While Spector is a racist idiot that thinks Quebecers are all beggers, Boisvert brings the good argument that the beggers are the NHL, PKP, Labaume and small entrepreneurs who wants to profit from the project.
Like I said in an earlier thread, I don't want 1$ of public funding going in the project... I would love to see the Nordiques come back, but not at any price, not while the governement will be cutting so many public programs and bring on the "health tax".
It’s interesting, as Alberta and Quebec have many of the same goals when it comes to trying to de-centralize the federal government. One would think that people, commentators and politicians from each province would recognize this, and try to work together to achieve their goal. Ironically, if they did, it would be to the determent of the province I live in (Ontario), but it would make sense for AB and PQ.
That being said, one sport columnist’s opinion piece does not mean that an entire province, or the ROC share his beliefs. I can understand some of his points, and there is some validity to them. Plus, Alberta enjoying the lucky happenstance of having plenty of oil underneath their land, means they do pay a disproportionate amount to federal transfers. It is a simplistic argument, however there is truth to it. However, his insinuations concerning the character of the entire province of Quebec, and by extension the people of Quebec have no place in a rational discussion on this issue. In my opinion, it nullifies everything he says.
But let’s remember, the guy is a sports writer. That doesn’t forgive him, but it should mean most should not even care what he writes. Much like I would not take opinions from sports writers in PQ seriously if they trod into the political sphere.
This was not an article though - it was an editorial - right at the top it says "opinion" and it's written in the first person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett
Its an opinion column. It says "NHL Opinions" at the very top. Therefore, he's supposed to choose a side and make a persuasive column.
Thanks guys, actually didn't realize it was an opinion column.
In that case, I respect his right to have an opinion on the matter. I also have an opinion, and my opinion is that his opinion is that of a cry-baby. Like it's been stated here, no francophone media whined and moaned when Vancouver got the Olympics and got help from the government. So now that Quebec City is doing their best to make a pitch for the Olympics and POSSIBLY to get an NHL franchise as well, THAT'S when they draw the line?
there is obvious truth in what you are writting, but ontario ruins it all. I've never been generally insulted in the maritimes or in the west... but ontario is a strange place to be as a francophone, northern ontario has some french communities ... but toronto, ottawa and windsor are places you really want to avoid if you're asking around for a poutine. The level of hate there is quite scary. not because your a habs fan or anything, just because you're french. With the number of cultural differences and immigrants in those areas , you'd think they love everybody.... but they actually team up against ''frenchies.''
Untrue.
I was born and raised in Ontario as a francophone (Ottawa area) and never had any problems whatsoever.
edit: not directed necessarily at the poster I quoted but a lot of people need to actually travel Canada before expressing their opinions. On both sides of this rediculous exchange.
[QUOTE=JaymzB;27709897]It’s interesting, as Alberta and Quebec have many of the same goals when it comes to trying to de-centralize the federal government. One would think that people, commentators and politicians from each province would recognize this, and try to work together to achieve their goal. Ironically, if they did, it would be to the determent of the province I live in (Ontario), but it would make sense for AB and PQ.
This is so true and it's a point of view I don't hear often enough.
If the likes of J.Parizeau, L. Bouchard and B.Landry had recognized that instead of waving the blue flag of their "difference", they could have partnered with other provinces who also wish to decentralize and actually accomplished something without fueling the Franco/Anglo dichotomy.
I grew up in Saskatchewan and even though nobody could pronounce my name(Jean-François) I never had problems with anybody(except the indians but they had problems with everyone). I mean my neighbors were pure english speaking people and they sent their kids to french immersion schools.
This is so true and it's a point of view I don't hear often enough.
If the likes of J.Parizeau, L. Bouchard and B.Landry had recognized that instead of waving the blue flag of their "difference", they could have partnered with other provinces who also wish to decentralize and actually accomplished something without fueling the Franco/Anglo dichotomy.
The onus is not only on leaders of the PQ, but other provinces as well.
The article is ridiculously awful. A caricature, even.
Not wanting to spend taxpayer money on an arena is a valid argument. Reasonable people may disagree but it's hard to fault someone for putting that theory forward.
