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Kelowna Rockets...everything thast wrong with Hockey?

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05-23-2004, 12:14 PM
  #1
LaLaLaprise
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Kelowna Rockets...everything thats wrong with Hockey?

I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.

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05-23-2004, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.
Maybe you can turn what you said the other way around by saying.

The way the WHL develop the players is the reason why NHL team scout love the WHL & why they are suspicious about the Q players making it to the NHL.

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05-23-2004, 12:32 PM
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Last year the Kelowna Rockets did not play the trap. They had a high powered offense that could score almost at will with Jesse Shultz, Kyle McLeod and others. When these players had to leave because of their age Kelowna was left with out any pure offensive players. They had to adapt a defensive system in order to win.

It's the same in the NHL. Minnesota plays the trap because they have no offense other than Gaborik. High scoring teams like Colorado don't need to play the trap.

I don't think its that players are being tought the trap in junior thats the problem. It goes back to the argument that the NHL is diluted with less talented players because of the amount of teams. There are too many roster spots and not enough "great" players to fill them. So when teams like Minnesota don't have any offensive players they are forced to play the trap in order to win.

And the reason I think NHL scouts like the WHL is because it is more physical. Not to say that the other leagues aren't but the WHL is the most.

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05-23-2004, 12:59 PM
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Nothing against the OHL or WHL.

But man is the QMJHL league fun to watch....The bashing is non sense...the Q is my favroite CHL league to watch. But I probally would feal safer drafting a player out of the WHL.

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05-23-2004, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.
How does the style played in a junior league affect the way the NHL is played? If anything, everything that is wrong with the NHL is being trickled down into the junior leagues.

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05-23-2004, 05:39 PM
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I agree. WHL hockey makes my eyes bleed, although the Giants play a bit more offensive hockey than most.

I pray for no lockout.

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05-23-2004, 05:51 PM
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And now they're Memorial Cup Champions.

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05-23-2004, 05:52 PM
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Another defensive game today.

Kelowna wins 2-1.

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05-23-2004, 06:16 PM
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Dubbya

Medicine Hat was a better team to watch than Kelowna....but Kelowna had the hot goalie and man I thought he was hot. Too bad about the game winner....not a great goal but certainly a deciding one. The Gatineau team moved the puck better and despite being smaller were up to the challenge of the physical play....they were better with the puck and better hands infront of the net than the Rockets..size was not a deciding factor in the game....I really enjoyed the game and Gatineau plays an exciting game to watch....that little guy Daoust he was great. Not big but not only could he handle the bigger guys but he had the hands and the vision....no one else on the rockets could come close.

Maybe Hockey Canada ought to rethink their rosters for national teams and add a few more of these fast, skilled players from the east....just a thought!!!!!!!!!

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05-23-2004, 06:20 PM
  #10
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Kelly Guard is a great goalie, don't get me wrong.. but how was he on fire? He was barely menaced, Gatineau couldn't get a play going.
It pisses me off when I see teams like Kelowna winning it all with strategies that are basically not only not letting the other team play, but not playing either, if you see what I mean.

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05-23-2004, 06:27 PM
  #11
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I am surprised at the lack of peopel bashing me lol

I was expecting people to not agree.


So i guess we all agree defensive hockey sucks. But it cant be fixed overnight until a few Teams decide to play fire wagon hockey and draft based on skill alone.

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05-23-2004, 06:48 PM
  #12
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Personally, I love the diversity of the CHL. I love that there are different teams. Of course, it's a bit unfortunate that the WHL is very focused in certain areas while the Q is very focused in others.

I do not think there is anything wrong with the trap, or with open-ended hockey. You pick the best strategy for your team, taking into account the environment you play in (like the inclinations of referees and your opponents).

I dig players coming out of all three (OHL, WHL, Q). The CHL is a damn good league and right now, I am very satisfied with it. Wish I had seen many more games this year.

