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Old
04-13-2011, 10:35 AM
  #326
adam graves
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Yup. If he hit people and was nasty like Chris Pronger or Adam Foote he would be one of the best. He plays like he's in a high level pick up game.
I used to yell at him the ice capades have left the arena. (you can take the fan out of NY, but ...lol)

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04-13-2011, 10:45 AM
  #327
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Well since the Tallon regime has done everything it could to tear down everything JM had "accomplished", it appears Olli was right in wanting Martin to get fired and doing anything he could to get that accomplished. Unfortunately, like me, he was a man ahead of his time!
certainly thoughts about whether or not we should've thrown in the towel back then go through your mind now but we've discussed this before. you could make a case for both sides (tear down and rebuild versus make it over the hump) 3-4 years ago. it's not that hard.

now, it is certainly time to tear things down and dale has done just that.

and olli wasn't right about anything. ever. tho i feel more sorry for him now than anything else, i can admin that i chuckled a little bit when NBC re-ran the final shootout attempt from last year's NYR-PHI finale during that big game two weekends ago. that silly windup he takes around the left face off circle. i remember him doing that in boston years ago and tapping luongo (must've said something like "i got this") then proceeding to go down and flub the shot attempt and lose the game. you got it, olli!

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Yup. If he hit people and was nasty like Chris Pronger or Adam Foote he would be one of the best. He plays like he's in a high level pick up game.
if you read comments from calgary, the fans there aren't really that unhappy with him. they would like more offense for their 7M but the respect is there for his defensive game. i don't know why people continue to expect him to be something he's not. you can be a great defenseman without necessarily being pronger or foote. unfortunately for jay, he makes things look so easy out there, people get the wrong idea. he doesn't have the shoot or the offensive vision to be a top offensive Dman but he's still very good.

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04-13-2011, 10:49 AM
  #328
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certainly thoughts about whether or not we should've thrown in the towel back then go through your mind now but we've discussed this before. you could make a case for both sides (tear down and rebuild versus make it over the hump) 3-4 years ago. it's not that hard.

now, it is certainly time to tear things down and dale has done just that.

and olli wasn't right about anything. ever. tho i feel more sorry for him now than anything else, i can admin that i chuckled a little bit when NBC re-ran the final shootout attempt from last year's NYR-PHI finale during that big game two weekends ago. that silly windup he takes around the left face off circle. i remember him doing that in boston years ago and tapping luongo (must've said something like "i got this") then proceeding to go down and flub the shot attempt and lose the game. you got it, olli!



if you read comments from calgary, the fans there aren't really that unhappy with him. they would like more offense for their 7M but the respect is there for his defensive game. i don't know why people continue to expect him to be something he's not. you can be a great defenseman without necessarily being pronger or foote. unfortunately for jay, he makes things look so easy out there, people get the wrong idea. he doesn't have the shoot or the offensive vision to be a top offensive Dman but he's still very good.
He doesn't have a good shot, I agree. But he is easy to play against because he doesn't hit hard, and doesn't hack or slash around the net. That nastiness would make him much harder to play against and would elevate him, imo, to be one of the best d-men in the league. I never said he wasn't very good just that his personality/style holds him back from being that truly elite D-man people thought he could be.

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04-13-2011, 11:00 AM
  #329
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He doesn't have a good shot, I agree. But he is easy to play against because he doesn't hit hard, and doesn't hack or slash around the net. That nastiness would make him much harder to play against and would elevate him, imo, to be one of the best d-men in the league. I never said he wasn't very good just that his personality/style holds him back from being that truly elite D-man people thought he could be.
did bourque or coffey hack and slash around the net? it's just him. i think he's less easy to play against than peca suggests because he's so mobile and sound defensively, he can swallow you up, even if he doesn't make you pay physically.

what's holding him back from being elite, imo, is the offensive side of his game. and we know he can put up numbers in the right situation. and he could also continue to develop his offensive game if he wanted to push himself. hard to say if it's the environment or lack of drive at this point and since nobody's spending summers with him to see what he's working on and how hard he's working, we don't know.

