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Edmonton Oiler Revenues: An Analysis

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Old
09-11-2010, 03:50 PM
  #26
MarkMM
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Interesting. Couple of points.

You've obviously erred on the side of caution with respect to a number of the calculations & projections, which for argument sake is always prudent.

I do however think some of these numbers are short, which taken in totality actually beefs up Edmontons bottom line by at least $10M+.

The other point?; lumping Vancouver in with Montreal/Toronto. IMO their are 3 levels;

1) Toronto/Montreal
2) Vancouver/Calgary
3) Edmonton/Ottawa



Good point, though I'd go a step further and make an alteration.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/...ions_Rank.html

Based on this, Toronto is really in a league of it's own, as is Montreal.

Vancouver is $39 million ahead of Calgary which is actually closer to Edmonton than it is to Vancouver, and Ottawa is darn near close to Calgary.

1.) Toronto
2.) Montreal
3.) Vancouver
4.) Calgary and Ottawa
5.) Edmonton

They really are that different, IMO.

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09-11-2010, 06:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
They also own an AHL franchise (which has been dormant since 05-06 and is re-starting this season).

But we're looking at NHL Hockey Related Revenue (not the parent company/ies' bottom line).

But the original article doesn't state NHL revenues.
Just that the Oilers are $120m a year buisness.
Which means the revenue garnered by the Oilkings is more then likely included in that figure.
It's the same buisness model Winnipeg want's to follow if they get a NHL team back.
The WHL team is cheap to run and in Edmonton's case completely sold out every night.

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09-11-2010, 06:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post

Good point, though I'd go a step further and make an alteration.

1.) Toronto
2.) Montreal
3.) Vancouver
4.) Calgary and Ottawa
5.) Edmonton
I'll go along with that. Didnt realize Calgary was lagging so far behind Vancouver.

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09-11-2010, 07:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Thanks kdb. I didn't know about that little gem- so if the Oil made 320 million dollars in Merch sales, 10 (of the of the 20 over) would go to Rev Sharing? Interesting, so theoretically having massive merch sales for the Oil would go towards funding for one of revenue sharing teams(aka the competition)-wow.
No. The $300M threshold is for League wide Centrally Generated League Revenues (not any team revenues) - which includes Canadian (CBC, etc) and US (Versus, NBC) national broadcast deals, merchandise licensing (thru NHL Enterprises), and other revenues. If those League Revenues exceed $300M, that 50% of that excess will be used to fund Revenue Sharing. As far as I know, those League Revenues do not yet exceed that threshold and are not currently funding Revenue Sharing.

I can guarantee that the Oilers do not have $320M in merchandising revenues - since this thread is basically arguing that their total revenues are ~$93M - as opposed to the $120M claimed by some team official (or the $83M number from Forbes).


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09-12-2010, 07:19 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It would help if you showed how you came up with your own numbers.

My calculations were based on the 2008-2009 season and used the Coyotes numbers to fill in some missing revenue streams. The Coyotes reported income differently so I will try to translate using GC's categories.

Admissions: My number here was lower primarily because of the difference in the $CDN during that season. The dollar dropped 13% from the time the $1.2M per game number was released. The Oilers did raise ticket prices by 5% so the net is a drop of about .865%. That brought the total to $48.2M. (Reduction of $4.6M).

Now for the 2009-2010 year the Oilers agian raised prices about 5% and the dollar rebounded. However, there is a slight negative mitigating factor in that the way the Oilers sell out all their games is through a half-price-singles deal that is available on game day. My guess is that the numbers of these tickets has increased enough to reduce reveunes by about 2% or so. This means that everything considered I would peg the 2009-2010 number at about $53M which is pretty much where GC has it.

TV:

This was a tough one for me.

My estimate was $7-8M for local broadcasting.

The Oilers have a legacy deal on the radio side which I expect they can do much better with now that there is a serious alternative in town (Team 1260).

On the local TV revenue, I think we sometimes forget that the national deals tie up 30 games per year for a team like the Oilers. This leaves only 52 games for local consumption.

