Imagine if JVR had the same speed or better than of that of Gagne and maybe even better hands, plus being more physical? All we can hope for?
Gagne was a hell of a player, if JVR turned into the player Gagne was I would be very pleased. I am very happy that the coach he is coming into the league under is Laviolette and not Stevens.
As much as Stevens was supposed to be a great skills coach, I'd rather have him learning from someone with Laviolette's mentality and approach. He doesn't seem like the kind of coach who you can remain a sissy and still play for, not that I really subscribe to the idea that JVR is overly soft. If he can do for JVR what Holland did for Gagne's defensive game, that would be awesome.
Gagne was a hell of a player, if JVR turned into the player Gagne was I would be very pleased. I am very happy that the coach he is coming into the league under is Laviolette and not Stevens.
As much as Stevens was supposed to be a great skills coach, I'd rather have him learning from someone with Laviolette's mentality and approach. He doesn't seem like the kind of coach who you can remain a sissy and still play for, not that I really subscribe to the idea that JVR is overly soft. If he can do for JVR what Holland did for Gagne's defensive game, that would be awesome.
Well he wast listed as 200lbs last season and they say he will come in at 206, so maybe 6lbs.
Unless he used roids, then I don't think he could put on 10-15lbs of lean muscle in a few months.
Well you have to consider how much weight he could have lost over the season, I would think it's in the realm of possibility that he dropped 10 or 15 lbs just from the rigors of playing 100 games.
Well you have to consider how much weight he could have lost over the season, I would think it's in the realm of possibility that he dropped 10 or 15 lbs just from the rigors of playing 100 games.
In addition to that, his age. It isn't outside the realm of possibility for an early 20s professional athlete on a professional weightlifting and nutrition plan to pack on muscle/weight with relative ease.
It's when you see guys in their late 20s early 30s -- who have supposedly been training for their entire career -- that suddenly bulk up significantly that it can be alarming (especially if their head expands). That being said, people may remember that JR bulked up when he came to Philly and didn't like playing with the extra muscle weight...
10-15 pounds of muscle for someone who his entire job was lifting (important) with a professional nutritionist (very important) who didn't have much muscle bulk to begin with (VERY important) is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.
In fact, considering the factors I would have been quite disappointed in his work ethic (or his workout routine, considering we all knew he needed to focus on lifting) if he hadn't put on at least 10 lbs of muscle.
Don't expect these types of gains next season, though.
10-15 pounds of muscle for someone who his entire job was lifting (important) with a professional nutritionist (very important) who didn't have much muscle bulk to begin with (VERY important) is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.
In fact, considering the factors I would have been quite disappointed in his work ethic (or his workout routine, considering we all knew he needed to focus on lifting) if he hadn't put on at least 10 lbs of muscle.
Don't expect these types of gains next season, though.
First off he is not coming in with 10-15lbs extra muscle. He weighed in last year at 200lbs and is coming in at 206lbs. He added at most 6lbs of pure muscle, which even then won't be 100% muscle.
First off he is not coming in with 10-15lbs extra muscle. He weighed in last year at 200lbs and is coming in at 206lbs. He added at most 6lbs of pure muscle, which even then won't be 100% muscle.
As someone stated earlier in the thread. Starting a 100 game season at 200 lbs does not equal ending a 100 game season at 200 lbs. Considering he was likely 190 at the start of the summer I am pretty satisfied with his gains, especially if alot of said gains came in the form of core/back strengthening and not just glamour (relatively useless) muscles.
As someone stated earlier in the thread. Starting a 100 game season at 200 lbs does not equal ending a 100 game season at 200 lbs. Considering he was likely 190 at the start of the summer I am pretty satisfied with his gains, especially if alot of said gains came in the form of core/back strengthening and not just glamour (relatively useless) muscles.
We can speculate all day what he was "likely" at, if anything he could have gained some weight at the end of the season if he ate appropriately.
All we can do is look at what he was listed as and what he is going to weigh in as.
We can speculate all day what he was "likely" at, if anything he could have gained some weight at the end of the season if he ate appropriately.
All we can do is look at what he was listed as and what he is going to weigh in as.
Personally I am satisfied with 6lbs.
To each their own, I guess.
Considering the man was getting paid 413K this summer (1/4 of his cap hit) to do nothing but lift weights hard and eat 3000+ calories a day with high protein intake then I don't think 6 lbs for someone who started skinny is much.