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05-23-2004, 07:15 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.
Not wanting to get into any technical debates on whether it just shifts the trap around or inspires defensive teams to be even more defensive, but: I kept wishing today that 2-line passes over centre were allowed in the CHL. I don't think there are so many teams, even in the WHL that are *that* stifling. Look at Medicine Hat. Pretty wide open there, and they were champs. Kamloops in their heyday, that was pretty wide open WHL hockey. Few junior teams have the coaching and discipline to really stick flawlessly to a style like Kelowna, and I think removing the red line for offsides would really crack things open even more in junior. We do need to inspire more creativity and put a greater emphasis on skills development with our kids. It's not entirely coincidental that a glance at the top-20 or so NHL scorers shows a certain paucity of Canadian names. Of course, this is an ages old and pages long debate, so I better stop here.

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05-23-2004, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
And now they're Memorial Cup Champions.
Exactly. Its just going to show that you can't win the championships in hockey with a defense first game. Kelowna had dominated all year last year, with a top end offense, they got shut down and lost. This year they came in, played defense first and won.

Just goes to show, that defense wins.

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05-23-2004, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazzy-19
Last year the Kelowna Rockets did not play the trap. They had a high powered offense that could score almost at will with Jesse Shultz, Kyle McLeod and others. When these players had to leave because of their age Kelowna was left with out any pure offensive players. They had to adapt a defensive system in order to win.

It's the same in the NHL. Minnesota plays the trap because they have no offense other than Gaborik. High scoring teams like Colorado don't need to play the trap.

I don't think its that players are being tought the trap in junior thats the problem. It goes back to the argument that the NHL is diluted with less talented players because of the amount of teams. There are too many roster spots and not enough "great" players to fill them. So when teams like Minnesota don't have any offensive players they are forced to play the trap in order to win.

And the reason I think NHL scouts like the WHL is because it is more physical. Not to say that the other leagues aren't but the WHL is the most.
Ahemm.... New Jersey ?

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05-23-2004, 08:18 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.

It is all the Devils' fault with their trapping.

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05-23-2004, 09:12 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
It is all the Devils' fault with their trapping.
Probably. I dont really "blame" anyone. Coaches have to do whatever it takes to win and right now that is to play defense 59 minutes of the game.

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05-24-2004, 06:21 AM
  #18
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3 goals against in 4 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahan
Kelly Guard is a great goalie, don't get me wrong.. but how was he on fire? He was barely menaced, Gatineau couldn't get a play going.
It pisses me off when I see teams like Kelowna winning it all with strategies that are basically not only not letting the other team play, but not playing either, if you see what I mean.

3 GA in 4 games at the top tournament in Major Junior that's how!!!!!! I agree with you that the win wasn't great hockey.....I still don't think they would have even been in the final without Guard.

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05-24-2004, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeofthetiger
3 GA in 4 games at the top tournament in Major Junior that's how!!!!!! I agree with you that the win wasn't great hockey.....I still don't think they would have even been in the final without Guard.
I do.

Not to discount how good of a goaltender Kelly Guard is, but Kelowna does not rely on him. They play spectacular team defence.

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05-24-2004, 10:16 AM
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So, becasue Kelowna plays the trap exclusivly, that means the rest of the WHL does as well??

Generalization at its best.

The WHL is known for physical, hard hitting aggresive hockey. Kelowna is known for the trap, trap, trap. Guard is an OK goalie, but not a good goalie in my books. Saw him lose more games for his team than I than I have seen him steal.

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05-24-2004, 10:35 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
I do.

Not to discount how good of a goaltender Kelly Guard is, but Kelowna does not rely on him. They play spectacular team defence.
*Ahem* Craig Hillier *Ahem*

Not saying Guard will have the same carrer as Hillier but they both had amazing Junior teams in front of them which made them look extremely good.

That being said Guard doesnt have the pressure of Hillier because he went undrafted and Hillier was a 1st rd pick.

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05-24-2004, 10:36 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks
So, becasue Kelowna plays the trap exclusivly, that means the rest of the WHL does as well??

Generalization at its best.

The WHL is known for physical, hard hitting aggresive hockey. Kelowna is known for the trap, trap, trap. Guard is an OK goalie, but not a good goalie in my books. Saw him lose more games for his team than I than I have seen him steal.
Kind of a Generalizition to call the Q wide open too as Peter Loubardious kept doing.