The Oilers had 16 games on PPV. Estimated audience for these peaked at about 40K I believe, though the number for the last half of last year would be less I am sure. I guessed about 500 commercial establishments paying $3200 per year, of which I attributed about $2800 to the Oilers with the rest to the carrier. I used 10,000 households at $12.95--$10 to the Oilers for a total of about $3M.

I added $4M for the remaining games shown primarily on Sportsnet West. I don't believe this number was an underestimate of the previous contract because local rights had always been a bit of a dog's breakfast in Edmonton.

Going forward, things look better as the Oilers and Flames have signed a reportedly much better deal with Sportsnet. Unfortunately terms of that deal have not been released.

(Savings: $2M)


Advertising: This was not a specific category in the Coyote filings. I must say I really have no idea here. But the Oilers likely have a fair number of legacy deals from the EIG days that I expect will be more lucrative going forward. That said I am happy to accept GC's number.

Food and Beverage I estimated this at $1.5M which was the number the Coyotes listed for concessions and merchandise!

I took a look at the facilities in the RBC arena:

http://www.rbccenter.com/default.asp...=Food_Beverage

They are substantially better than those of Rexall, and it is not even close. Rexall is a disaster as far as retail is concerned. This is one of the reasons the Oilers cite in needing a new arena.

What is also true, at least from my experience, is that season ticket holders are not the biggest spenders on in-arena items. And the Oilers fan base is dominated by STH's. (Savings of $1.5M)

Parking: These numbers are definitely inflated. Parking at Rexall is $10 not $20. Edmontonians are tough. There is lots of free parking around the arena so few people want to pay to park. Moreover, the LRT gives another practical option for those that want to park and ride. Parking is also part of the suite rental and if there is another event on the Northlands grounds things get complicated. So my guess is that at $500K you are being generous. (Again, this number would likley rise substantially with a downtown arena.)
(Saving of $500K)

Naming Rights: I agreed with GC on this one and put $0 because Rexall is essentially the same beast. But if you want to add to the revenues by including this $5M is probably much too high. Rexall signed a 10 year deal with EIG a few years back replacing the $1.2M Sky Reach deal when Sky Reach got into some financial trouble. I think it was as much a favour to the team as it was a business transaction so I doubt the deal was for much more than the $1.2M Sky Reach paid.

Suite Sales:

I missed this when I first looked at the numbers. This is the one place where I think the number is a fair bit bigger. Rexall actually has 67 luxury "boxs". the number GC quotes was before a recent expansion. The larger suitess are $10K$ per game on a game by game basis and the smaller ones are $5K. But these "retail" prices are misleading as the Oilers almost surely give a subsatntial discount for full season rentals. (STH receive a 40%+ discount off the retain price of their seats.)

I put the Suites number at $14M which id $4.8M higher than GC.

Merchandising:

Carolina lists the number at $700-800K. Phoenix list the number at $1.5M combined with concessions. I would say that doubling the number is actually being generous.

I added $1.2M in my calculations. Again, two factors act against this number. The first is that retail space is pretty tough to come by at Rexall. Even if you want to buy something you may have to miss part of a period to do so. The Oiler do have two other retail outlets, but they are very small stores, and have to compete for business with 200,000 other stores that sell the same stuff.

The second thing that keeps this number down is that STH, especially those that have been around for a long time are not the best on-site retail customers. I've got a fair bit of Oiler stuff, but in over a decade as a STH I would bet I spent less than $100 at an Oiler owned store. There was no way I would miss part of the game or a chance to visit with my friends to stand in line when I knew very well that I could get pretty much anything they carried cheaper and with less hassles somewhere else.

My guess is that teams with lots of walk-up fans actually have an advantage on the retail side as they tend to treat the game as more of a special occasion and are more likely to open their wallets.
(Savings: 200K).


The net savings for me is $4M bringing the total to $89.5 if I use GC's base. The difference between this and the $83-88M number comes from 1) lower suite revenues used in the $83M estimate given much lower previous pricing and 2) the advertising money, which was not a specific category inthe Coyotes filing.


