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The 2011 Pre-Draft Thread [Picks 16, 76, 106, 136, 166, 196]

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Old
01-29-2011, 08:40 PM
  #251
OcAirlines
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
He already plays wing in the OHL occasionally I believe.

I just don't like this kid though and think that he'd be a stupid pick for us, especially at 9-12 like you were wondering over in the prospects section.
He's a boom-or-bust player and we can't really afford to gamble.
There are other kids just like him that will be available in the second, so it'd be a waste of a pick.
He's the type of player that will probably be desirable to a contender like Washington that can afford to gamble.

The people who I'd rather pick in the first at 9-12 range if available:
Huberdeau, Stome

If they aren't available, trade down and select one of:
McNeill, Rask, Scheifele, Zibanejad

There are a number of players I'd select over him even in the second round if I were the Sabres.
I don't think anybody wanted to take Khokhlachev with our 1st rounder. But he would be a good option if we somehow magically get into the late 1st round or he is still there in the 2nd.

And i definitely disagree with your boom-or-bust-comment. Boom-or-bust is just what we need, no more safety-picks please, especially after the 1st round. Risky picking brought us Myers and (to some degree) Ennis and i'll certainly take a bust every now and then instead of going for mediocrity year after year.

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01-29-2011, 08:51 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
I don't think anybody wanted to take Khokhlachev with our 1st rounder.
That would be me. Not that I would necessarily take him with our first if we miss the playoffs, but that's where he got the idea (from my post on another board).

But you never know. Who thought Joey Hishon would go in the first round? If a team wants someone, they'll take him. And Khokhlachev's chemistry with Kassian might be a reason for us to want him.

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01-29-2011, 09:28 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
That would be me. Not that I would necessarily take him with our first if we miss the playoffs, but that's where he got the idea (from my post on another board).

But you never know. Who thought Joey Hishon would go in the first round? If a team wants someone, they'll take him. And Khokhlachev's chemistry with Kassian might be a reason for us to want him.
Damn you !

Okay, i don't think i'd consider Khokhlachev in the 10-20 range, especially if there are equally good Center-options available. I also wouldn't overrate Khokhs chemistry with Kassian. Windsor is a stocked team and, as far as i remember, they have mostly been on different lines after the first few weeks of the season. I definitely like Khokhlachev, but for example Strome and Huberdeau are way more intriguing to me.

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01-30-2011, 12:28 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
I don't think anybody wanted to take Khokhlachev with our 1st rounder. But he would be a good option if we somehow magically get into the late 1st round or he is still there in the 2nd.

And i definitely disagree with your boom-or-bust-comment. Boom-or-bust is just what we need, no more safety-picks please, especially after the 1st round. Risky picking brought us Myers and (to some degree) Ennis and i'll certainly take a bust every now and then instead of going for mediocrity year after year.
No more safe picks?
How many times have we drafted a "safe" player in the 1st since the lockout?

In 2005, we took Marek Zagrapan, the "wildcard".
Bust.
We took Dennis Persson in 2006, who wasn't even ranked in the top 10 European players, because we liked his potential.
Bust.
In 2008, we drafted Myers and Ennis, who I believe were the tallest and shortest players in the first round.
Both were just about as far from "safe" as you can get.
In 2009, I guess we were a bit safe when we picked Kassian, but our organization was really devoid of toughness.
In 2010, we took Pysyk, who yes, was a "safe" pick.

So, that's like, 1/6 or 2/6 "safe" picks and altogether, two busts, two picks that have had good NHL careers so far, and two that can't be judged yet.

And you're misunderstanding my use of "boom-or-bust".
What I'm saying is that, as far as centers go, we can't afford to take anymore players that aren't close to a complete center or a sure thing.
Khokhlachev doesn't really have ideal size, as he's under six feet (I know, not really that big of a deal) and he's not very strong.
I don't think he plays a physical game, and "prone to disappearing at times" is always something you're looking for in a prospect..
As far as two-way ability, he's probably not much of a two-way player.
From everything I've seen, he'll play defense, but I don't think it's a staple of his game or anything.
He's certainly skilled, though.