His slapping paint on Quebecers with a brush roughly the breadth of Canada is not.
Who does he think he's fooling when he says he'll try his best not to "paint the picture of a province that seems always to have it's hand out; a people who look at the way things are done across the rest of Canada and appear to say to themselves, “Why should we have to pay also?” "
Or that: "In Canada, whenever there is a Shawinigate, a sponsorship scandal, accusations of a crooked judge-naming process, or a good old-fashioned political sex scandal a la Julie Couillard, it seems it is brought to us by our Quebecois friends."
That's not just stereotyping based on bad data, it's misaimed -- even if it is true, it might just be that this happens elsewhere with the same frequency as in Quebec and that la Belle Province is just better at ferreting them out or more prone to care. (Bet he didn't think of that.)
He's not helping the existing stereotype of Albertans that exists around here.
It's an opinion piece, sure -- and a terrible one. If that kind of tripe was published in the political section of a newspaper, it would rightly get decried.
The article is ridiculously awful. A caricature, even.
Not wanting to spend taxpayer money on an arena is a valid argument. Reasonable people may disagree but it's hard to fault someone for putting that theory forward.
His slapping paint on Quebecers with a brush roughly the breadth of Canada is not.
Who does he think he's fooling when he says he'll try his best not to "paint the picture of a province that seems always to have it's hand out; a people who look at the way things are done across the rest of Canada and appear to say to themselves, “Why should we have to pay also?” "
Or that: "In Canada, whenever there is a Shawinigate, a sponsorship scandal, accusations of a crooked judge-naming process, or a good old-fashioned political sex scandal a la Julie Couillard, it seems it is brought to us by our Quebecois friends."
That's not just stereotyping based on bad data, it's misaimed -- even if it is true, it might just be that this happens elsewhere with the same frequency as in Quebec and that la Belle Province is just better at ferreting them out or more prone to care. (Bet he didn't think of that.)
He's not helping the existing stereotype of Albertans that exists around here.
It's an opinion piece, sure -- and a terrible one. If that kind of tripe was published in the political section of a newspaper, it would rightly get decried.
I think Spector sounds bitter and over the top but he does have a point.
Why is this being funded by the taxpayers for the benefit of a 10 billion $ revenue media empire and which is controlled by a family who are also billionaires? Especially when all other recent NHL arena projects in Canada have been privately financed? Molson Breweries took a big risk on the Molson Centre, why does Quebecor and KPK get a free ride??
Just because the government has blown a lot of money on events like Vancouver, G20 and the Big Owe stade for example doesn't make it OK to keep spending more. I don't agree with those either, they are ego events for bureaucrats, politicians & other VIPs, their economic benefits to the general population are dubious as well according to many economists.
I understand the political motives here in an important political area, and the parties involved (Harper, Charest, Lebeaume) want to take some credit for something that will be immensely popular in the region and provice, but the governments could get a lot of credit with a token investment (say 100 million split 40/40/20) with the other 300-400 million picked up by Quebecor & KPK, they should not be paying the whole thing which just stinks!
I think Spector sounds bitter and over the top but he does have a point.
He has a valid point when he says that "taxpayer dollars should not pay for pro sport arenas". He should make that point. I might even be made to agree with it.
He is not making that point. He is making the point that "Quebecers are corrupt beggars who always beg for, and get, handouts from the Feds, and Alberta is paying for that."
He has a valid point when he says that "taxpayer dollars should not pay for pro sport arenas". He should make that point. I might even be made to agree with it.
He is not making that point. He is making the point that "Quebecers are corrupt beggars who always beg for, and get, handouts from the Feds, and Alberta is paying for that."
Well it's true even though it is insultingly & crudely worded. Quebec is a very corrupt province and receives a lot of money every year from the west. Which part of that is false?
That is a valid rant with solid arguments... But there's something in the tone that feels really wrong...I would say borderline hainous.
No your right it was hainous.
He just put down in words what most in the ROC beleive and think, not all, but most.
After 7 years out west I can attest to that.
