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Art Ross Coaching Style

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09-09-2010, 08:46 PM
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kaiser matias
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Art Ross Coaching Style

Currently working on the Art Ross article on Wikipedia, and one thing that is seriously lacking is what type of coaching style he used. All that is currently included is that when he coached the Hamilton Tigers his training camp had an unusual emphases on physical training (which obviously didn't help). And that he was the first coach to pull a goalie (which also didn't help). Is there anything else out there about what he did in his coaching career? There is nothing in what I have access to, though I'm sure someone here has something.

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09-09-2010, 09:43 PM
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nik jr
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milt schmidt said that art ross wanted his players to keep the puck instead of dumping it into the offensive zone.

someone once told me art ross' ideas had some influence on tarasov, but i do not know if that is true.

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09-09-2010, 10:04 PM
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Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser matias View Post
Currently working on the Art Ross article on Wikipedia, and one thing that is seriously lacking is what type of coaching style he used. All that is currently included is that when he coached the Hamilton Tigers his training camp had an unusual emphases on physical training (which obviously didn't help). And that he was the first coach to pull a goalie (which also didn't help). Is there anything else out there about what he did in his coaching career? There is nothing in what I have access to, though I'm sure someone here has something.
He invented the "kitty bar the door" tactic, which is a similar concept to today's "trap".

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09-09-2010, 10:09 PM
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kaiser matias
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
He invented the "kitty bar the door" tactic, which is a similar concept to today's "trap".
He created that when with the Senators during the 1915 Stanley Cup challenges. Tied with the Montreal Wanderers for best record in the NHA, he used it to slow down the Wanderers, who were easily a faster team than the Senators. It worked against the Wanderers, but did nothing to stop the Vancouver Millionaires from blowing past the Senators.

However, he was not the coach of the Senators at the time, just one of the defencemen.

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09-09-2010, 10:34 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Art Ross

It would be interesting to look at how Art Ross adapted to the various rule changes during his career.

When the forward pass rules were liberalized at the start of the 1929-30 season his Bruins took full advantage bringing about other rule changes partially into the season.Interesting counterpoint to the "kitty bar the door" defense which greatly contributed to the liberalization of the forward pass rules.

Comparing "kitty bar the door" to the "trap" is rather iffy. Pre forward pass, pre Red Line era tactic with little line changes, no transition game,no icing, forwards not having to clear the defensive zone. Strictly from a stifling the offensive perspective, perhaps.


When the Red Line was introduced at the start of the 1943-44 season, his Bruins lagged somewhat in adapting. Art Ross retired after the 1944-4 season.

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09-09-2010, 11:26 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Here's an article about Art Ross. This guy did profiles of every historically significant coach. He makes at least one error in the article though, calling Ross a low scoring defenseman as a player, when he was actually one of the best offensive defensemen of the era.

http://insidehockey.com/?p=6470

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09-10-2010, 03:40 AM
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from reading a very large number of old newspaper articles from the early 20th century, "kitty bar the door" was just lining up players across the defensive zone.

it was effective b/c there was no forward pass in the offensive zone. i have never read anything about art ross inventing it, other than from his bio on legends of hockey.


articles i read about the 1915 finals did not mention ottawa using that strategy (articles were not very long), but vancouver millionaires annihilated ottawa. 3 game sweep and vancouver outscored ottawa 26-8.

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09-10-2010, 04:30 AM
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Canadiens1958
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Distinction

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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
from reading a very large number of old newspaper articles from the early 20th century, "kitty bar the door" was just lining up players across the defensive zone.

it was effective b/c there was no forward pass in the offensive zone. i have never read anything about art ross inventing it, other than from his bio on legends of hockey.


articles i read about the 1915 finals did not mention ottawa using that strategy (articles were not very long), but vancouver millionaires annihilated ottawa. 3 game sweep and vancouver outscored ottawa 26-8.
Basic idea was that once a lead was established 4-5 of the defensive players never left the defensive zone even if the puck did.Eventually - 1929 a rule was introduced that thre of the defensive forwards had to clear the defensive zone once the puck left the defensive zone and could not drift back. Five across would not be effective since a puck carrier breaking thru would have an unchallenged path to the net. 3-2, 2-3, 2-1-2, and similar variants would be played.

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09-10-2010, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Basic idea was that once a lead was established 4-5 of the defensive players never left the defensive zone even if the puck did.Eventually - 1929 a rule was introduced that thre of the defensive forwards had to clear the defensive zone once the puck left the defensive zone and could not drift back. Five across would not be effective since a puck carrier breaking thru would have an unchallenged path to the net. 3-2, 2-3, 2-1-2, and similar variants would be played.
a V formation was mentioned in an article i read. sort of a 2-3, i guess.

even before '29, there was some kind of rule against "loafing," which was an illegal defensive tactic. i think it was a PCHA rule, though. it was mentioned in newspaper articles i read about '23 finals between ottawa and edmonton. i think it was for F's who were really playing as d-men and not moving out of the defensive zone, but i don't know the details of the rule.


ottawa had a narrow rink, which made that type of defensive play more effective. elmer ferguson of the montreal gazette thought it was an important advantage for them.