As far as center prospects currently in the system, at the pro level we have Luke Adam and Paul Byron and that's it.
At the junior level, we have Steven Shipley (who plays wing now, I believe) and Kevin Sundher.
That's it; four prospects total in an organization that isn't icing an incredible team, none of which really fit the mold of a center that teams want in the NHL today.
That mold would be (or at least seems to be): big, highly skilled, and a two-way player.

Adam is big and skilled, but I wouldn't say highly skilled, and hasn't ever really been a two-way player.
Byron is skilled, but not highly skilled, and is small.
I don't really know about his two-way game because I've always written him off.
He's performed well so far, but I don't think he's a top six NHL center.
Shipley has good size and skill, but he isn't progressing well so far this season and doesn't have much consistency, which isn't a good sign.
Like I said, he already plays wing and he apparently has attitude issues.
Sundher has skill and decent size (he's only 6'0" but he's really strong), but again, I don't know about his two-way game.
I could see him becoming a decent NHL player one day, but nothing incredible (most likely a 3rd liner).

None of this changes the fact that he shouldn't be and won't be taken at 9-12 like the poster was suggesting.
There will be better players available, plain and simple.
I believe that all of the players I listed as alternatives fit the mold of the center we're looking for better than Khokhlachev does, but then again, I'm an amateur.
As for trading up to get him, I don't know.
If it involves trading our 2nd, I don't like it because there should be lots of good prospects still available.
There will be some kids that are comparable to Khokhlachev available, lots of intriguing power forward types, and good defensemen.
We have to stop hogging all of the players with less than ideal size.


Last edited by jfb392: 01-30-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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Old
01-30-2011, 07:04 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Khocklachev would be a guy that I would trade up to get back into the 1st round to obtain.

Almost like what we did with Ennis (I know he wasn't traded up for and we used San Jose's pick to get him from the Campbell trade...) A boom bust type player with great offensive upside but not the best defensive player. Also, we tend to do well with small players developing them.

If he was available around 30ish I would not mind putting together a trade of our 2nd with a 3rd in the 2012 draft to move up and get him.
I agree with this. Maybe if we miss out on the ideal targets in the top 10 - drop down and get a couple of later 1sts in the deal. Or more likely package up some 2nds and 3rd to move up.

He's a player I've tried to keep an eye on - and if they go for a 'safer' pick first he would compliment that selection nicely.

I don't think he's overly undersized like Ennis - and he is also one of the youngest players in the draft year. Add in the high potential and the fact he's already playing in NA (and on the same team as Kassian) I think he is one they should look at.

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01-30-2011, 07:57 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
No more safe picks?
How many times have we drafted a "safe" player in the 1st since the lockout?

In 2005, we took Marek Zagrapan, the "wildcard".
Bust.
We took Dennis Persson in 2006, who wasn't even ranked in the top 10 European players, because we liked his potential.
Bust.
In 2008, we drafted Myers and Ennis, who I believe were the tallest and shortest players in the first round.
Both were just about as far from "safe" as you can get.
In 2009, I guess we were a bit safe when we picked Kassian, but our organization was really devoid of toughness.
In 2010, we took Pysyk, who yes, was a "safe" pick.

So, that's like, 1/6 or 2/6 "safe" picks and altogether, two busts, two picks that have had good NHL careers so far, and two that can't be judged yet.
So that's four risky-picks and it looks like we hit 50% of them, I think that's a good rate. I certainly like a potential franchise d-man, a 1st liner and two busts more than two 3rd liners, a 4th liner, a bottom-pairing d-man and no busts.
I'm not too firm with our drafting history before '08, so i don't know if this franchise has a history of going for safety or risky picks. But i definitely think taking the risky-route is a good way, especially if you pick outside of the top-ten, and it looked to work finde the last 3-4 year or so.

