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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VII

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Old
10-18-2010, 05:05 PM
  #601
JDM
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
I don't know, I think it's best to keep it as is. Yes Kopitar will likely improve that line even more, but Kopitar is far better without Smyth and Williams than Stoll is without Smyth and Williams. Taking Stoll off that line would likely hurt his production more than it would improve Kopitars.
Yeah... I'm fine keeping the lines for now. You make a good point, though it seems to me at this pace Kopitar's line will be the second line in a few games at the rate the Smyth-Stoll-Williams line is going. That can be construed as a good thing or a bad thing.

Hey, as long as they keep winning, I'm not going to complain, but I will still have suggestions for improvement. We may be 3-1, but we definitely have plenty of areas that need improving.

I'm just spit-balling in my fantasy world for when the lines inevitably change, and they WILL change. Of that we can be sure.

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10-18-2010, 05:05 PM
  #602
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You notice that the Stoll line goes out most often during offensive zone face-offs.

If Stoll doesn't do so well in the face-off circle, then that line would not get the opportunity to get the cycle going immediately. It allows them to take long shifts and where down the other teams defense.

This is a "wear the opposition down" line and it is also started by Stoll's prowess in the circle.

Stoll is very important to that line.

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Old
10-18-2010, 05:49 PM
  #603
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I'm not knocking Stoll. He's played well the last two games, very well last game, and obviously you are spot on about faceoffs. I simply mean I think the load of the chemistry comes from the FANTASTIC play of Williams and his chemistry with Smyth.
... I'd go so far as to say Stoll's been every bit as good as Williams and Smyth have been thus far. Along with being good on the draw, Stoll's the best defensive forward on that line, and he's the most physical player on that line. He just brings versatility to it, doing nothing spectacularly but everything pretty well.

I think Smyth has played very well the last couple games, but let's face it - he was not impressive at all in the first two games of the season. It's nice to see him come around, but Stoll has been more consistent in his play.

Williams has been sharp in every game except the loss in Calgary, in my view. I've been very critical of him since he came here, but hopefully he's able to stick it to me by finding the fountain of youth and having a good full season.

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I've been wanting to see Smyth-Kopi-Williams reunited since training camp.
... Kopitar and Brown will come around; they're already showing signs of that. I don't think there's any way Loktionov should even be on that line - what's he done to earn that spot?

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They know what they have. The 4th line I envision gets about 10-12 minutes a game.

I am NOT advocating that Simmonds ice time be cut.
... But wait, he's playing 12 minutes a game now - and you're advocating 10-12, so for all intents and purposes, you're calling for his ice time to be cut.

Speaking of someone who's earned the chance to be on the top line, who's done more to earn it than Simmonds??? Murray's big on having guys earn their spots, right? I think the solution to the Kopitar line is right in front of the Kings, and staring them right in the face. All they have to do is give it a shot.

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Old
10-18-2010, 05:51 PM
  #604
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i'm not overlooking anything.

i said look at the overall picture. i said he was more talented, and yes, he's more productive. but that latter part carries a MAJOR caveat that everyone has insofar felt necessary to include - "when healthy."
There's no denying his past shoulder injuries, but the overall picture might trump everything else in this case. A high caliber player like Ales Hemsky is a risk worth taking, in my mind.

Quote:
secondly, there's a major disparity in their respective two-way games, where Frolov trumps Hemsky... and my idea of a better player is the one who can not only stay healthy, but can do it in all three zones.
Handzus is better at hockey than Kopitar. You can also say Patrick Sharp over Patrick Kane in that context as well. But who are you picking to lead your team?

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Hemsky is a first line talent, never fully realized. Frolov is a second line talent, never fully realized... and where i still consider Fro a bit underrated, i think Hemsky's grace is a little bloat the other way as well.
Not exactly accurate. Hemsky has done everything he can in EDM. Carries the team offensively, carries the play, plays the tough minutes, consistency, he's their version of Anze Kopitar, playing on a black hole team with no support around him.


Quote:
i've seen every Rangers game thus far save for the last one where Gaborik got hurt. there really hasn't been a whole lot of bad in Fro's game at all.
and a whole 'lotta nothing everywhere else.