I trained my brother this summer (who is 6'3 210 - weak and a little chubby - think JVR with a potbelly). He most likely ate like **** like he usually does, but he lifted with me 4 times a week for 2 hours at a time and dropped to 200, but I would guesstimate that he put on about 8 lbs. of muscle, due to size and strength gains.
I just would like to expect more from a professional (with professional diet and training aids and nothing better to do with his time) than I would from an amateur (with semi-professional training, a **** diet and a full time job)
As I said, I am just hoping that he put an emphasis on muscle groups that actually matter like core, back and upper legs and laid off the curls and all the other stuff that is useless unless you want to look good in a wifebeater.
10-15 pounds of muscle for someone who his entire job was lifting (important) with a professional nutritionist (very important) who didn't have much muscle bulk to begin with (VERY important) is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.
In fact, considering the factors I would have been quite disappointed in his work ethic (or his workout routine, considering we all knew he needed to focus on lifting) if he hadn't put on at least 10 lbs of muscle.
Don't expect these types of gains next season, though.
I said this last year about someone, but everyone laughed at me.
JVR is going to be a force. Maybe not this year, but certainly next year. I see him having a rather average year this year, with next year, exploding onto the scene.
Considering the man was getting paid 413K this summer (1/4 of his cap hit) to do nothing but lift weights hard and eat 3000+ calories a day with high protein intake then I don't think 6 lbs for someone who started skinny is much.
I trained my brother this summer (who is 6'3 210 - weak and a little chubby - think JVR with a potbelly). He most likely ate like **** like he usually does, but he lifted with me 4 times a week for 2 hours at a time and dropped to 200, but I would guesstimate that he put on about 8 lbs. of muscle, due to size and strength gains.
I just would like to expect more from a professional (with professional diet and training aids and nothing better to do with his time) than I would from an amateur (with semi-professional training, a **** diet and a full time job)
As I said, I am just hoping that he put an emphasis on muscle groups that actually matter like core, back and upper legs and laid off the curls and all the other stuff that is useless unless you want to look good in a wifebeater.
I'll got out on a limb here and guess JVR has probably been training for many years to accomplish getting to the NHL level in the first place. Comparing someone's out of shape gains "geusstimates" to a professional athlete is pretty absurd.
To make matters even worse the "ideal" 1lbs of week is from Hypertrophy gains, which do not focus on power and strength, but rather maximized muscle gains. I think 6lbs is a perfect amount, because hopefully he was focusing on power training for explosiveness and strength.
I'll got out on a limb here and guess JVR has probably been training for many years to accomplish getting to the NHL level in the first place. Comparing someone's out of shape gains "geusstimates" to a professional athlete is pretty absurd.
To make matters even worse the "ideal" 1lbs of week is from Hypertrophy gains, which do not focus on power and strength, but rather maximized muscle gains. I think 6lbs is a perfect amount, because hopefully he was focusing on power training for explosiveness and strength.
Oh, c'mon, KF, why couldn't an amateur provide better weight training guidance than one of the most reputable outfits out there?
It's the standard HF Board logic: every wannabe internet scout can evaluate players better than scouts who've actually seen them, every poster on here could draft better than Homer. Every 'never played organized hockey never mind coached' poster is better than our coach. And every GM wannabe who has never made a major decision in their lives is more qualified to be the GM than Holmgren. Get with it.
I saw JVR at the STH BBQ, and even from that you can tell how much he added. We knew it would happen though, everyone here knew this time last year that he was going to have to add muscle for this coming season, and he did.
I saw JVR at the STH BBQ, and even from that you can tell how much he added. We knew it would happen though, everyone here knew this time last year that he was going to have to add muscle for this coming season, and he did.
Oh, c'mon, KF, why couldn't an amateur provide better weight training guidance than one of the most reputable outfits out there?
It's the standard HF Board logic: every wannabe internet scout can evaluate players better than scouts who've actually seen them, every poster on here could draft better than Homer. Every 'never played organized hockey never mind coached' poster is better than our coach. And every GM wannabe who has never made a major decision in their lives is more qualified to be the GM than Holmgren. Get with it.