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09-12-2010, 10:17 AM
  #31
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Well said, fourier. I want to underscore something that you have done which I tried to point out in my original post but which I may not have sufficiently emphasized. That thing is this:

In putting together the original guesstimate, I tried in all respects to err on the high side. While it may be theoretically possible that those high-side estimates were still too low in every single instance, to me the more likely outcome is that some may be high, some may be too low and some may be so close as to be considered bang on. In such a case, the differences will balance themselves out so that the final "real" number is not materially different. Perhaps that is giving me too much credit as an estimator; others can judge my qualifications in that regard.

As per your estimate post, which is the kind of post I was looking for, with actual alternative numbers (instead of "too high" or "too low" comments) and stated rationales/assumptions, some of your numbers are higher and some are lower. I would expect that.

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09-12-2010, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Well said, fourier. I want to underscore something that you have done which I tried to point out in my original post but which I may not have sufficiently emphasized. That thing is this:

In putting together the original guesstimate, I tried in all respects to err on the high side. While it may be theoretically possible that those high-side estimates were still too low in every single instance, to me the more likely outcome is that some may be high, some may be too low and some may be so close as to be considered bang on. In such a case, the differences will balance themselves out so that the final "real" number is not materially different. Perhaps that is giving me too much credit as an estimator; others can judge my qualifications in that regard.

As per your estimate post, which is the kind of post I was looking for, with actual alternative numbers (instead of "too high" or "too low" comments) and stated rationales/assumptions, some of your numbers are higher and some are lower. I would expect that.
1. I'm working on it.

2. I had to prod him as well.

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09-12-2010, 10:37 AM
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1. I'm working on it.

2. I had to prod him as well.
1. I await with bated breath.

2. Another gold star for you, then. That's two now.

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09-12-2010, 10:49 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post

In putting together the original guesstimate, I tried in all respects to err on the high side. As per your estimate post, which is the kind of post I was looking for, with actual alternative numbers (instead of "too high" or "too low" comments) and stated rationales/assumptions, some of your numbers are higher and some are lower. I would expect that.
Well, you see, thats what I do all the time, usually through the bottom of a glass, which serves to magnify the numbers at hand and makes me feel better about things in general.

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09-12-2010, 12:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
1. I'm working on it.

2. I had to prod him as well.
Hey... You have no idea how much effort it takes for me to do all that arithmetic. My little brain is use to dealing with only 0, 1, x, y, alpha and beta. Not to mention that if you were the world's third worst typist, as I most certainly am, it would take a while for you to pound out that much spam.

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09-12-2010, 02:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
ADMISSIONS

Last official numbers (as per the TO Star) put EDM at $1.2M per game. The exchange rate for 2007-08 was higher (by ~4 cents) than this past year, but I assume that some ticket price increases since then have offset that. I will use the $1.2M without exchange rate offset. My initial number did not capture pre-season ticket sales, so I have bumped it up to (again, conservatively) assume the same revenues for pre-season games (a dubious proposition, but whatever). It is also unclear whether pre-season seats are included in season ticket plans, which would dramatically reduce incremental revenue.

Admissions revenue = $1.2M x 44 = $52.8M
Per Bank of Canada, CAD value in USD (1 Jul 07 - 30 Jun 08):
2008: 0.99
2009: 0.86
2010: 0.95

Base is USD $1.2m/gm for 07/08 season, thus in CAD: $1.212m
(we'll say it's the same for this exercise then)

Assuming no price increase, we're roughly between $1.04-1.14m for the next two years. I think that's not realistic though, so let's say 5-10%, I'll use 7% to make my life easy (although I'm checking around to get a real figure):

2009:
CA$1.28m (US$1.1m)

2010:
CA$1.37m (US$1.3m)
Admissions revenue $1.3m x 44 = $57.3m


Quote:
ADVERTISING

This is a tough one, with little guidance. I would propose to use the suddenly jacked-up CAR number, adjusted upward. I will take $6.1M, adjust it upward by 15% and round it off to $7M.

Advertising Revenue = $7M.
Like I said earlier, I can't find any reason at all to use Carolina figures as a comparable for Edmonton. Edmonton's viewership average is ~200k per game; and the waiting list for season tickets is 2+ yrs long; with higher than avg ticket prices (Edmonton and Ottawa are comparable, but at the top end of the NHL overall, after TO, Mtrl, Van, Cal, & NYR.)

