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Old
09-05-2010, 10:31 AM
  #1
Dark Knight
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Toronto - Edmonton



Mikhail Grabovski
Carl Gunnarson
2nd '11



Dustin Penner


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Old
09-05-2010, 10:36 AM
  #2
Puckclektr
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My opinion is grabo will be playing in the khl in a couple years cuz nobody will want him. I don't get all these proposals. It frustrates me that IMO the leafs rebuild has been destroyed or delayed. O just don't get what the rush to rebuild so fast is. Value seems like it is there though.

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Old
09-05-2010, 10:36 AM
  #3
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The value is there and it is a very tempting deal, but I just don't like the thought of another forward coming back in the deal. I also want to see how Penner does with a healthy Hemsky for a full year. It's not a bad proposal at all, I just think if you switched out Grabovski for another defenseman then I would probably do the deal.

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09-05-2010, 10:40 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
My opinion is grabo will be playing in the khl in a couple years cuz nobody will want him. I don't get all these proposals. It frustrates me that IMO the leafs rebuild has been destroyed or delayed. O just don't get what the rush to rebuild so fast is. Value seems like it is there though.
Grabovski is a pretty solid player. The guy contributes in more ways than one on the ice. He's pretty responsible defensively. The guy can dangle and set up players. He has 50+ point potential a la Jiri Hudler.

I'd keep Grabovski but the addition of Penner would make him expendable.

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Old
09-05-2010, 10:42 AM
  #5
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No thanks. I'd love to acquire Gunnarson, but if were trading our only top six player with size, it better be to address one of our more pressing needs.

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Old
09-05-2010, 10:46 AM
  #6
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I am an Oilers fan that feels that the Oilers aren't in a position to be doing quality for quantity deals, since we have such a little amount of quality players. Penner is our first 30 goal scorer since Ryan Smyth, and I would be hesitant to trade him away for a package of worse players. The Oilers can sign players similar to Grabovski and Gunnarson on the free agent market, it will be a lot harder to find another Penner. The fact that Penner is also our only top six forward with size and we have no other experienced left wing makes him pretty well untradable in my eyes anyways.

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Old
09-05-2010, 10:52 AM
  #7
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Grabovski is another Nilsson or O'Sullivan type of player. Not good enough to be in the top-6 of a playoff team and not defensive / big enough to play in the bottom-6. Oilers flushed those players out.

Send the 2012 1st over - that would be tempting.

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Old
09-05-2010, 10:53 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slave View Post


Mikhail Grabovski
Carl Gunnarson
2nd '11



Dustin Penner

Nope.

Just because the Leafs look to have a deep defence core doesn't mean it is time to start trading the youth.

Beauchimen has a year left.
(Hoping he gets traded for assets before the end of his contract)
Komisarek has two years.

Lebda has two years.

In two years we have under contract and the rights to:

Luke Schenn
Carl Gunnarson
Dion Phaneuf

It is great to think that all of the prospects are going to work out but ultimately they won't. We will probably be lucky if two work out from Holzer, Mikus and Aulie. Lashoff is depth to me. May turn out to be more. Blacker could be huge to our success or a flop.

Holzer, Mikus and Aulie are just the ones I see competing right now. To me you don't deal a player till you know there is someone to replace them within the system or returning within the deal.

At this point for me Gunnarson is a deal breaker for me. It would have to be someone a lot more consistent for me to part ways with him.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:18 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Paajallberle View Post
I am an Oilers fan that feels that the Oilers aren't in a position to be doing quality for quantity deals, since we have such a little amount of quality players. Penner is our first 30 goal scorer since Ryan Smyth, and I would be hesitant to trade him away for a package of worse players. The Oilers can sign players similar to Grabovski and Gunnarson on the free agent market, it will be a lot harder to find another Penner. The fact that Penner is also our only top six forward with size and we have no other experienced left wing makes him pretty well untradable in my eyes anyways.
Oh is that right?

Hm.. Name two people who have their same skill level who are unsigned........... I mean, you tried though?

But yeah no thanks, Penner needs to be a lot more consistent before we give up the extremely well priced Carl Gunnarsson.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:26 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
Oh is that right?