Last edited by Fangio: 10-18-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old
10-18-2010, 06:01 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Kopitar and Brown will come around; they're already showing signs of that. I don't think there's any way Loktionov should even be on that line - what's he done to earn that spot?

I'm also hopeful for that duo.

People crusading anti-browpitar, or the ones watching Brown under a microscope, need to realize that Brownie playing with Kopitar does wonders for his overall performance. You know, the skill he gets to play with, and more importantly the ability to support the play.

Last game's sequence was a prime example of that -- Brown had possession entering the zone against two defenders(we've seen that before), and look at Kopitar dashing in to give his winger a set of options.
In pressure situations like such, Brown is often guilty over-handling the puck, especially the last two seasons playing with who? a center in no man's land, and a left-winger..what left-winger!? Stoll/Brown was one of the worst hockey I've ever seen from a playoff contender, just a bad combo. It was improved when Frolov was introduced down the stretch, in fact Brown even went on a scoring tear to close out the regular season.

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Old
10-18-2010, 06:05 PM
  #606
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Simmonds earned it last year, but aside from the last game Simmonds has not been himself so are this year. He hasn't been as persistent in his 50/50 Puck battles.

Loki hasn't earned the spot, agreed. I don't particularly care for him there. He does not look out of place in terms of playing against NHLers but he doesn't seem to really fit on that line. Its so tough to judge anything with combos right now though. I hope kopi and brown cone around an I believe they will. I'm Just so very partial to kopi and Williams together.

Agree that Stoll is the best defensive forward on the line.

Just for fun, here's another set of combos I'd be interested to see.

Smyth-Stoll-Simmonds
Schenn-Kopi-Williams
Poni-Zus-Brown
Richardson/Clifford-Loktionov-Westgarth

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Old
10-18-2010, 06:53 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveHoler View Post
and a whole 'lotta nothing everywhere else.

i wonder how they feel about him today.


Frolov 4gp 1g 2a 3p +1

(Gaborik 3gp 0g 2a 2p +1)



and for a little more money, the Kings could have...

Alex Ponikarovsky 4gp 0g 1a 1p even

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Old
10-18-2010, 06:59 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
i wonder how they feel about him today.


Frolov 4gp 1g 2a 3p +1

(Gaborik 3gp 0g 2a 2p +1)



and for a little more money, the Kings could have...

Alex Ponikarovsky 4gp 0g 1a 1p even
the problem with that theory is Frolov in LA would probably not have those numbers

you know, new team, fresh start effect?

Fro took things for granted, got a bit too comfortable in LA and he get lazy or uninspired

so ive never like those comparisons because i am convinced that what we are getting with poni is what we would have gotten with Fro, at least Poni had that gambling factor where he might pan out for us and score 20-25 goals...its a gamble, we paid, and it wont pan out

end of story

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Old
10-18-2010, 06:59 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
i wonder how they feel about him today.


Frolov 4gp 1g 2a 3p +1

(Gaborik 3gp 0g 2a 2p +1)



and for a little more money, the Kings could have...

Alex Ponikarovsky 4gp 0g 1a 1p even
Someone's fivehole is burning up right now...


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Old
10-18-2010, 07:02 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post

end of story


You sure about that???

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:05 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
the problem with that theory is Frolov in LA would probably not have those numbers

you know, new team, fresh start effect?

Fro took things for granted, got a bit too comfortable in LA and he get lazy or uninspired

so ive never like those comparisons because i am convinced that what we are getting with poni is what we would have gotten with Fro, at least Poni had that gambling factor where he might pan out for us and score 20-25 goals...its a gamble, we paid, and it wont pan out

end of story
you could be as convinced as you want, it's just isn't true.

and Alex Ponikarovsky's total effect on that line is already evident. but i assume everyone will need numbers to prove out.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:33 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
you could be as convinced as you want, it's just isn't true.

and Alex Ponikarovsky's total effect on that line is already evident. but i assume everyone will need numbers to prove out.
Just like his effect on the PK or do you need numbers to prove it

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:40 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Just like his effect on the PK or do you need numbers to prove it
what effect? the entire team has been balls defensively on both even strength AND shorthanded situations, so unless you can single out his play on the PK specifically...

the number of scoring chances in that third line is way down and they have clearly been the most ineffective line after 4 games.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:49 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
what effect? the entire team has been balls defensively on both even strength AND shorthanded situations, so unless you can single out his play on the PK specifically...