We should also not overlook the fact that Edmonton has one of the smallest arenas, but is in the top six for gate receipts!

I have no basis whatsoever for a number, but I do believe it would far higher than Carolina's. 1.5-2x might actually be a conservative figure.

Advertising Revenue = $10M?


Quote:
NHL REVENUE SHARING

We have good figures for this, courtesy of the PHO bankruptcy. The central revenue sharing amount is just shy of $9M. We will not assume any revenue sharing received by EDM.

NHL Central Revenue Distribution = $9M.
http://media.fans.mapleleafs.nhl.com...71/122856.html
Quote:
According to information compiled by The Globe and Mail from various sources, the six Canadian NHL franchises contributed more than $40-million (all figures U.S.) to their fellow owners last season, and about $50-million when playoff revenues are taken into account.
...
For the 2007-08 regular season, the Canadiens spent $11.5-million on 'player compensation cost redistribution,' the somewhat unwieldy term used in the CBA. The Vancouver Canucks paid out $10-million, the Calgary Flames roughly $6-million and the Ottawa Senators $1-million. The Edmonton Oilers contributed $800,000, although team officials declined to discuss specifics.
Thus no matter what figure we agree on, we have to put Edmonton in the top ten in 2007-08.If the price increases didn't offset the CAD decrease, chances are they remained in the top ten, but possibly slipped a notch or two.


Central Revenue Distribution = $9M

Quote:
TELEVISION

This figure is for local television, as opposed to the HNIC and other national deals which are captured in the immediately preceding amounts above. This is a tough one. Using the $20M received by MTL from RDS based on 82 games + a playoff schedule and based on 710k+ viewers (hgher now), and factoring in fewer EDM games, no playoff games (they would be already given to CBC/TSN anyway) and about a quarter of the audience, you could make an argument for perhaps a third of the MTL portion of the RDS contract at best. Again, though, I will err on the high side and give them $10M (half of MTL TV revenues, acknowledged to be well among the higher team local TV revenues).

Television Revenue = $10M.
I think this errs on the low side.

http://www.thesportmarket.biz/charts.htm

Quote:
TOP TEN Rank Club Regional rights holder Average audience
Per game broadcast

1 Montreal Canadiens RDS* 688,000*
2 Toronto Maple Leafs Rogers Sportsnet Ontario 656,400
3
Vancouver Canucks Rogers Sportsnet Pacific 398,500
4 Calgary Flames Rogers Sportsnet West 221,300
5
Pittsburgh Penguins FSN Pittsburgh 214,100
6
Chicago Blackhawks Comcast Sportsnet / WGN-TV 9 196,800
7
Detroit Red Wings FSN Detroit 186,600
8 Edmonton Oilers Rogers Sportsnet West 181,400
9
Ottawa Senators Rogers Sportsnet Ontario 153,400
10
New York Rangers MSG Network 152,200
If all they're getting is $10m, then they're getting ripped off.

How about $15m, conservatively speaking?

Television Revenue = $15M


Quote:
FOOD & BEVERAGE

This figure is always much lower than people think. I am assuming that the Oilers get a piece of the concessions bought during hockey games (it may not be the case, but I will err on the high side). Concessions are done via a concession agreement (usually a master agreement) to a third party or parties, in return for a percentage of sales (often with a minimum annual guarantee, or “MAG”). THe CAR figures provide a decent proxy, if adjusted upwards for 15% or so greater attendance for EDM. Let’s bump that up by 20%, just to err on the safe side.

Food & Beverage Revenue = $3M
I think you have to make this $5-6m. Higher attendance, and that cold weather makes people eat and drink more.

Besides, lurking on the Oilers board and the gripes about beer and food prices makes me think they're doing far better.

Food & Beverage Revenue = $4-5M

Quote:
PARKING

I was initially unaware of any parking revenue to which the Oilers were entitled, since they do not control the building or (to the best of my knowledge) own any surrounding lots. Tyler subsequently suggested that they did, and a review of the Northlands annual report confirmed that they get parking revenue as part of their very sweet lease (a public subsidy, don't you know!!).