Hm.. Name two people who have their same skill level who are unsigned........... I mean, you tried though?

But yeah no thanks, Penner needs to be a lot more consistent before we give up the extremely well priced Carl Gunnarsson.
I was talking about the future. There will be always be players of Gunnarson and Grabovski's skill level becoming free agents every year, but 30 goal scoring power forwards are a lot harder to find.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:30 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Paajallberle View Post
I was talking about the future. There will be always be players of Gunnarson and Grabovski's skill level becoming free agents every year, but 30 goal scoring power forwards are a lot harder to find.
Okay, I can understand if you would want to say no to this trade, but to say there's a Carl Gunnarsson in free agency every year is absurd. You're defenitly underrating him.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:37 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Okay, I can understand if you would want to say no to this trade, but to say there's a Carl Gunnarsson in free agency every year is absurd. You're defenitly underrating him.
Doesn't matter, they have Tom Gilbert man!!!! They're ready to go!

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:38 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Okay, I can understand if you would want to say no to this trade, but to say there's a Carl Gunnarsson in free agency every year is absurd. You're defenitly underrating him.
I think you are overrating him if you think that Gunnarson would have been the best free agent defenceman on the market this off season.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:39 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
Oh is that right?

Hm.. Name two people who have their same skill level who are unsigned........... I mean, you tried though?

But yeah no thanks, Penner needs to be a lot more consistent before we give up the extremely well priced Carl Gunnarsson.
Let's be honest here. Grabovski doesn't bring anything to the table. People that are better that were unsigned for most of free agency til very recently: Comrie, Stempniak, Torres, Conroy. There's plenty of fringe 2nd liners available every year, what sets them apart is they are much better at defense as well and can actually fill other roles. Grabovski isn't good enough to be a 2nd liner, he's not smart nor big enough to be a 3rd liner. He's a garbage player plain and simple, if he wasn't he wouldn't be in every Toronto proposal right next to Caputi.

Gunnarsson is a tough sell. He's had all of 43 games in the league. He could get better, he could struggle. Too small of a time frame to actually assess his value and his skill. I don't know how keen many teams will be to buy high on him while his value is up and there's still so much uncertainty that surrounds him.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:39 AM
  #15
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IMO Oilers should do a 1 on 1 trade for more talent. Maybe Penner and a 2nd for Bobby Ryan.

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09-05-2010, 11:41 AM
  #16
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IMO Oilers should do a 1 on 1 trade for more talent. Maybe Penner and a 2nd for Bobby Ryan.
Haha good one.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:46 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
Let's be honest here. Grabovski doesn't bring anything to the table. People that are better that were unsigned for most of free agency til very recently: Comrie, Stempniak, Torres, Conroy. There's plenty of fringe 2nd liners available every year, what sets them apart is they are much better at defense as well and can actually fill other roles. Grabovski isn't good enough to be a 2nd liner, he's not smart nor big enough to be a 3rd liner. He's a garbage player plain and simple, if he wasn't he wouldn't be in every Toronto proposal right next to Caputi.
Hahaha. See it's one thing to try and look at stats to determine who's good and who's not, but you just assumed way too much here.

Stempniak is most definitely NOT as good as Mikhail Grabovski.
Raffi Torres is light years below Mikhail Grabovski.
Comrie had a hard time playing for the worst team in the league, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and let Crosby/Malkin set him up all year then give my opinion.
Conroy, well I just don't care.

Grabovski is definitely good enough to be a 2nd liner. If he put in the effort he could be a hell of a hockey player. He's as smooth as anybody on his skates, but his 80% commitment every night holds him back.

Quote:
Gunnarsson is a tough sell. He's had all of 43 games in the league. He could get better, he could struggle. Too small of a time frame to actually assess his value and his skill. I don't know how keen many teams will be to buy high on him while his value is up and there's still so much uncertainty that surrounds him.
Well than fortunately for us he's not getting sold. He had 43 games where he was playing over 20 minutes a night (on average). If you would have watched all 43 of his game you would be right beside me vouching for how good this guy is.

