the about as good as them? Which ones is he better than and which ones are worse? Aside from age or salary, are there any you would rather have than Brewer? If so, which ones?

Jovanovski
Aucoin
Redden
McCabe
Morris
Rafalski
Poti
Kaberle
Ohlund
Markov

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06-01-2004, 11:12 PM
  #2
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Aucoin and Redden are probably the only ones I'd trade Brewer for (that's how I'd judge the situation). The others either don't have the high end potential + good defense + good grit + skating ability - most of that list has atleast 2 of those, but to me none have all four ('cept Redden; Aucoins amazing stamina makes up for the speed part I suppose).

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06-01-2004, 11:14 PM
  #3
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Jovanovski - better than Brewer
Aucoin - slightly better
Redden - better from what he's shown in the playoffs
McCabe - better
Morris - edited: worse
Rafalski - Edited: Worse (sorry, I was thinking "Brew is better than them" when I put Better)
Poti - just a little worse
Kaberle - worse
Ohlund - better
Markov - Which one? Either way, worse


Last edited by zamboni: 06-02-2004 at 09:36 PM.
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Old
06-01-2004, 11:16 PM
  #4
YKOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Aside from the salaries of these players & Eric Brewer, how does Brewer compare to the following defensemen (they are related to Brewer in a certain way, I'll explain later if you don't figure it out on your own)? Is he better, worse, the about as good as them? Which ones is he better than and which ones are worse? Aside from age or salary, are there any you would rather have than Brewer? If so, which ones?
Talent Alone:

Brewer < Jovanovski
Brewer < Aucoin
Brewer = Redden
Brewer > McCabe
Brewer > Morris
Brewer = Rafalski (qualify this one - Rafalski has better skill set but Brewer has the size & physical edge)
Brewer > Poti
Brewer > Kaberle
Brewer < Ohlund
Brewer > Markov (Andrei)


Talent & Salary:

Brewer = Jovanovski
Brewer = Aucoin
Brewer > Redden
Brewer > McCabe
Brewer > Morris
Brewer = Rafalski (Rafalski has better skill set but Brewer has the size & physical edge)
Brewer > Poti
Brewer > Kaberle
Brewer = Ohlund
Brewer > Markov (Andrei)


Talent & Salary & Age:

Brewer > Jovanovski
Brewer > Aucoin
Brewer > Redden
Brewer > McCabe
Brewer > Morris
Brewer > Rafalski (Rafalski has better skill set but Brewer has the size & physical edge)
Brewer > Poti
Brewer > Kaberle
Brewer > Ohlund
Brewer = Markov (Andrei)

EDIT for Andrei (not Danil)

This is all based on Brewer getting a 3.0-3.2 million/year package on the next contract.


YKOil


Last edited by YKOil: 06-02-2004 at 12:40 AM.
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Old
06-01-2004, 11:17 PM
  #5
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They're all former first rounders except for Rafalski and the russians.

Jovanovski - he's way more physical, far less responsible, scores more. He has a bit more of a presence right now, but it's really hard to say exactly what kind of d-man Eric will be when he inherits an undisputed #1 role. I wouldn't trade them straight across if I was either gm, Jovo is at the stage where the 'Nux need him to be if he can just settle down.
Aucoin - better on the pp, defensively, and more physical. Aucoin kicks Eric's butt right now.
Redden - better than Eric right now, but probably the closest overall comparison.
McCabe - Another guy who consistantly makes costly errors, a-la Jovo.
Morris - took a backwards step lately, hard to say where he's at but it's definitely behind Eric right now.
Poti - better offensive skills but a bit timid and even less physical the Brew. Eric's better.
Ohlund - he can do everything, even throws some huge hits, and doesn't make bad decisions. Edge to Matti

Markov
Kaberle
Rafalski

I hardly ever notice these guys play, I don't know why but I just don't pay attention to them. They're all more offensively skilled than Eric but that's all I can say for sure.

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06-01-2004, 11:21 PM
  #6
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Hmmm. Good question.

1. Aucoin
2. Redden
3. McCabe
4. Ohlund
5. Jovo
6. Brewer
7. Markov
8. Rafalski
9. Morris
10. Kaberle
11. Poti

Any of the top 8 are just terrific imo.