There are 1100 spots (http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/Edmo...lers/index.htm). I note from the Oilers website that one lot is dedicated for season ticket holders. Sometimes, parking is included in the season ticket or suite price. However, in the ongoing effort to err on the high side, I will not discount for that.

1100 x 44 (w/3 preseason games) x $20 = $968,000. Round it up to $1M.

Parking Revenue = $1M
No idea. I'll accept your $1M.


Quote:
NAMING RIGHTS

The Oilers do not control the arena. This is in fact a cost line item for Katz, rather than a revenue item. Tyler insisted that EDM gets the revenue for this. Even assuming this were true (and the Northlands website was not helpful on this), this is still a payment from a Katz wholly-owned sister company (Rexall). While I was inclined to allow a huge overestimate of $5M for this, I think this was overly generous, since it is really nothing more than a payment from a wholly-owned subsidiary to the team.

Naming Rights Revenue = $0
Sorry, but if Katz pays them, it will count as HRR, and if it counts for escrow/linkage purposes, we have to count it as Oilers income.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sport...e=stadiumnames

Ottawa and Calgary get roughly $1m per the above, and most of these deals seem to range $1-2m/yr.

Also:
Quote:
NAMING RIGHTS: Rexall signed a 10-year deal in 2003 for an undisclosed amount for both the naming rights and the right to be the team's exclusive health care provider. Terms of the deal were not disclosed but the previous deal was worth $1.2 M in Canadian dollars.
http://law.marquette.edu/cgi-bin/sit...30&pageID=2820

Naming Rights Revenue = $1.5-2M


Quote:
SUITE SALES

Edmonton has 39 suites and 16 “skyboxes”. I do not know the prices, but I will extrapolate from the per-game costs, which I believe are $5k per game for suites. Assuming a modest discount for committing to an entire season, I have assumed $175K per suite and $150K per skybox. This is ~$6.8M for suites and $2.4M for skyboxes. Note that this represents a huge increase over CAR suite revenue.
Suites Revenue = $14M (Fourier)


Quote:
MERCHANDISING

This revenue source is far less than people think. THe NHL and its member clubs are licensors, and are paid as such. I am not aware of any manufacturing plants owned or operated by the NHL or the Oilers.

While CAR reported only ~$700-800k in merchandising on attendance that was comparable to EDM, I want to err on the high side. I will accordingly double the CAR figure, despite not having any reason for such a per-capita difference between markets. I will also not make any exchange rate adjustment.

Merchandising Revenue = $1.5M
I can argue up or down by a few hundred thousand, but it won't drastically affect the figures. We can use your number.

Merchandising Revenue = $1.5M

To sum up:

Tickets $57.3 M
Advertising $ 10 M
Central Revenue $ 9.0 M
Television $15.0 M
Food & Beverage $ 4-5.0 M
Parking $ 1.0 M
Naming Rights $ 1.5-2 M
Suite Sales $ 14 M
Merchandising $ 1.5 M
Ticketmaster $ 0.0 M
Other $ 0.0 M

TOTAL $113.3 - 114.8 M



Quote:
Where does that put EDM?
Actually, even I find this shocking. If I shave some fat off the TV and suite numbers, we're still very close to $100-110M.

If the Oilers indeed are paying into revenue sharing (and last year's CAD value might support that thesis), then their HRR seems to need to be in the >$100m range.



Hmmm.

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09-12-2010, 06:02 PM
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GSC?. To what end this thread?. Whats' the point?.

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09-12-2010, 06:15 PM
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GSC?. To what end this thread?. Whats' the point?.

He got himself in trouble on an Oilers blog by saying that Edmonton and Carolina weren't very far apart in revenues. *Unfortunately, that Carolina HRR release came right after he made that statement.*

It was too good of an analysis to just waste on the blogger elite?