It's been like that to long to change.
On the other side I still don't understand (well actually I do) why there was no money in 1995-96 but all of a sudden durring a down turn even the Feds want to give "La Ville de Québec" the funds they need to build a crucial part of every cities cultural center. IN this case it's all political play.
And anyway what his everyone *****ing about. The Feds and the provincial gouvernement wanted to help Hamilton get an upgrade to there Arena (200 million I think).
Times have changed I guess.
Quebec is a very corrupt province and receives a lot of money every year from the west. Which part of that is false?
A few highly-publicized scandals does not a corrupt province make. It's quite possible that Quebec is less corrupt than the others and that stuff like this therefore gains wider publicity. Or that they just care more.
We'd need to compare instances of corruption between Quebec and other provinces, and figure out whether, indeed, Quebec has more.
And anyway what his everyone *****ing about. The Feds and the provincial gouvernement wanted to help Hamilton get an upgrade to there Arena (200 million I think).
Times have changed I guess.
Pretty sure the same people who disagree with QC getting taxpayer funding disagree with Hamilton getting funding, and most other corporate welfare funding too. Who are the hypcrites you believe you see?
I was surprised, I'll be honest. I had no idea Sportsnet openly supported racism and bigotry, but boy oh boy do you ever!
Posting Mark Spector's latest rant about the arena project in Quebec City had nothing to do with hockey, or sports. It was a politically fueled racist rant which Sportsnet gladly posted on the website.
To say that Quebec is the "Florida of Canada" and that "In the United States, a disproportionate amount of mail scammers, telephone fraudsters, real estate schemes and all-around con artists reside in Florida. In Canada, whenever there is a Shawinigate, a sponsorship scandal, accusations of a crooked judge-naming process, or a good old-fashioned political sex scandal a la Julie Couillard, it seems it is brought to us by our Quebecois friends." is absolutely ridiculous.
But hey, Mr Spector might be a simple-minded ignorant wannabe journalist, at the end of the day he's allowed to think (and even write) whatever he wants. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, Spector can write this racist crap. What is truly inconceivable is that Sportsnet would publish, and therefore SUPPORT this article.
I do expect a response on this. You can rest assured this type of journalism will be shared with other media outlets.
Pretty sure the same people who disagree with QC getting taxpayer funding disagree with Hamilton getting funding, and most other corporate welfare funding too. Who are the hypcrites you believe you see?
I'm not witch hunting, maybe you are?. I just stated that it's not just in Quebec that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If it's politically advantageous they will spend "there" tax money.
You already lost the argument before the discussion could start. WOW
Wow, you fail miserably.
Do you actually understand Godwin's law?
Here's something you might have ommited to read :
"The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate,but only asserts that thelikelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses."
That poster is talking about racism, so captain obvious, it's almost certain a reference to the Nazis will arise, but that doesn't make his argument invalid in any way or form, because Godwin's law asserts the POSSIBILITY of the Hitler comparison arising from a discussion, not that the Hitler comparison is invalid. Sometimes, the Hitler comparison is valid, especially when the discussion revolves around racism.
You should go back to school and take up philosophy classes. You need some. Bad.
How about posting a pool to see how many posters are in favor of a totally publicly founded arena, a partially founded or a 100% privately founded arena ?
I'm not witch hunting, maybe you are?. I just stated that it's not just in Quebec that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If it's politically advantageous they will spend "there" tax money.
Oh I agree, it is blatently political vote buying, which is why responsible citizens must make noise about it as well so it becomes a net vote loss to bribe voters with arenas.
He has valid points. As much as I want to see another hockey team in Canada (esp. QC), 100% public funding for the new rink is not a great idea. I can't believe they can't get private companies that will benefit from the new venue to contribute for at least 10-25% with some kind of special tax and PKP to give some more dough to call it the Videotron Center.
It does scream of a full-fledged double standard.
I hope the Molsons will be asking for a tax refund from the province and fed, for all the exagerated taxes they pay to the city of Montreal.
One thing Spector has right is that PKP is in bed with Harper, I have almost no doubt about it.