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09-10-2010, 07:30 AM
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Standardization

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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
a V formation was mentioned in an article i read. sort of a 2-3, i guess.

even before '29, there was some kind of rule against "loafing," which was an illegal defensive tactic. i think it was a PCHA rule, though. it was mentioned in newspaper articles i read about '23 finals between ottawa and edmonton. i think it was for F's who were really playing as d-men and not moving out of the defensive zone, but i don't know the details of the rule.


ottawa had a narrow rink, which made that type of defensive play more effective. elmer ferguson of the montreal gazette thought it was an important advantage for them.
Standardization of rink size was decades away - Boston Garden, The Aud in Buffalo, Chicago Stadium all lasted into the 1990's.

Will see if I can find more info about various hockey rules and expressions. One of the problems with hockey history is that there are different local expressions and phrases. Also phrases translated from French to English and vice versa that may be far from perfect.

The V sounds like a 1-2-2 that gets wider. Idea being to protect the net/goalie by forcing play to the perimeter - hockey hasn't changed that much.

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09-11-2010, 09:06 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
milt schmidt said that art ross wanted his players to keep the puck instead of dumping it into the offensive zone.

someone once told me art ross' ideas had some influence on tarasov, but i do not know if that is true.
Tarasov was apparently influenced by Shore, whose longtime coach was Ross. I can't substantiate it any more than that, at this time.

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12-24-2010, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Tarasov was apparently influenced by Shore, whose longtime coach was Ross. I can't substantiate it any more than that, at this time.
something i found:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Burke, Montreal Gazette: 3-19-1985
When Bill White, the superb Chicago defensive defenceman was with Team Canada in the epic Canada-USSR series in '72, i asked him what magic the Soviets had used when they blew our heroes out 7-3 in game 1 here. White, who had played 5 years in Springfield, smiled and said, "no magic, they just pulled all the old Eddie Shore stuff on us."
Bep Guidolin, the youngest player in NHL history (16) who played for Shore at the end of his career, said that if anyone dumped the puck in, "he was benched immediately. Like the Russians, you held onto the puck until you found an opening. And like the Russians, you never stood still."

yesterday i read an article, i think from the '60s, which i think mentioned something about the puck going back to the blueline and greater involvement of d-men in the offense during shore's time with boston. i only have a vague memory of it, b/c i have been quickly reading through many dozens of articles recently, but i got the impression of d-men as QB's more than as rushers.

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12-24-2010, 06:36 PM
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VanIslander
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My New Haven Nighthawks team drafted him 671st in the 24th round (2nd last pick overall) of the 28-team ATD10 after he had been neglected for so long in the all-time drafts. He has since become a regular, as indeed a top-25 all-time coach:

Quote:
...he was the son of a fur trader who chose "Bruins" as Boston's nickname to reflect ..."an untamed animal displaying speed, agility, and cunning", the very definition of the fast, skilled, smart Nighthawks

Art Ross
"The dour Scot"



the winningest coach in Boston Bruins' history

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it was he who instilled the Bruins' toughness and aggressive play right from the beginning
http://books.google.ca/books?id=4Mzn...um=7&ct=result

As coach Ross won 361 games during four stints as the Bruins' coach between 1924 and 1945, only twice missing the playoffs. Four times they went to the Stanley Cup finals and won it all in 1939. Ross had a habit of stepping away from coaching and doing more general manager and president duties when times were good, going back behind the bench each time the Bruins began to struggle. He is famous for several innovations including of course pulling the goalie to ice an extra attacker.

New Haven pencilled in Ross as its number one on the coaching shortlist once the core of the Silver Seven was drafted, 4 of the 7 original Ottawa skilled bullies who regularly roughed up opposing teams physically as well as running up dominant scores during their multi-year defenses of the Stanley Cup. This is not a team to rack up PIMs per se but instead to be hungry, hard working and hardy, smart, fast and fearless. Getting the skilled rough and tumble Starshinov-Mayorov duo was a bonus to the team concept, as was the aggressive full-speed ahead energy of a young Stewart and pressing Walsh. Joliat, Ching and Tsygankov are total Art Ross types, with Hyland and Smith the only question marks in terms of matching the coach's character, though one is a consistently clutch performer and the other a retro Hart perennial scorer, so their roles are clear enough defined and compatible with the whole. Beliveau and Bourque of course are the even-keeled backbone, the everperforming role models of intelligence and commitment, skill and resilience, that leads this squad.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...s#post16372865

Quote:
ART ROSS: The son of a fur trader, Ross invented the modern hockey net, was
credited with beveling the puck to make it truer and faster
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/46716


Last edited by VanIslander: 12-24-2010 at 06:48 PM.
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Old
12-24-2010, 06:43 PM
  #14
kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
someone once told me art ross' ideas had some influence on tarasov, but i do not know if that is true.
Reading Tarasov's book (Russian hockey secrets) he's very adamant that he takes a lot of his coaching influence from the Swedish style - tactics over individual play, fluid, continuous transition game, no overt physical element, not much individualism, no power attacks. At the very least he respects it a great deal more than he does Canadian styles.

Though I would wager any omission of giving tribute to Canadian styles may be an issue of pride.

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