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09-12-2010, 07:01 PM
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It was too good of an analysis to just waste on the blogger elite?
Whats' the point Fugu?. Where does it lead?. Edmonton, Carolina, Nashville, they all scream poverty when it serves a purpose. Purpose is what its' all about. Katz is a whiner. I dont listen. Who does?. If so why?. He's a Big Boy. Nihilistic tendencies aside. What is end-game?. And tell ya what. If thats "blogger elite"?. Houston, we have a problem.


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09-12-2010, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Whats' the point Fugu?. Where does it lead?. Edmonton, Carolina, Nashville, they all scream poverty when it serves a purpose. Purpose is what its' all about. Katz is a whiner. I dont listen. Who does?. If so why?. He's a Big Boy. Nihilistic tendencies aside. What is end-game?. And tell ya what. If thats "blogger elite"?. Houston, we have a problem.

You don't like MC79Hockey? He lets some elite Nucks blogger hang out there, a Leaflander or two, and even Mirtle-san joins in on occasion.

It's too bad Tom Benjamin doesn't blog much any longer. That's how I got through the lockout.

One purpose is that if they all scream poverty, you can at least look at it some relative sense, all being equal but some are more equal than others.


(Note how I got relativity in there along with some nihilistic literary reference...)


There is no end game. It's the journey.

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09-12-2010, 07:20 PM
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There is no end game. It's the journey.
Aye, tis' that my friend. However. having made the odd DETOUR, I speak from experience.

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09-13-2010, 07:27 AM
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To Fugu,

I see the only time you believed my analysis was when the number was higher than GC's. Nice to know I still have some credibility.

On food and beverages:

Here is a quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
THIS is one of the many reasons I want them nowhere near the new arena.

Going to the arena in NC was a revelation for food and fan service availability. There's absolutely no excuse for not having that here.

Imagine a rink with say, a Harvey's, a Fat Franks, Chinese food, and then a wide wide assortment of rink/stadium grub...this is the kind of thing they have in other professional sports arenas.
from the following thread that pretty much confirms what I said about the concessions at Rexall and provides a direct comparison with the Canes.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ht=concessions

They have not changed all that much since my days as a STH. And I can tell you that once the game started most of the people I knew avoided them like the plague.

Modern arenas tend to have nice places you can go before the game, or after, where you can sut down and enjoy a nice meal or a drink. Rexall not so much!!!

During the game, the concourse is so crowded that you can hardly move even with many people still in their seats. The booths themselves tend to be very inefficient, so you will be in line for quite some time. They are also very strict on allowing seating when the play is on, so if you want to go to the concession you had better be prepared to miss a good chunk of the game.
On TV:

I am sorry to say but your numbers seems way off to me.

The Leafs have their own station and it has been reported that their TV revenues are about $41M. We don't even know if this includes the national money either. Montreal gets $20M with all of Quebec at its disposal. Moreover, this is an absolute prime product for RDS.

The Sportsnet regional broadcasts were in comparison pretty small potatoes, I am sure. I would be shocked if the deal that these teams had was anywhere nearly proportional to the Canadiens for example. This might be a little different now that Sportsnet is launching its national channel. But I would still be surprised if my number of $8M was not on the high side.


I also doubt that the Oilers paid into revenue sharing the last couple of years. They were likely on the cusp back then but have not really had the best of it since the 2007-2008 season. The fall in the CDN hit them hard, but there has also been an upswing from some other clubs. I would say they are certainly behind:

Toronto, NYR, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, Detroit, Boston and Philly. Chicago is now ahead I am sure.

So they would be battling with Ottawa and a host of teams like SJ, Minnesota, LA and NJD being right their in the mix. Pittsburgh will likely also have been close, but will certainly jump past the Oilers this year with the new building.

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09-13-2010, 10:10 AM
  #43
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Does the advertising include sponsorship?

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09-13-2010, 10:12 AM
  #44
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@Fourier.

Your description of the food situation sounds identical to Joe Louis arena! Long lines, a single concourse (you should see the lines for the women's bathroom), and such delicacies as: Lil Caesar's Pizza (of course), Cheli's Chili, the generic burger/hotdog/sub concessions, plus the nacho carts in the middle of the concourse. Hmmm. There is the Olympia Room, but it's only for STH's + reservations.