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Old
06-01-2004, 11:21 PM
  #7
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Pardon me - I meant Andrei Markov. Tommorrow morning I'll post the followup though.

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06-01-2004, 11:58 PM
  #8
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Nevermind potential and salary. If I were choosing a defensemen to have on my team for next year and next year only here's how I compare this batch to Brewer.

Brewer>Jovanovski
Brewer>Aucoin
Redden>Brewer
Brewer>McCabe
Brewer>Morris
Brewer>Rafalski
Brewer>Poti
Brewer>Kaberle
Ohlund>Brewer
Brewer>Markov

Ohlund and Redden are truly the only defensemen I would take over Brewer going into next season. And that doesn't even take into account that Brewer is younger and has arguably more potential than most of them.

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Old
06-02-2004, 12:05 AM
  #9
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for JUST next year Brew def. isnt' better then Aucoin IMO

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06-02-2004, 12:16 AM
  #10
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Jovanovski => Brewer
Aucoin => Brewer
Redden > Brewer
McCabe = Brewer
Morris = Brewer
Rafalski <= Brewer
Poti < Brewer
Kaberle < Brewer
Ohlund = Brewer
Markov < Brewer

I think I would take Redden over Brewer. Other then that, I think he stacks up well and would probably rather keep him over the rest.

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Old
06-02-2004, 12:32 AM
  #11
elphy101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
for JUST next year Brew def. isnt' better then Aucoin IMO
I would strongly disagree with that. I think Aucoin is pretty overrated.

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Old
06-02-2004, 12:39 AM
  #12
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he's a mid 30 point man that plays the same shut down role that Brew does and he logs insane minutes.

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06-02-2004, 01:26 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
he's a mid 30 point man that plays the same shut down role that Brew does and he logs insane minutes.
Agreed. Plus he has a better shot and is probably slightly better on the PP. However, at this point with salary and age considerations Brewer probably represents the better package, IMO.

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06-02-2004, 02:13 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Aside from the salaries of these players & Eric Brewer, how does Brewer compare to the following defensemen (they are related to Brewer in a certain way, I'll explain later if you don't figure it out on your own)? Is he better, worse, the about as good as them? Which ones is he better than and which ones are worse? Aside from age or salary, are there any you would rather have than Brewer? If so, which ones?

Jovanovski
Aucoin
Redden
McCabe
Morris
Rafalski
Poti
Kaberle
Ohlund
Markov
It is an honor that you consider Poti in the same group as these other great defensemen. :bonk: Well actually Poti is not as bad as many Ranger fans claim, but nevertheless, I would love to see him traded.

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Old
06-02-2004, 08:33 AM
  #15
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I can't believe McCabe is in the same group as these elite defenseman.

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Old
06-02-2004, 09:08 AM
  #16
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Jovanovski > Brewer
Ohlund > Brewer
Aucoin > Brewer

Redden = Brewer

McCabe < Brewer
Morris < Brewer
Rafalski < Brewer
Poti < Brewer
Kaberle < Brewer
Markov < Brewer

GXL

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Old
06-02-2004, 11:30 AM
  #17
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The comparison between them all is that they all made more money than Brewer last season, and haven't hit UFA status yet. The only other guy I didn't mention along with these guys is Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer, since, well, that's just another level. There might have been the odd other guy I missed, but in any event:

Wade Redden - $4,500,000
Ed Jovanovski - $4,500,000
Bryan McCabe - $3,500,000
Derek Morris - $3,500,000
Adrian Aucoin - $3,250,000
Tom Poti - $2,800,000
Tomas Kaberle - $2,750,000
Mattias Ohlund - $2,750,000
(Oops, pardon me, it was Daniil Markov, my mistake)
Daniil Markov - $2,750,000

I won't include Markov since there was some confusion there. Just going by what people have so far:

5 people out of 8 thought Jovanovski was better than Brewer
6 people out of 8 thought Redden was better than Brewer
2 people out of 8 thought McCabe was better than Brewer
1 person out of 8 thought Morris was better than Brewer
7 people out of 8 thought Aucoin was better than Brewer
3 people out of 8 thought Rafalski was better than Brewer
Nobody thought Poti was better than Brewer
Nobody thought Kaberle was better than Brewer
4 people out of 8 thought Ohlund was better than Brewer

Note: I counted => or =< the same as > or <.