In defense of HF this was true when Stevens was the head coach. Not to mention People were screaming bloody murder to take John Carlson, Homer traded the pick for Steve Eminger. Who would you rather have?
In defense of HF this was true when Stevens was the head coach. Not to mention People were screaming bloody murder to take John Carlson, Homer traded the pick for Steve Eminger. Who would you rather have?
The whole absolutism and total omniscient argument about those that are in the actual positions to make decisions know best is one huge fallacy. They would be just fine under an authoritarian top down arrangement. Like you note there are plenty of people on here that make and have made valid arguments....it's called thinking outside the box.
Group think and not seeking outside perspectives b/c you are in a position of authority and your "underlings" are not does more harm than good oftentimes. This is not to say you have to consider every "commoner's" perspective but a good manager/organization knows how to separate the wheat from the chaff and does seek outside perspectives especially if their revenues are dependent on the approval of their customers/fan base.
I'll got out on a limb here and guess JVR has probably been training for many years to accomplish getting to the NHL level in the first place. Comparing someone's out of shape gains "geusstimates" to a professional athlete is pretty absurd.
To make matters even worse the "ideal" 1lbs of week is from Hypertrophy gains, which do not focus on power and strength, but rather maximized muscle gains. I think 6lbs is a perfect amount, because hopefully he was focusing on power training for explosiveness and strength.
Ah, you're kind of ignoring an important factor here: JVR is 21 years and 4 months old. Physically, his body is literally still growing and no matter how much he'd been working out, he would still be able to gain mass.
Look at a dude who is in good shape at 20.
Look at that same dude in good shape at 30. He'll be "thicker."
You see this especially with basketball players, because they don't really train for a large musculature the way that other athletes do. Like, MJ for example... much bigger dude later on in his career physically.
Within two years, JVR will be our most effective offensive asset.
Everyone goes nuts over Giroux, but I think JVR's ceiling is higher. Not to say Giroux wont be a star, but I have extremely high hopes for JVR right now.
Within two years, JVR will be our most effective offensive asset.
Everyone goes nuts over Giroux, but I think JVR's ceiling is higher. Not to say Giroux wont be a star, but I have extremely high hopes for JVR right now.
I think JVR has a much higher ceiling for scoring, but I think Giroux has a higher ceiling for being a premiere play maker.
Ah, you're kind of ignoring an important factor here: JVR is 21 years and 4 months old. Physically, his body is literally still growing and no matter how much he'd been working out, he would still be able to gain mass.
Look at a dude who is in good shape at 20.
Look at that same dude in good shape at 30. He'll be "thicker."
You see this especially with basketball players, because they don't really train for a large musculature the way that other athletes do. Like, MJ for example... much bigger dude later on in his career physically.
Actually you could think the exact opposite.
Someone at 20 has a difficult time of adding lots of amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Or you can think it takes a long time to gain serious amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Especially when you start to consider bone mass development as well.
21 is not 16. He is not growing in stature anymore, which could account for a much larger growth, but once again that wont be muscle mass, and rather bone, tissue etc..
I am not saying that he hasn't added mass. I am saying 15lbs of lean muscle mass is way too over optimistic for someone to gain in 2-3 months. Outside of the use of steroids. Especially if you are training strength/power and not hypertrophy.
I am going to go with my years of reading and applying training articles and medical/nutritional articles about optimum/possible growth levels of muscle mass instead.
Last edited by KimiFerrari: 09-10-2010 at 05:07 PM.
Within two years, JVR will be our most effective offensive asset.
Everyone goes nuts over Giroux, but I think JVR's ceiling is higher. Not to say Giroux wont be a star, but I have extremely high hopes for JVR right now.
A #2 pick overall vs a pick in the 20's. Big difference here. JVR's ceiling BETTER be higher. I just dig Claude's game. The s.o.b. plays with grit along with a high skill set. I look forward to these two in Orange and Black for years to come. GO FLYERS
Yeah I posted that before I knew how much he put on.
I mean, I think the bigger thing for him to do is to maintain weight and stamina for the whole season.
The first 20 games or so of last year, I thought he was dynamite, but then the team hit a rut and by the time we got out of it, JVR just wasn't the same guy anymore.
So part of that is just being a rookie, but I think part of it was not being totally prepared for the grind of the NHL season. So hopefully he'll be better prepared this year and more prepared for those January, February, March games when it can get really tough.