Okay, so here are my figures, and I'll highlight in red the ones where you show your disdain:


To sum up:

Tickets $57.3 M
Advertising $ 10 M
Central Revenue $ 9.0 M
Television $ 15.0 M (now $ 8 M per Fourier)
Food & Beverage $ 4-5.0 M (now $ 2 M)
Parking $ 1.0 M
Naming Rights $ 1.5-2 M
Suite Sales $ 14 M
Merchandising $ 1.5 M
Ticketmaster $ 0.0 M
Other $ 0.0 M

TOTAL $ 104.3 - 104.8 M


As for paying into the revenue transfer plan, I believe that they were potentially in a similar position to 2007-08, but moreover the US teams probably took a bigger hit due to the economic crash from which the country has yet to recover.

Per Bank of Canada, CAD value in USD (1 Jul 07 - 30 Jun 08):
2008: 0.99
2009: 0.86
2010: 0.95

There's a ~4 per cent difference in CAD value, used for translation purposes, between 2008 and 2010-- which "should" have been more than offset by price increases since 2007-08.

Forbes has the 2009 revenue estimate for the Oilers at $83M. If I use the 0.86 rate to convert back to CAD, I end up with CA $96.5M. If the CAD had been at par, that would have put the Oilers in the top ten of that list. So, again, factoring in the 9% gain in currency against the US$, and potential price hikes, I do feel comfortable with a figure around the $100-105 M mark.

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09-13-2010, 10:43 AM
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Sorry to take this slightly off-topic, but I have a question about merchandise (which was discussed earlier here):

What happens to the money made from selling defunct teams' merchandise? Is all the revenue from sales of Jets, Nordiques and Whalers gear (and I guess to a lesser extent, North Stars) being spread out among the current NHL teams?

I'm in Winnipeg, and the amount of Jets gear that still gets bought and sold on a regular basis is obscene. I can honestly say (and I think this is accurate for a lot of people in this city) that I don't recall going a single day (I'm almost 28 years old, so we're talking during the Jets' tenure here as well as many years after) without seeing at least one person wearing some kind of Jets merch. Jerseys, caps, toques, whatever.

Where does that money go? Obviously the Jets/Nords/Whalers/etc. don't exist as teams anymore, so they're not picking up a percentage of it. I'm assuming it goes straight to the NHL, which, as a non-profit, shares it between the current teams.

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09-13-2010, 11:29 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Sorry to take this slightly off-topic, but I have a question about merchandise (which was discussed earlier here):

What happens to the money made from selling defunct teams' merchandise? Is all the revenue from sales of Jets, Nordiques and Whalers gear (and I guess to a lesser extent, North Stars) being spread out among the current NHL teams?

I'm in Winnipeg, and the amount of Jets gear that still gets bought and sold on a regular basis is obscene. I can honestly say (and I think this is accurate for a lot of people in this city) that I don't recall going a single day (I'm almost 28 years old, so we're talking during the Jets' tenure here as well as many years after) without seeing at least one person wearing some kind of Jets merch. Jerseys, caps, toques, whatever.

Where does that money go? Obviously the Jets/Nords/Whalers/etc. don't exist as teams anymore, so they're not picking up a percentage of it. I'm assuming it goes straight to the NHL, which, as a non-profit, shares it between the current teams.
I THINK the Yotes has the entitlement to the Jets name(I could be wrong) and Colorado has Nords-of course both are NHL property, so it would go along with other merchandise (with of course the aforementioned "markup" sales at arenas stores, ect, which go to the actual clubs)

I could be wrong though.

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09-13-2010, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Sorry to take this slightly off-topic, but I have a question about merchandise (which was discussed earlier here):

What happens to the money made from selling defunct teams' merchandise? Is all the revenue from sales of Jets, Nordiques and Whalers gear (and I guess to a lesser extent, North Stars) being spread out among the current NHL teams?

I'm in Winnipeg, and the amount of Jets gear that still gets bought and sold on a regular basis is obscene. I can honestly say (and I think this is accurate for a lot of people in this city) that I don't recall going a single day (I'm almost 28 years old, so we're talking during the Jets' tenure here as well as many years after) without seeing at least one person wearing some kind of Jets merch. Jerseys, caps, toques, whatever.