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04-13-2011, 11:16 AM
  #330
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did bourque or coffey hack and slash around the net? it's just him. i think he's less easy to play against than peca suggests because he's so mobile and sound defensively, he can swallow you up, even if he doesn't make you pay physically.

what's holding him back from being elite, imo, is the offensive side of his game. and we know he can put up numbers in the right situation. and he could also continue to develop his offensive game if he wanted to push himself. hard to say if it's the environment or lack of drive at this point and since nobody's spending summers with him to see what he's working on and how hard he's working, we don't know.
Borque and Coffey had excellent offensive dimensions to their game. I'm saying what he lacks on the offensive side could be made up if he was nastier to play against. His shot is crap. Probably below average. He can contribute offensively but he'll never put up big numbers.

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04-13-2011, 11:42 AM
  #331
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if you read comments from calgary, the fans there aren't really that unhappy with him. they would like more offense for their 7M but the respect is there for his defensive game. i don't know why people continue to expect him to be something he's not. you can be a great defenseman without necessarily being pronger or foote. unfortunately for jay, he makes things look so easy out there, people get the wrong idea. he doesn't have the shoot or the offensive vision to be a top offensive Dman but he's still very good.
I've read them and they are clearly disappointed in him. Calgary fans were expecting an All Star. Instead they got an overpriced stay at home defenseman without any physical component to his game. If they were paying him $4M and he came without the hype I think they would be happy with him.

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04-13-2011, 11:44 AM
  #332
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Borque and Coffey had excellent offensive dimensions to their game. I'm saying what he lacks on the offensive side could be made up if he was nastier to play against. His shot is crap. Probably below average. He can contribute offensively but he'll never put up big numbers.
yes, i know. i'm saying it's pretty clear that's not going to happen. and while his shot isn't great (or very good), he did put up over 40pts 3 of 4 years before leaving FL (and scored 12, 15, 15 goals in those years). he is what he is. i think it's more likely that he satisfies his critics by getting himself back to that level of offensive output. he's never going to come close to the PPG production of those other guys but 40-50 pts could justify his salary. or at least keep people off his back.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:21 PM
  #333
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You don't pay a defensive defenseman that much, he was paid because they thought he had a lot more offense in his game. It's gone backwards quite a bit, not sure why, but the fans there are very disappointed in him. Have been all year.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:22 PM
  #334
adam graves
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I've read them and they are clearly disappointed in him. Calgary fans were expecting an All Star. Instead they got an overpriced stay at home defenseman without any physical component to his game. If they were paying him $4M and he came without the hype I think they would be happy with him.
Anectodally, when calgary came in this year a group of fantastic Calg guys took over a suite right behind me. After cheering back and forth they invited my son and I in and we spent the las 2 periods with them.

If your still awake reading this, the point was they HATED Jayblo. His softness irritated them to no end.

Hes far from an all star, hes barely a second line guy. Like others have said he can rack up minutes only because he stays out of the fray.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:29 PM
  #335
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Anectodally, when calgary came in this year a group of fantastic Calg guys took over a suite right behind me. After cheering back and forth they invited my son and I in and we spent the las 2 periods with them.

If your still awake reading this, the point was they HATED Jayblo. His softness irritated them to no end.

Hes far from an all star, hes barely a second line guy. Like others have said he can rack up minutes only because he stays out of the fray.
He's one hundred percent a first pairing guy and pretty much a #1 d-man. He is so frustrating because he is soft and looks like he could be one of the best in the league.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:44 PM
  #336
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You don't pay a defensive defenseman that much, he was paid because they thought he had a lot more offense in his game. It's gone backwards quite a bit, not sure why, but the fans there are very disappointed in him. Have been all year.
well, i read the current thread about him getting a free pass and the disappointment isn't as apparent/prevalent as you make it seem. there's no doubt he's overpaid for what he delivered this year. no doubt. question is, if he's putting up 40-50pts, are you still disappointed with your return?