Quote:
None of this changes the fact that he shouldn't be and won't be taken at 9-12 like the poster was suggesting.
There will be better players available, plain and simple.
I believe that all of the players I listed as alternatives fit the mold of the center we're looking for better than Khokhlachev does, but then again, I'm an amateur.
As for trading up to get him, I don't know.
If it involves trading our 2nd, I don't like it because there should be lots of good prospects still available.
There will be some kids that are comparable to Khokhlachev available, lots of intriguing power forward types, and good defensemen.
We have to stop hogging all of the players with less than ideal size.
As I said, i also don't want Khokhlachev with our own 1st. But if he is available when we pick in the 2nd round, i would definitely take him. Of course a lot can happen until the end of the season and he can climb or slip in the rankings, which might make it unreasonable to spend a 2nd on him. But i don't think so and i also don't really worry about his consistency, keep in mind that this is his first year in NA.

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01-31-2011, 12:48 PM
  #257
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Since Couturier's outta the question...

...what about Ryan Strome?

Hes got 25G 78Pts in 48gms played this season for the Niagara Ice Dogs. He's second in the OHl in scoring behind the LA Kings 2nd round pick from last year Tyler Toffoli.

He has good hands and a nose for the the net, also he's a center, a position this team lacks.

I called last year that "If you want a winner, draft Jeff Skinner" and currently he has more pts than Hall, Seguin and any other pick from that draft class this season in the same amount of games played.

I feel i can hit 2-for-2 this off season with another break out player but would like to see what your guy's opinion is on this guy.

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01-31-2011, 01:26 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Boose30 View Post
...what about Ryan Strome?

Hes got 25G 78Pts in 48gms played this season for the Niagara Ice Dogs. He's second in the OHl in scoring behind the LA Kings 2nd round pick from last year Tyler Toffoli.

He has good hands and a nose for the the net, also he's a center, a position this team lacks.

I called last year that "If you want a winner, draft Jeff Skinner" and currently he has more pts than Hall, Seguin and any other pick from that draft class this season in the same amount of games played.

I feel i can hit 2-for-2 this off season with another break out player but would like to see what your guy's opinion is on this guy.
You're far from the first on the Strome bandwagon around these parts. In fact, you're probably closer to #70.

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01-31-2011, 01:50 PM
  #259
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Strome talk starts around page 4 and builds and builds.

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01-31-2011, 01:57 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Boose30 View Post
...what about Ryan Strome?

Hes got 25G 78Pts in 48gms played this season for the Niagara Ice Dogs. He's second in the OHl in scoring behind the LA Kings 2nd round pick from last year Tyler Toffoli.

He has good hands and a nose for the the net, also he's a center, a position this team lacks.

I called last year that "If you want a winner, draft Jeff Skinner" and currently he has more pts than Hall, Seguin and any other pick from that draft class this season in the same amount of games played.

I feel i can hit 2-for-2 this off season with another break out player but would like to see what your guy's opinion is on this guy.
I was all aboard the Skinner train last year as well, people were surprised to see him go at 7, I would've taken him top 5 without too much hesitation.

There are a lot of people here who love Strome (myself included) but he likely won't be around when we pick, unfortunately. I'm a big fan of Huberdeau as well but it's looking more and more like he will not be around when we pick either. Unfortunately, there's nobody I really love in the range I see us picking (8-14). I wouldn't mind trading down a bit to grab Rask, Rattie, Puempel, or McNeill....though some of those guys may not be too far out of their range around 14-15 come draft day.

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02-02-2011, 03:05 PM
  #261
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Would you guys trade up for RNH or Couturier?

One of them should be there at #4 or so, if Larsson and Landeskog are #1 and #2.

Or would you rather try to to get Strome or Huberdeau instead (who would cost a lot less to trade up for and may be available where we're selecting anyway)?

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02-02-2011, 03:16 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
Would you guys trade up for RNH or Couturier?

One of them should be there at #4 or so, if Larsson and Landeskog are #1 and #2.

Or would you rather try to to get Strome or Huberdeau instead (who would cost a lot less to trade up for and may be available where we're selecting anyway)?
I'm not that high on Couturier but I would LOVE Strome, and to a slightly lesser extent, Huberdeau. RNH would be my #1 choice but I think he'll go top 2 so I don't really see that as a realistic option.