Aside from Ohlund (whom most would agree is underpaid right now anyways), Brewer would be ahead of Kaberle and Poti for sure, probobly not as good as Aucoin (who is up for a contract this year and will get a big raise). Most of you had Rafalski behind Ohlund too. Almost all of you had him better than Morris and McCabe, not as many over Jovo or Redden. I figure overall, most of you would have him in the Derek Morris/Bryan McCabe range of $3,500,000.

If you would say he's as good as Redden, then perhaps into the $4 million dollar range, as Redden got a long-term $4.5 million dollar contract.

So by going off this, Brewer at $3,500,000 would be about fair - anyone agree with that?

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06-02-2004, 11:43 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The comparison between them all is that they all made more money than Brewer last season, and haven't hit UFA status yet. The only other guy I didn't mention along with these guys is Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer, since, well, that's just another level. There might have been the odd other guy I missed, but in any event:

Wade Redden - $4,500,000
Ed Jovanovski - $4,500,000
Bryan McCabe - $3,500,000
Derek Morris - $3,500,000
Adrian Aucoin - $3,250,000
Tom Poti - $2,800,000
Tomas Kaberle - $2,750,000
Mattias Ohlund - $2,750,000
(Oops, pardon me, it was Daniil Markov, my mistake)
Daniil Markov - $2,750,000

I won't include Markov since there was some confusion there. Just going by what people have so far:

5 people out of 8 thought Jovanovski was better than Brewer
6 people out of 8 thought Redden was better than Brewer
2 people out of 8 thought McCabe was better than Brewer
1 person out of 8 thought Morris was better than Brewer
7 people out of 8 thought Aucoin was better than Brewer
3 people out of 8 thought Rafalski was better than Brewer
Nobody thought Poti was better than Brewer
Nobody thought Kaberle was better than Brewer
4 people out of 8 thought Ohlund was better than Brewer

Note: I counted => or =< the same as > or <.

Aside from Ohlund (whom most would agree is underpaid right now anyways), Brewer would be ahead of Kaberle and Poti for sure, probobly not as good as Aucoin (who is up for a contract this year and will get a big raise). Most of you had Rafalski behind Ohlund too. Almost all of you had him better than Morris and McCabe, not as many over Jovo or Redden. I figure overall, most of you would have him in the Derek Morris/Bryan McCabe range of $3,500,000.

If you would say he's as good as Redden, then perhaps into the $4 million dollar range, as Redden got a long-term $4.5 million dollar contract.

So by going off this, Brewer at $3,500,000 would be about fair - anyone agree with that?
I am thinking maybe a 4 year deal at 13.5 or 14 million

something between
3.0, 3.3, 3.5, 3.7
to
3.1, 3.4, 3.6, 3.9

Just because he didn't put up the offensive numbers this year that some were expecting. But I still think he has that potential for sure. But he hasn't done it yet.

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06-02-2004, 11:49 AM
  #19
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Why it would be anymore than a one year deal (when the CBA is about to change) would be crazy talk to me. They might have to pay through the nose this year but next summer things could look a lot more reasonable.

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06-02-2004, 11:56 AM
  #20
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Why it would be anymore than a one year deal (when the CBA is about to change) would be crazy talk to me. They might have to pay through the nose this year but next summer things could look a lot more reasonable.
I would agree with you if it wasn't a very young player like Brewer. If you gave him a 1 year deal and he had a great year, I doubt the CBA would stop him from asking for a big raise. Particularly if the CBA isn't all roses for ownership/management as I suspect it won't be.

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06-02-2004, 11:56 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
So by going off this, Brewer at $3,500,000 would be about fair - anyone agree with that?
I am hoping that Lowe can use the 'new' marketplace to get Brewer signed to something in the 2.9 - 3.2 range over two-three years with it topping out at 3.5 if the deal goes four years. Contracts have gotten smaller in anticipation of a new CBA so I am hoping the Lowe/Brewer take the same tack.

