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Pavel Bure

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09-08-2010, 08:29 AM
  #1
markrander87
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Pavel Bure

I'm just wondering if anybody as any sources, insight or information regarding Bure's defensive play. I know he is not known for playing the most defensive style, but I have heard rumurs he was used at times to shadow players because of his speed? I find this kind of hard to believe, but it could of happened.

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09-08-2010, 09:06 AM
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redbull
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bure hovered around the blueline, waiting for turnovers, then would bolt for open ice - he got a lot of breakaways that way. His speed and ability to maneuver at top speed was a sight to see, probably the best I've ever seen (although I hear Bobby Orr was also quite good)

I don't ever recall Bure shadowing anyone NOR being asked to play defense. That would be a useless task to assign a player with his skillset and his offensive ability.

He was at his best in the 1994 season & playoffs when they lost to the Rangers in a seven game finals. I believe that was his second of back to back 60 goal seasons and had a nice playoff run against a stacked Rangers team with more than twice the payroll (Burke still whines about that on occasion)

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09-08-2010, 09:19 AM
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kmad
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Bure was the most notorious floater EVER. He had speed, but never used it effectively in any defensive manner.

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09-08-2010, 09:36 AM
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arrbez
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yeah, I don't remember it in the NHL, but he did spend a few years with CSKA and the Soviet National Team before coming to the NHL. I never saw him pre-NHL, but maybe someone has some insight?

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09-08-2010, 09:41 AM
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Chairman Maouth
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I don't know guys. I seem to remember something about this. I could be wrong though and have nothing to back it up with.

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09-08-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Maouth View Post
I don't know guys. I seem to remember something about this. I could be wrong though and have nothing to back it up with.
It could be, but it does seem like a waste of talent since Bure was far and away the best offensive player on all his teams. Maybe in his younger days with Vancouver if they were trying to hold a lead? I can't imagine it in Florida or his later Canuck years. But it's not like I was watching every Canuck and Panther game back in the day, so it could be.

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09-08-2010, 09:50 AM
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sparr0w
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
yeah, I don't remember it in the NHL, but he did spend a few years with CSKA and the Soviet National Team before coming to the NHL. I never saw him pre-NHL, but maybe someone has some insight?
He and Mogilny roamed free back then as well. Fedorov was their babysitter.

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09-08-2010, 10:21 AM
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seventieslord
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Bure is one of the worst defensive star forwards of all-time.

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09-08-2010, 10:48 AM
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tarheelhockey
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I once saw someone argue in a thread here that Bure was used to shadow someone during a playoff series. I think it might have been Gretzky.

Yes, I know that sounds insane, but someone here was quite seriously convinced that he saw it happen. I won't pass judgment because I don't remember quite clearly which playoff series it was... and there are some crazy coaches out there.

On the Bure topic, does anybody have insight into how his skating stride hurt his knees?

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09-08-2010, 11:29 AM
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markrander87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Bure is one of the worst defensive star forwards of all-time.
Did you even read the original post?

Your post serves zero purpose.

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09-08-2010, 11:43 AM
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Dissonance
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I'm 98% sure Bure never shadowed anyone while he was in Vancouver. He was much too busy hanging out by the redline. Occasionally he'd venture back into the defensive zone during the playoffs, but that was about it. There was a game in maybe '97 or so where Bure and Mogilny lined up against Kariya and Selanne and got torched, and in a post-game interview Selanne (of all people) was making fun of Bure's refusal to backcheck.

Possibly the best defensive hockey Bure ever played was for a brief while after he came back from knee surgery in Florida—pretty sure I remember him wading back into traffic to steal a puck away from an opposing player in one game, which was an average play for most defensively competent players, but stunning for Bure.


Last edited by Dissonance: 09-08-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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09-08-2010, 12:21 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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From what I've gathered from Canucks fans, early in his career in Vancouver, Bure wasn't any worse than your typical offense-only winger like Selanne. His defensive play took a nosedive in his last year in Vancouver, where he had to score 50 goals to hit a contract bonus. At that point, scoring goals was all he cared about.

I did watch lots of Bure in Florida, and his reputation for circling the center-ice logo comes largely from his years there IMO. But the thing is that team was so offensively inept after Bure, he may have actually been doing the best thing to help the team. Though after he was traded, his former teammates complained about always having to "feed the cat" - sending the puck up to Bure who was circling the center ice Panther logo.


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09-08-2010, 12:35 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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As for the "rumors of Bure shadowing guys," correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently in one playoff series, Pat Quinn used Bure head to head versus Gretzky. The poster who was talking about this used it as proof of Bure's shadowing ability. I think it's much more likely that Quinn lacked a good shutdown line and was simply going strength against strength. Like I said, at that point in his career, Bure wasn't known as being any worse in his own zone than the likes of Selanne or Mogilny.

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09-08-2010, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As for the "rumors of Bure shadowing guys," correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently in one playoff series, Pat Quinn used Bure head to head versus Gretzky. The poster who was talking about this used it as proof of Bure's shadowing ability. I think it's much more likely that Quinn lacked a good shutdown line and was simply going strength against strength. Like I said, at that point in his career, Bure wasn't known as being any worse in his own zone than the likes of Selanne or Mogilny.

Yeah, Bure was a notorious floater/cherry picker in the regular season but come playoff time, the guy did whatever the coach asked and whatever needed to be done.