Next season when he's an RFA, there's no doubt in my mind teams will send an offer sheet his way.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:47 AM
  #18
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Haha good one.
They basically had identical seasons, and Penner played with MUCH worse linemates.


Penner is also only 5 years older and has a much more reasonable contract. Plus, Ryan probably won't even re sign with the Ducks.

Penner + a 2nd is fair value for Ryan.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:49 AM
  #19
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Comrie had a hard time playing for the worst team in the league, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and let Crosby/Malkin set him up all year then give my opinion.
He did? I think you are the one that is just looking at stats if you think that. Comrie played great considering how he was sick for the majority of the year. He was always going in and out of the lineup due to illnesses so it was amazing that he was able to put up the points that he did.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:50 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
They basically had identical seasons, and Penner played with MUCH worse linemates.


Penner is also only 5 years older and has a much more reasonable contract. Plus, Ryan probably won't even re sign with the Ducks.

Penner + a 2nd is fair value for Ryan.
I know you aren't an Oilers fan, because you called Sam Gagner a bust in another thread, so I have to assume that you are a troll that is posting this to make the rest of us Oilers fans look bad.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:51 AM
  #21
Gobo
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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
Hahaha. See it's one thing to try and look at stats to determine who's good and who's not, but you just assumed way too much here.

Stempniak is most definitely NOT as good as Mikhail Grabovski.
Raffi Torres is light years below Mikhail Grabovski.
Comrie had a hard time playing for the worst team in the league, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and let Crosby/Malkin set him up all year then give my opinion.
Conroy, well I just don't care.

Grabovski is definitely good enough to be a 2nd liner. If he put in the effort he could be a hell of a hockey player. He's as smooth as anybody on his skates, but his 80% commitment every night holds him back.
Stempniak is as good. Torres at his best is better than Grabovski at his best. Comrie battled mono, and injuries for most of the year. Grabo isn't a 2nd liner normally, when he plays his best he is but he's not that consistent.

EDIT: Pretty sure Hermit is an Avs fan.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:52 AM
  #22
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man i love leaf fans . they think every player on there team is the best . i wouldnt touch this deal with a 10foot pool. penner is a proven player unlike gunnerson and grabo

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:54 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Paajallberle View Post
He did? I think you are the one that is just looking at stats if you think that. Comrie played great considering how he was sick for the majority of the year. He was always going in and out of the lineup due to illnesses so it was amazing that he was able to put up the points that he did.
Oh be realistic. You can't actually tell me that Comrie succeeded in Edmonton.
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Stempniak is as good. Torres at his best is better than Grabovski at his best. Comrie battled mono, and injuries for most of the year. Grabo isn't a 2nd liner normally, when he plays his best he is but he's not that consistent.

EDIT: Pretty sure Hermit is an Avs fan.
Alright, I give up with you. Think what you'd like.

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Old
09-05-2010, 11:57 AM
  #24
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I think you are overrating him if you think that Gunnarson would have been the best free agent defenceman on the market this off season.
When did I say that? I said, none of them are like Gunnar as far as their skillsets go, I didn't say there weren't better ones.

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Old
09-05-2010, 12:02 PM
  #25
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Oh is that right?

Hm.. Name two people who have their same skill level who are unsigned........... I mean, you tried though?

But yeah no thanks, Penner needs to be a lot more consistent before we give up the extremely well priced Carl Gunnarsson.
Talking only about skill level, there are a number of FAs that are equal or better than both Grabovski and Gunnarson. For example, Slava Kozlov is still looking to catch on with an NHL team, he's probably more skilled than any player on either the Oilers or Leafs (IMO, Hemsky could be close).

If you want to talk about finding similar players on the FA market, then it is very very hard to find players comparable to Gunnarsson. Defenseman the age and potential of Gunnarsson rarely land on the FA market. Grabovski on the other hand, every off season there are a number of players very similar to Grabovski that end up on the market. Even at this late point in the FA season O'Sullivan is still available.

It's silly to say that players like Gunnarsson are common on the FA market and it's silly to say that players like Grabovski are rare on the FA market.

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