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Pavel Bure

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Old
09-08-2010, 04:26 PM
  #26
tarheelhockey
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Wow, thanks for the info. Rolling outside/inside just sounds like a painful way to skate regardless of injury...

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09-08-2010, 04:32 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As for the "rumors of Bure shadowing guys," correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently in one playoff series, Pat Quinn used Bure head to head versus Gretzky. The poster who was talking about this used it as proof of Bure's shadowing ability. I think it's much more likely that Quinn lacked a good shutdown line and was simply going strength against strength. Like I said, at that point in his career, Bure wasn't known as being any worse in his own zone than the likes of Selanne or Mogilny.
That means Bure would go in the defensive zone (and I'm not so sure that was a fact).

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09-08-2010, 05:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
That means Bure would go in the defensive zone (and I'm not so sure that was a fact).
I don't have a great sense for what Mogilny was like in Buffalo, but when he was in Vancouver he was quite responsible defensively (and got better over time). He and Bure were nothing alike in this regard.

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09-08-2010, 05:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
That means Bure would go in the defensive zone (and I'm not so sure that was a fact).
Again, in the regular season not so much but this was the playoff's and he did what he was supposed to and had to do then.
Say what you want about the guy but come April, he was actually a very strong 2-way player.

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Old
09-08-2010, 05:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
That same poster I quoted before references that book a few posts later. Here's what he wrote...
Does anyone know of a good video showing the outside to inside roll? I can't seem to find one on youtube.

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Old
09-08-2010, 07:51 PM
  #31
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Most players skate on their inside edge and push off at a 45-degree angle, but Bure starts on his outside edge and rolls over to his inside edge and pushes back straighter on his stride than the typical North American player. [As a result] he gets more power and force in his stride to get up to top sped
Although the author of that book is probably wayyy more credible than me, but I can't for the life of me imagine how this technique can possibly be feasable, let alone the key to power skating.

I mean:

How do you accelerate from your outer edge then inner edge? (Are they talking about starting your strides sideways like a cross over? So if you're chipping sideways it goes outer edge - inside edge - outer edge and then stride?)

And also, don't most skaters push fairly straight when they're in full stride? It's only in acceleration where they have to be on a 45 degree angle or more but not when you're already in full flight.


So to me it sounds like what Bure does is something we all do, unless someone with a more technical knowledge shed more light if interpreted it wrong.

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09-08-2010, 08:09 PM
  #32
Big Phil
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I do not remember Bure ever shadowing someone. I am not sure why a coach would ever use a player like him in that capacity. But I certainly don't remember it and cannot find anything on it either. Head to head matches are a little different. There were times Gretzky and Lemieux went head to head against the KLM line in the 1987 Canada Cup but I wouldn't say they shadowed them. That chore was usually up to the Messier-Gartner-Anderson line.

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Old
09-08-2010, 08:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I do not remember Bure ever shadowing someone. I am not sure why a coach would ever use a player like him in that capacity. But I certainly don't remember it and cannot find anything on it either. Head to head matches are a little different. There were times Gretzky and Lemieux went head to head against the KLM line in the 1987 Canada Cup but I wouldn't say they shadowed them. That chore was usually up to the Messier-Gartner-Anderson line.
Yzerman, even in his big offensive years did it, he was Gretzky's shadow in the late 80's, long before he fully went 2-way.
Forsberg was another "star" player that took on shadow roles at various points.
I'm not talking about simple head to head match ups either, I'm talking about actual Tikkanen like shadowing.

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09-08-2010, 08:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Yzerman, even in his big offensive years did it, he was Gretzky's shadow in the late 80's, long before he fully went 2-way.
Forsberg was another "star" player that took on shadow roles at various points.
I'm not talking about simple head to head match ups either, I'm talking about actual Tikkanen like shadowing.
I don't remember Yzerman doing it either other than head to head offense vs. offense match ups. Forsberg makes more sense though.

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:26 PM
  #35
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzsozMTEcbo

bure playing d against the great one


Last edited by Seanconn*: 09-08-2010 at 10:17 PM.
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Old
09-08-2010, 09:46 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tzsozMTEcbo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tzsozMTEcbo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
there ya go.

(all you need is the "tzsozMTEcbo" between the youtube tags)



And good find, although Pavel seems to be getting lit up there

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:49 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I don't remember Yzerman doing it either other than head to head offense vs. offense match ups. Forsberg makes more sense though.

Stevie didn't do it often, just vs Gretzky in '87 and he did a hell of a job too, unfortunately the rest of the Oilers buried them in just 5 games.

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Old
09-09-2010, 06:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzsozMTEcbo

bure playing d against the great one
If this answers the OP's question, this is about as close to a defensive role as I have ever seen him play also

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Old
09-09-2010, 11:59 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Bure is one of the worst defensive star forwards of all-time.
Agreed he simply did not play defense.