Where does that money go? Obviously the Jets/Nords/Whalers/etc. don't exist as teams anymore, so they're not picking up a percentage of it. I'm assuming it goes straight to the NHL, which, as a non-profit, shares it between the current teams.
That's correct. It would all fall under the NHL's merchandising agreement.

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01-26-2011, 08:05 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2* View Post
SUITE SALES

Edmonton has 39 suites and 16 “skyboxes”. I do not know the prices, but I will extrapolate from the per-game costs, which I believe are $5k per game for suites. Assuming a modest discount for committing to an entire season, I have assumed $175K per suite and $150K per skybox. This is ~$6.8M for suites and $2.4M for skyboxes. Note that this represents a huge increase over CAR suite revenue.

Suites Revenue = $9.2M
Just an FYI on this, the Sky Suite tickets average $500 per (as of 2010-2011). The sky suites hold 12 people ($6K) and the lower suites hold 24 people. I don't have pricing on the main concourse suites for 2010-2011
(2005-2006 Sky Suites were ~$200K per season [$4878/game] http://www.canada.com/edmonton/story...e-44eda760137f)


In 07/08 the prices to *rent* the suites where $10K/game for the main concourse (24 per) and $5K for the Sky Suites (12 per).
Source:
http://www.rexall-place.com/exec.html

I'm unsure where you got you're number of suites, the Oilers claim 66 suites:
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=539641

They have 11 "5th level" suites. I'm unsure of the costs of those either or how many they seat.
[EDIT - This report says the 5th level suites were $120K/year in 2005-06, adding $5.4million revenue]

For the Sky Suites, assuming renting is the same price as purchasing, the revenue generated is $80K/game for the Sky Suites and $390K/game for the main concourse suites. This puts suite revenue at $3.2M/season for Sky Suites, + $15.99M for Main Concourse + $5.4M for "5th level" for the season for a total of $24.67M/season from suites.

[EDIT - ~$24.67million revenue from suites -- a combination of numbers from 2005-2006 till present]

*EST

Just an FYI since it's a pretty big discrepancy.

If Sky Suites increased in price from $5K / suite in 2005-2006 to $6K /suite today (an increase of ~20%), the other suites may have increased in price of around the same over that time making the $24.67milllion a possible $29.604million...

[EDIT AGAIN]
This makes the Carolina suite revenue a very, very sad thing. At $5-$3.9million/year for Carolina suites, this should highlight the discrepancy of the Canadian teams vs. some of the southern NHL teams. It's amazing some of the US teams can even spend the the cap, when the lowly Oilers has a significant part of their revenues coming from luxury suites and these teams can't even match that with general admission ($22.9million for Carolina general admission).
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/...les-by-25.html


Last edited by Metzen: 01-26-2011 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Edited to clarify revenue.
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01-26-2011, 08:54 PM
  #49
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I find it amazing that the Oilers are still selling out when they're one of the worst teams in the league and have been for two straight years (let alone missing the playoffs for 5 years in a row).

People want to talk about how bad some of the "Southern" teams are to justify their low attendance figures, yet the Oilers have been equally bad or worse and still operate at 100% capacity.

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01-26-2011, 09:02 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post

To sum up:

Tickets $57.3 M
Advertising $ 10 M
Central Revenue $ 9.0 M
Television $ 15.0 M (now $ 8 M per Fourier)
Food & Beverage $ 4-5.0 M (now $ 2 M)
Parking $ 1.0 M
Naming Rights $ 1.5-2 M
Suite Sales $ 14 M
Merchandising $ 1.5 M
Ticketmaster $ 0.0 M
Other $ 0.0 M

TOTAL $ 104.3 - 104.8 M
...

Forbes has the 2009 revenue estimate for the Oilers at $83M. If I use the 0.86 rate to convert back to CAD, I end up with CA $96.5M. If the CAD had been at par, that would have put the Oilers in the top ten of that list. So, again, factoring in the 9% gain in currency against the US$, and potential price hikes, I do feel comfortable with a figure around the $100-105 M mark.

Seems I should add another $5m then?

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