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He's one hundred percent a first pairing guy and pretty much a #1 d-man. He is so frustrating because he is soft and looks like he could be one of the best in the league.
love that the poster's main source of information appears to be other disgruntled fans.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:45 PM
  #337
adam graves
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
He's one hundred percent a first pairing guy and pretty much a #1 d-man. He is so frustrating because he is soft and looks like he could be one of the best in the league.


Why? except for eating up minutes wht does he offer? He doesnt score, he doesnt tie up guys, and no one fears him, if anything they look forward to playing him. Lets forget looks and potential, look at his 2 yrs at Calgary.

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04-13-2011, 12:49 PM
  #338
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Why? except for eating up minutes wht does he offer? He doesnt score, he doesnt tie up guys, and no one fears him, if anything they look forward to playing him. Lets forget looks and potential, look at his 2 yrs at Calgary.
He's very good defensively, can skate/defend any forward, makes good outlet passes, can eat up a ton of minutes and doesn't take stupid penalties.. He's a very good d-man just not doing what he looks to be capable of.

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04-13-2011, 01:07 PM
  #339
adam graves
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He's very good defensively, can skate/defend any forward, makes good outlet passes, can eat up a ton of minutes and doesn't take stupid penalties.. He's a very good d-man just not doing what he looks to be capable of.
I agree with everything EXCEPT skate /defend any forward. Thats why hes first line to you and second to me.

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04-13-2011, 01:12 PM
  #340
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1983801/

Speaking of Jaybo.

Best defensive defenseman. Guess whose missing....

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04-13-2011, 01:21 PM
  #341
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1983801/

Speaking of Jaybo.

Best defensive defenseman. Guess whose missing....
touche

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Old
04-13-2011, 01:26 PM
  #342
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touche
Its close RR. I have no lack of respect for anyone thinking hes first line. Just not me.

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04-14-2011, 12:41 PM
  #343
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anyone notice that frolik looked like a different player last night filling in on the 2nd line? he was physical and seemed like a threat most of the night (at least while i was watching). got off a nice shot and rang the pipe at one point in the 3rd. really hadn't seen too many hints of that while he was here. could be his confidence is growing.

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04-14-2011, 12:55 PM
  #344
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He looked OK, still gets pushed off the puck too easily. I don't think he's ready to center a top line!

I did enjoy watching Oreskovich and Higgins too, they played pretty solid.

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04-14-2011, 01:02 PM
  #345
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Frolik isn't a bad player. I think he'll be a Huselius like producer in the right environment. He's just not a difference maker and Tallon didn't want to pay him to play a soft peripheral game.

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04-14-2011, 08:18 PM
  #346
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Gotta admit, I really like Subban. He's in the middle of everything, and while he's still learning, he plays a pretty good game.

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04-14-2011, 08:56 PM
  #347
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Gotta admit, I really like Subban. He's in the middle of everything, and while he's still learning, he plays a pretty good game.
I really like the type of player he is, although I absolute despise the guy. I'd love to have him on the Panthers. He's just what I hope to see Gudbranson turn into.

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04-15-2011, 01:27 PM
  #348
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He looked OK, still gets pushed off the puck too easily. I don't think he's ready to center a top line!

I did enjoy watching Oreskovich and Higgins too, they played pretty solid.
That's really still the main problem with him. I think he just might not have the will to be a great player. Idk what happened to him, because he was so gritty his rookie year.

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04-15-2011, 01:53 PM
  #349
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I really like the type of player he is, although I absolute despise the guy. I'd love to have him on the Panthers. He's just what I hope to see Gudbranson turn into.
Guds is going to be a different type of player. You can see the Pronger comparisons in him. He probably wont be as productive as Pronger was offensively, but he is going to be a nasty SOB in his own end.

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04-17-2011, 09:39 PM
  #350
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Anyone see Frolik trying to fight at the end of the game?

So cute.

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