In his defense perhaps a coach never had the ability to reel him in.

It just wasn't part of his game at all.

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09-10-2010, 12:00 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
If this answers the OP's question, this is about as close to a defensive role as I have ever seen him play also
Well no one is really that bad in actual games a good offense has to count for something eh?

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09-10-2010, 12:07 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
Nah, Gretzky gave it to him. Back when he was in the WHL, Nedved was known as a massive Gretzky fan—he wore the same helmet, same tucked-in jersey… But asking for his idol's stick right after a hugely disappointing playoff upset wasn't exactly the best timing.
The whole stick thing was overblown IMO, given the special circumstances of Nedved defecting to North America as a 17 year old, but he actually played in a ball hockey league I was in and in the off season and was told by the Canucks to stop doing so.

Young kids make plenty of mistakes like that, he was more like an innocent than a not caring guy.

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Old
10-17-2010, 02:03 PM
  #42
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this is a toronto star article on the series between vancouver and toronto from the 94 playoffs

it's in the last two paragraphs

Quote:
'Toronto Star' article
May 19, 1994

Somehow, through the dim created by 16,000 screaming fans, the distinctive switching sound of two cuts by the skates of Pavel Bure were clearly audible. In a flash, Bure snared a loose puck behind the Maple Leaf net, moved to clear ice, then snapped the puck to a team-mate. Two passes later, Jyrki Lumme deposited a wrist shot through a screen to give the Vancouver Canucks the winning goal in a 4-3 Victory in Game 2 of the Western Conference final.

While Bure's original play was almost forgotten, it was the most subtle of a series of magical moves on a brilliant night for the Russian Rocket . While the most gifted players on both sides have found the going unbearably tough in the series so far, Bure's sheer elegance and imagination shone through in last night's contest, as his emergence as a committed playoff performer continues.

He ended up with a goal and an assist, plus another 7 shots that didn't get past Toronto goalie Felix Potvin, as the Leafs were all but powerless to stop him.

At times it seemed that Bure was inventing moves almost out of boredom. In the first period, he skated with the puck behind the Leaf net, flipped it over the head of Potvin while zipping past Sylvain Lefebvre, then narrowly missed swatting the puck at the Leaf net the moment it hit the ice. "I've tried it a few times, but this is the playoffs," Bure said. "It is my kind of style to play like this. If I get the chance to do something fancy, I do it."

Later in the period, he did connect on a singularly spectacular move, intercepting Dmitri Mironov's clearing attempt along the boards with his right hand and moving it in one motion toward the middle of the ice, then swerving around a sprawling Dave Ellett to shoot it in the top right corner of the net.

"The things he does aren't so much tricks, they're plays," Canucks head coach Pat Quinn said. "Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't. He's a creative guy, and he has a lot of weapons in his arsenal."

While there were a half-dozen other offensive moves by Bure worth documenting, it was the other elements of his game in evidence last night that indicate a transition from offensive dynamo to two-way player. In the first period, he hammered Leaf defenceman Jamie Macoun with a clean, open-ice belt, one of the several bodychecks he handed out on the night.

Also, with the Canucks defending their one-goal lead in the final minute against a Leaf team that had pulled its goalie, there was Bure on the ice in a defensive posture, hounding centre Doug Gilmour. "I don't always use him that way," Quinn said with a smile. "It was just a hunch tonight. He's done it from time to time. I thought quickness was going to be an element, and he did get the puck a couple of times."
here's the source

http://www.pbfc.org/Oldnews/may94/may94.html

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Old
10-17-2010, 02:27 PM
  #43
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Bure was good at defense, the problem was to get him to play defense. As already said he did it after april. Funny how no one seems to care or think about how he was coached. Vancouver used him as an offensive cannon this was his objective. They didnt want him to be gritty but to just stay at the blue line and wait for the pass and rocket his way up to the offensive zone. In Panthers it was basically either he scores or no one does. I would still rate him as around average on defense (with peaks in playoff games).

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10-17-2010, 02:29 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Bure was good at defense, the problem was to get him to play defense. As already said he did it after april. Funny how no one seems to care or think about how he was coached. Vancouver used him as an offensive cannon this was his objective. They didnt want him to be gritty but to just stay at the blue line and wait for the pass and rocket his way up to the offensive zone. In Panthers it was basically either he scores or no one does. I would still rate him as around average on defense (with peaks in playoff games).
Did his coaches in Vancouver tell him to completely ignore all sense of team play in 1998 when he cherrypicked his way to a 50 goal season so he could hit a contract bonus?

If Bure is average defensively, just who would you consider below average?

I do agree he picked it up in the playoffs, however.

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