My unrealistic WANT list for the draft:

1) RNH
2) Landeskog
3) Strome
4) Huberdeau

So to answer your question, I would absolutely do what it would take to trade up and get any one of those guys because I think they can develop into the types of players you can build an entire offense around and it this point we could desperately use a player like that.

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02-02-2011, 04:05 PM
  #263
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When did trading up from 14 to 4 become realistic?

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02-02-2011, 04:58 PM
  #264
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When did trading up from 14 to 4 become realistic?
13 to 4

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02-02-2011, 05:23 PM
  #265
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When did trading up from 14 to 4 become realistic?

6 to 4

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02-04-2011, 06:51 AM
  #266
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?...aft&id=6087476

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Victor Rask

Victor Risk slipped in the latest ranking and now his value might take another dip. The last couple of weeks Rask has found himself playing on the fourth line or getting very limited ice time at all. He got demoted this past week and is now playing with the juniors in Leksand.

Tommy Salo, a former NHL player, is the new General Manager in Leksand and said to ESPN: "Victor's agent called me and addressed that he thought Victor needed more ice time. He asked if we could loan Victor to another team or make a deal. I decided to put Victor on our junior team until further notice."

Scouts think this demotion hurt Rask's chances of getting picked high in the draft: "Victor dropped in the ranking after a good start of this season. He then came to a halt in his development and all this together will affect his chances at the draft. When the season started he was talked about as a first rounder. I don't think that will happen. He's most likely a second rounder judging by his performance and situation the last couple of weeks."
Strome in the 1st and Rask in the 2nd?


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02-04-2011, 09:50 PM
  #267
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=870753

FWIW some people in that thread are saying that Daniel Catenacci is NHL-ready.

He's projected to go in the late 1st or early 2nd.

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02-05-2011, 08:41 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=870753

FWIW some people in that thread are saying that Daniel Catenacci is NHL-ready.

He's projected to go in the late 1st or early 2nd.
Eh, maybe, maybe not. He seems like a longshot to make it. There are certain guys over there who really have solid input and credibility... and then some others who aren't. Post count does not necessarily illustrate which either.

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02-06-2011, 09:06 PM
  #269
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?...aft&id=6087476



Strome in the 1st and Rask in the 2nd?

Where do I sign?

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02-07-2011, 03:19 PM
  #270
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Where do I sign?
I have always liked the idea of taking a safer pick in the early to mid first round and then with your second pick choose a high risk high reward player.

I just feel that you are allowed to take more of a chance and a Strome pick with a Rask follow up is something I would enjoy.

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02-07-2011, 08:54 PM
  #271
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1. I'd be shocked if the Sabres make the playoffs.
2. I'll be wholly disappointed, down to my very core, if they draft at #13.

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02-07-2011, 09:07 PM
  #272
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1. I'd be shocked if the Sabres make the playoffs.
2. I'll be wholly disappointed, down to my very core, if they draft at #13.
If they draft #13 this year, I swear to you right now I will get a Sabres jersey that is customized with the number 13 and that is whoever we draft this year...

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02-11-2011, 07:10 AM
  #273
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http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/juniorhoc...rhockey-319806

Check out what Strome & Hamilton were a part of!


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02-12-2011, 05:17 PM
  #274
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I'm still intrigued by Dan Catenacci. He has great stats despite being on one of the lower-end teams in the OHL. And while stats aren't everything, many believe that he is one of the more NHL-ready prospects in the 1st round (as I said here).

He might be someone to think about, especially if we're out of range to get Strome or Huberdeau.

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02-25-2011, 12:40 AM
  #275
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With them shifting draft position a bit, I wonder if another young (Sept 7th, just 8 days eligible for the draft) defenseman from Sherwood Park, Alberta would be on their radar if they can move assets around to address their needs in the middle by trading from their stock of defense prospects? If Siemens and Pysyk are already close off the ice, and Siemens plays a rugged style that would be easy to love if he matures into the player many think he could be.

Yeah, yeah... I know. Forwards.

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