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09-08-2010, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I did watch lots of Bure in Florida, and his reputation for circling the center-ice logo comes largely from his years there IMO. But the thing is that team was so offensively inept after Bure, he may have actually been doing the best thing to help the team. Though after he was traded, his former teammates complained about always having to "feed the cat" - sending the puck up to Bure who was circling the center ice Panther logo.
Yeah, he cherry-picked like crazy. But as you say, that's a situation where you almost have to. Bure scored 59 goals in 2001, and nobody else on Florida hit 15. He was also the only player to crack 25 assists. That must be the biggest disparity from the leading scorer to 2nd place in modern NHL history. Here's another stat that boggles the mind: Bure averaged 27 minutes of icetime per game that year.

He may have been scoring nothing goals for a nothing team, but that's one of the most unique displays of singular offensive talent we might ever see. When a team has a guy score 59 goals and nobody else manages more than 24 assists, that's about as close to a one-man show as you could possibly get.


Last edited by arrbez: 09-08-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
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Dissonance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As for the "rumors of Bure shadowing guys," correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently in one playoff series, Pat Quinn used Bure head to head versus Gretzky. The poster who was talking about this used it as proof of Bure's shadowing ability. I think it's much more likely that Quinn lacked a good shutdown line and was simply going strength against strength. Like I said, at that point in his career, Bure wasn't known as being any worse in his own zone than the likes of Selanne or Mogilny.
This would've been the '93 playoffs. The Adams-Craven-Bure line matched up against Gretzky's a fair bit in that series (and got massacred), but Bure never shadowed anyone. He spent most of his time getting distracted by Alexei Zhitnik and not scoring.

That was also the year Petr Nedved asked for Gretzky's stick in the post-series handshake… oy.

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09-08-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
That was also the year Petr Nedved asked for Gretzky's stick in the post-series handshake… oy.
Really? That's kinda sad. I assume Wayne didn't give it up?


Last edited by arrbez: 09-08-2010 at 01:42 PM.
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09-08-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Really? That's kinda sad. I assume Wayne didn't give it up?
Nah, Gretzky gave it to him. Back when he was in the WHL, Nedved was known as a massive Gretzky fan—he wore the same helmet, same tucked-in jersey… But asking for his idol's stick right after a hugely disappointing playoff upset wasn't exactly the best timing.

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09-08-2010, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
On the Bure topic, does anybody have insight into how his skating stride hurt his knees?
Man I have to go over a decade of memories for this but I don't think his skating stride has anything to do with his knees.

I think it was more of an incident where he slid onto the boards knee first. Of course that means that skating at Bure speed also = sliding at Bure speed. Collision with a stationary object (boards) at that speed is

He still was able to play post-injury at the same high level but with more fragility to the knee though.

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09-08-2010, 02:38 PM
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arrbez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
Nah, Gretzky gave it to him. Back when he was in the WHL, Nedved was known as a massive Gretzky fan—he wore the same helmet, same tucked-in jersey… But asking for his idol's stick right after a hugely disappointing playoff upset wasn't exactly the best timing.
yeah, it kinds gives off the "I'm just happy to be here" vibe

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09-08-2010, 03:03 PM
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Skating Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I once saw someone argue in a thread here that Bure was used to shadow someone during a playoff series. I think it might have been Gretzky.

Yes, I know that sounds insane, but someone here was quite seriously convinced that he saw it happen. I won't pass judgment because I don't remember quite clearly which playoff series it was... and there are some crazy coaches out there.

On the Bure topic, does anybody have insight into how his skating stride hurt his knees?
This is accurate, leg motion put undo stress on his knees. Awhile back, est 12-24 months ago a poster whose handle I have forgotten, had a very good descrition of this on this board.

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09-08-2010, 03:14 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
This is accurate, leg motion put undo stress on his knees. Awhile back, est 12-24 months ago a poster whose handle I have forgotten, had a very good descrition of this on this board.
Is this it?

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Originally Posted by Heat McManus View Post
Many injuries could have been avoided and/or corrected using modern medical procedures, but Bobby Orr himself maintains that his skating style would have ruined his knees regardless of the era he played in.

Bure is the same as his stride was greatest weapon as well as his own worst enemy. He rolled from his inside edge to his outside edge with each stride rather than pushing off his outside edge which gave him a greater boost, but also put extra strain on his knees.
Here is the link to that thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...2#post14798202

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09-08-2010, 03:34 PM
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Ozolinsh_27
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I'm pretty sure he moved from his outside edge and rolled to inside edge which enabled his stride to push forward from a straighter angle.

This added additional wear and tear on his knees aside from his ACL injuries. Peter Twist noticed this when he was helping Pavel rehab his first ACL injury and its described in Kerry Banks' novel in Pavel Bure: Riddle of the Russian Rocket

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09-08-2010, 03:40 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Thank You

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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Is this it?



Here is the link to that thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...2#post14798202
Yes it is. Thank you. The explanations are throughout the linked thread.

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09-08-2010, 04:03 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozolinsh_27 View Post
I'm pretty sure he moved from his outside edge and rolled to inside edge which enabled his stride to push forward from a straighter angle.

This added additional wear and tear on his knees aside from his ACL injuries. Peter Twist noticed this when he was helping Pavel rehab his first ACL injury and its described in Kerry Banks' novel in Pavel Bure: Riddle of the Russian Rocket
That same poster I quoted before references that book a few posts later. Here's what he wrote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heat McManus View Post
I'll let Peter Twist, the Canucks old strength and conditioning coach, explain it (from The Riddle of the Russian Rocket by Kerry Adams)

Quote:
Most players skate on their inside edge and push off at a 45-degree angle, but Bure starts on his outside edge and rolls over to his inside edge and pushes back straighter on his stride than the typical North American player. [As a result] he gets more power and force in his stride to get up to top sped
One of the downfalls of this is that if you get caught caught in a rut as you roll on your edges you can hurt yourself. I've read in another interview (can't remember where) that this is what had happened to Bure.

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