the number of scoring chances in that third line is way down and they have clearly been the most ineffective line after 4 games.
Poni has been a monster on the PK. I've noticed him specifically in that regard every game. Not sure how you couldn't. Particularly the PK pair of Smyth-Poni has been fiercely dominant. Sure, the whole team is playing well in that regard, but Poni specifically has been money through the neutral zone, blocking a ton of shots and clears the puck almost every time it is near him.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:02 PM
  #615
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So far in 4 games:

Poni- 10 hits and 5 BS (the most of any Kings forward)

Frolov- 2 hits and 0 BS

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:04 PM
  #616
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Poni is playing fine. I've no problem with him. Thing is Frolov will always be the more talented guy. He's someone who will hit 30 goals again in his career in my opinion. The problem was always getting him to hit that level game after game and year after year.

Good luck to him. Wish he was still on the team but I can see why he isn't....

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:11 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
what effect? the entire team has been balls defensively on both even strength AND shorthanded situations, so unless you can single out his play on the PK specifically...

the number of scoring chances in that third line is way down and they have clearly been the most ineffective line after 4 games.
I like how the 3rd line not clicking is his fault, not Simmonds being off or his line basically being the only "new" line this season (the other Kopi/loki hasn't worked well either has it). Also if you want me to single some fact out about poni's pk beside the fact that with his reach and stick positioning it completely stifles the opposing teams flow and ability to move the puck cross ice. The fact that poni was in the box for the only real PP goal given up this season should say something, besides that he likes to take bad minors(other was a empty net at the end of the game).

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:38 PM
  #618
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The problem with Frolov is that he's not the type of player you can build a team around. He's just not dependable, in that you can't predict the kind of effort he's going to give and what he's going to contribute to the team.

With Ponikarovsky, you know you're going to get solid defensive play, some grit, maybe some goals here and there. Even if he's not putting pucks in the net, he can still be a valuable player.

With Frolov, you want to depend on him for goals, but he's so inconsistent as a scorer that you can't. When he's not scoring, all he's really capable of is keeping possession of the puck in the offensive zone. Though that's a valuable quality to a multi-faceted player, there were stretches of play last year where all Frolov could really do was keep the puck along the boards and sometimes contribute to a cycle. Though he was very capable defensively, his backchecking would often leave something to be desired, so he couldn't be depended on for that either. He's too much of a wild card.

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10-18-2010, 08:59 PM
  #619
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Are you guys going to do this again all season with Frolov like you did last year with O'Sullivan, and the year before with Cammy? He's gone...move on with your lives

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10-18-2010, 09:01 PM
  #620
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Are you guys going to do this again all season with Frolov like you did last year with O'Sullivan, and the year before with Cammy? He's gone...move on with your lives
It's a six-day game break, what else are we supposed to talk about? The Kings? Other teams? Inconceivable!

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:28 PM
  #621
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Curious how the goaltending situation is working out so far. Only thing I have to go off of are a quick glance at the stats on NHL.com and both kids seem to have come out to a monstrous start... I take it Dean is riding the high rather than looking to move either of them?

At least, thats what common sense would tell you, I guess.

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10-18-2010, 10:26 PM
  #622
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Are you guys going to do this again all season with Frolov like you did last year with O'Sullivan, and the year before with Cammy? He's gone...move on with your lives
Are you gonna keep telling us to get on with our lives all season long?


Just saying.....


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Old
10-18-2010, 11:02 PM
  #623
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Are you guys going to do this again all season with Frolov like you did last year with O'Sullivan, and the year before with Cammy? He's gone...move on with your lives
Purcell has 4 assists in 5 games.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:11 PM
  #624
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Curious how the goaltending situation is working out so far. Only thing I have to go off of are a quick glance at the stats on NHL.com and both kids seem to have come out to a monstrous start... I take it Dean is riding the high rather than looking to move either of them?

At least, thats what common sense would tell you, I guess.
I think common sense prevails for this season, and maybe even well into next season.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:40 PM
  #625
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I think common sense prevails for this season, and maybe even well into next season.
With Kings Management ? or on HF's boards ? ... as I doubt BOTH can happen at the same time

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