Wishful thinking to be sure.

Something like 2.9 / 3.1 / 3.3 / 3.5 would look good to me. Anything lower than that would represent a huge victory by Lowe in my books.

BTW Miz - where did you have Brewer ranked in and amongst all of that?


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06-02-2004, 12:39 PM
  #22
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
I am hoping that Lowe can use the 'new' marketplace to get Brewer signed to something in the 2.9 - 3.2 range over two-three years with it topping out at 3.5 if the deal goes four years. Contracts have gotten smaller in anticipation of a new CBA so I am hoping the Lowe/Brewer take the same tack.

Wishful thinking to be sure.

Something like 2.9 / 3.1 / 3.3 / 3.5 would look good to me. Anything lower than that would represent a huge victory by Lowe in my books.

BTW Miz - where did you have Brewer ranked in and amongst all of that?


YKOil
Your contract there has an average I believe of 3.2 million which might be low comapred to what he's asking for, but then again it's a 4 year deal so maybe not. Personally, I think Brewer at $3 million or more is getting into the 'really overpaid' zone, and I'd consider trading him around $3.5 milion, even though the Oilers D is brutal as is. I think Brewer at $2.3 or so would be where I would consider his 'worth' right now, but unfortunatly he's going to ask for much more. He will probobly take your deal though, at least I would guess he would.

Where do I rank him in that group?

Jovanovski, Aucoin, Redden, McCabe, Morris, and Ohlund I have better than Brewer. All but Morris and McCabe significantly better.

Rafalski, Poti, Kaberle, and Markov I consider worse than Brewer.

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06-02-2004, 12:53 PM
  #23
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Mizral, I'd have to disagree but on a slightly different point. For the Canucks who would you put higher Ohlund or Jovanovski.

I'd put Ohlund alot higher than Jovo, just wondering if that is just me or is it common thinking?

I'd still say Redden and Ohlund are in a league of their own compared to the rest of the defensemen there.

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06-02-2004, 01:27 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Your contract there has an average I believe of 3.2 million which might be low comapred to what he's asking for, but then again it's a 4 year deal so maybe not. Personally, I think Brewer at $3 million or more is getting into the 'really overpaid' zone, and I'd consider trading him around $3.5 milion, even though the Oilers D is brutal as is. I think Brewer at $2.3 or so would be where I would consider his 'worth' right now, but unfortunatly he's going to ask for much more. He will probobly take your deal though, at least I would guess he would.

Where do I rank him in that group?

Jovanovski, Aucoin, Redden, McCabe, Morris, and Ohlund I have better than Brewer. All but Morris and McCabe significantly better.

Rafalski, Poti, Kaberle, and Markov I consider worse than Brewer.
Really?

I would put them in this order

Redden
Ohlund
Jovanovski
Brewer
Aucoin
Markov
McCabe
Rafalski
Morris
Kaberle
Poti

Brewer was just named to the WC team over many of these players and is younger then most of them too. Maybe all, I didn't check everyones age.

Brewer just played right beside Morris in the Championships and looked FAR better then him. The only d-man I was more impressed with all tournament was Neidermeyer. And that goes for all the teams that I saw.

Redden is awesome, no doubt about that. a top pairing of Redden/Brewer would rule quite hard imho.

Ohlund is great as well, better then normal year but I have always liked him.

McCabe had a good season but I am not sold on him yet and Jovo had a bad year (for him)
Aucoin/Brewer is tough to call but I gave the nod to Brew because of the age factor

Markov I am a fan of but I would still prefer Brewer to him.

I am curious what it is but I have noticed that most people from Vancouver don't like Brewer at all. Why is that? Whenever you see Brewer being slagged in a thread a Vancouver fan is right there.

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Old
06-02-2004, 02:32 PM
  #25
YKOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
...the Oilers D is brutal as is.
:lol damn, that's funny coming from a Vancouver fan. Other than Ohlund I don't see much in Vancouver that is FAR superior to Edmonton.

Combined with a statement from another thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
...Regarding the Rangers defense, I actually don't have a problem with it.
...I have to start to wonder.



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