We have trap coaches in the Q too but no one actually knows that. They all think we play 5 forward fire wagon hockey.

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05-24-2004, 10:48 AM
  #23
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Sure the Q is more wide open than the WHL and the OHL, but if you look at the NHL it isn't much different.

The East plays more of a tight checking and low scoring trap style to the faster skating and more offensvie West style.

Its been like that since before the trap.

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05-24-2004, 11:40 AM
  #24
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
It's not entirely coincidental that a glance at the top-20 or so NHL scorers shows a certain paucity of Canadian names. Of course, this is an ages old and pages long debate, so I better stop here.
I do not think a glance at the top scorers in the NHL will give you much indication on the current state of the CHL vs other developmental leagues around the world. Some of the players in the top 20 scorers have almost two decades of NHL hockey behind them. Mark Recchi has something like 16-17 seasons. Looking at him will hardly indicate what is wrong or right about the WHL today.

Then you have to account some of those players really blossomed very late, not in developmental leagues but in pro leagues. Some did in farm leagues and some did it in different developmental leagues (I think Hossa is the only example in the top 20, having played one year only in the WHL and previously in Slovakia).

A glance at the top 20 scorers this year reveals that 50% come from the CHL. How much would be enough, I ask you? 90%? If we add the two US College players, we're up to 12/20 North American products.

Here it is:

RW Martin St. Louis, US College
LW Ilya Kovalchuk, RUSIA
C Joe Sakic, WHL
LW Markus Naslund, Sweden
RW Marian Hossa, Slovakia/WHL
C Patrik Elias, Czech Republic
RW Daniel Alfredsson, Sweden
LW Cory Stillman, OHL
C Robert Lang, Czech Republic
C Brad Richards, QMJHL
LW Alex Tanguay, QMJHL
C Mats Sundin, Sweden
RW Mark Recchi, WHL
RW Milan Hejduk, Czech Republic
RW Jaromir Jagr, Czech Republic
RW Steve Sullivan, OHL
RW Jarome Iginla, WHL
C Joe Thornton, OHL
LW Keith Tkachuk, US College
C Scott Gomez, WHL

Furthermore, I'm not sure if offensive performance by the top 20 is the be-all, end-all method to evaluate developmental league performances. I'll take plenty of guys not in the top 20 before Cory Stillman and live very well with the decision.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the CHL. This is a pure myth. It's still a strong league, and it will continue to produce nice NHLers. We can expect a drop in representation if international hockey continues its breakthrough. There is nothing wrong with that, we're all winners when quality overall improves.

Our players do, on average, play a slightly different style. Each league has its "specialties" but plenty of players not cut from the same mold. Furthermore, over the years "specialties" will change. Leagues will adapt, evolve. I think the 90s was the last decade where we will see such a stranglehold on goaltending by the Q. There have been vast improvements all over the world in that respect.

Furthermore, I doubt much of this has to do with the red line. I'd guess the fact they do a couple more drills, less games and at least until recently less of a NHL-style grinding game is more at the heart of the differences. Note that I call these *differences* as opposed to saying one is better than the other.

I truly believe that there is no one perfect way to develop prospects, but there are optimal ways depending on the guy. There are plenty of pitfalls for the European path of development (also a generalization, no two Euro country is alike), just like there are in every leagues, like the CHL.

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05-24-2004, 12:46 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers with this post as I think Kelowna is a very strong team. But when you look at the way the NHL is and all the grinders who stiffle offensive creativity and the trap and all that none sense and than look at the way players aged 16-20 are learning to play the game in Junior it is really no surprise.

People can bash the QMJHL all they want but everything wrong with the NHL is how the WHL likes to develop their players.

Maybe, just maybe if the NHL was more like the QMJHL more people would actually watch, because god forbid there be any odd men rushes, or nice dekes, or nice passing plays.

I am guessing that your television didnt get the Tigers games on tv throughout the memorial cup? because there are plenty of teams in the whl that play offence first defence second. However there is a reason the whl produces the most winning teams and the best defencemen in the nhl.

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