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Chris Kreider new top prospect for New York Rangers

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Old
09-16-2010, 06:32 PM
  #26
Lion Hound
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It's great to see some depth here, and of course you never know what you have untill they get thier chance at this level. With that said, here's my list and where I think they might top out.


1. Stepan - First line potential, but I think 2nd line center is going to be more accurate.

2. Kreider - Top 6 goal scorer with 25-30 goal potential.

3. Werek - Surprises everyone next season by making the team straight outta camp. Tops out as a Top 6 forward.

4. McDonagh - 3/4 Defenseman at best, liekly ends up a 5/6 guy in the same way Paul Mara did.

5. McIlrath - Physical defenseman in the same mode as Andy Sutton.

6. Bourque - Waterbug overcomes the odds and makes it as a 3rd liner.

7. Grachev - Falls down the ladder some, but eventually makes the show as a 3rd liner who finds some PP time.

8. Weise - Quality 4th liner who makes noise every shift.

9. Kundratek - Slow and steadily becomes a quality defenseman.

10. Zuccarello Aasen - Reality slaps him in the face after his first pro season which half of is played at the AHL level.

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09-16-2010, 06:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
As i'll state in all prospect threads, I see Kreider, Stepan and Grachev being the future of our offensive core. And a great offensive core it looks like.

Key year for Grachev. Either he'll step it up and put up something close to a point per game performance or he'll be relegated to being the new Byers (in terms of value, not style of play). He can't score 30 points this year. Anything short of 70 will be disappointing as far as I am concerned.

I am sure there will be 3 dozen posts right after this one mocking and misquoting me, but a top prospect needs to be able to put up good numbers in his sophomore year.

If he puts up under 30 points, he's likely a career minor leaguer who can't adjust to the pro game, and will likely wind up in the KHL eventually. Look for another Byers-quality player.

If he puts up 40-60 points, he's just another Dale Weise (in terms of value, and not in terms of style of play).

If he puts up 70+ points, he's a top prospect.

Again, I am sure there will be people misquoting me, saying, "oh yeah, any time a 20 year old doesn't score 100 points, we should dump him."

I am not saying dump him, no matter his performance because yes, he's still 20 and can turn it around.

But this is a kid who came in last year with a lot of people - hockey professionals, not just fans - thinking he'll join the Rangers before the end of the year. Whether that was realistic or not, third-line minor-leaguer performance in his sophomore year is not what anyone had hoped for.

If a year ago someone on this board posted that Grachev will be an AHL third liner not only in his rookie year, but also in his sophomore year, everyone would have dismissed him as a doom-and-gloomer who hates the Rangers.

The truth is that very few people become NHL first liners without being stars in the AHL in their second year. You don't go from AHL third liner to NHL first liner, not very often anyway.

We shouldn't dump him no matter what, but we should drop his rankings by 8-10 spots if he scores 25-30 points again.


Last edited by Beacon: 09-16-2010 at 06:51 PM.
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09-16-2010, 07:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
big quote that i'm cutting for the length of the pages sake.
Oh no I definitely agree, Grachev needs to show up much more intensely this year than last. I really hope that having someone in Stepan feeding him the puck also helps him pot the big numbers. If he can't do it with Stepan, you can definitely consider me disappointed. I wouldn't say bust even if he doesn't do great this year, but I definitely wouldn't consider him a top prospect. I just think him and Derek will find a stride and rock hard with it.

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09-16-2010, 07:51 PM
  #29
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I can't get behind a list that has Williams above Hagelin, let alone that far above.
I have Williams ranked higher then Hagelin because Williams is a pro hockey player. He's young. And if it weren't for the glut of defensemen ahead of him, he would have a real chance.

He could/would have a chance in a few organizations.

Hagelin has to sign first before I can rank him any higher. He needs to show that he wants to be a pro hockey player. I understand he wants to finish his college career and get his degree, and more power to him. But this list is about hockey, and he isn't guaranteed anything in this organization by waiting. There are now several guys ahead of him that can fill the role he would fill.

I like Hagelin. He's a good player. But again, I need to see him sign, and commit to the pro game before I can rank him higher.

There's a reason I didn't have him higher, iand I feel its a valid reason.

I can't rank him specificially based on potential, because there's also the potential he never plays pro hockey.

If I were to make this baseed only on potential, Kveton would be far higher. Fact is he won't ever play in Nother America. And the only reason I list him at all is the potential aspect. But again there needs to be more then that for a player to be ranked highly.

And where does the organization rank him?

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09-16-2010, 07:53 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Key year for Grachev. Either he'll step it up and put up something close to a point per game performance or he'll be relegated to being the new Byers (in terms of value, not style of play). He can't score 30 points this year. Anything short of 70 will be disappointing as far as I am concerned.

I am sure there will be 3 dozen posts right after this one mocking and misquoting me, but a top prospect needs to be able to put up good numbers in his sophomore year.

If he puts up under 30 points, he's likely a career minor leaguer who can't adjust to the pro game, and will likely wind up in the KHL eventually. Look for another Byers-quality player.

If he puts up 40-60 points, he's just another Dale Weise (in terms of value, and not in terms of style of play).

If he puts up 70+ points, he's a top prospect.

Again, I am sure there will be people misquoting me, saying, "oh yeah, any time a 20 year old doesn't score 100 points, we should dump him."

I am not saying dump him, no matter his performance because yes, he's still 20 and can turn it around.

But this is a kid who came in last year with a lot of people - hockey professionals, not just fans - thinking he'll join the Rangers before the end of the year. Whether that was realistic or not, third-line minor-leaguer performance in his sophomore year is not what anyone had hoped for.

If a year ago someone on this board posted that Grachev will be an AHL third liner not only in his rookie year, but also in his sophomore year, everyone would have dismissed him as a doom-and-gloomer who hates the Rangers.

The truth is that very few people become NHL first liners without being stars in the AHL in their second year. You don't go from AHL third liner to NHL first liner, not very often anyway.

We shouldn't dump him no matter what, but we should drop his rankings by 8-10 spots if he scores 25-30 points again.
The one thing that ought to be mentioned here is that there have been many criticisms of the way Ken Grenader handled Grachev last year, and I have a very real concern that coaching this season may cause Grachev to revert back to a more passive, defense oriented style that does not allow him to elevate his game.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong

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09-16-2010, 07:58 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by cmdevisser View Post
The one thing that ought to be mentioned here is that there have been many criticisms of the way Ken Grenader handled Grachev last year, and I have a very real concern that coaching this season may cause Grachev to revert back to a more passive, defense oriented style that does not allow him to elevate his game.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong
Why would they encourage him to adopt a defensive oriented style after struggling to put up points last year? If anything they would want to focus on his offensive production.... Rangers would have constant & open dialog with the coaching staff in Hartford, it's not like they hand him off and say "don't ruin him"... If they didn't like the way he was being utilized in Hartford by Gernander, they would certainly address it with him directly...

If him and Stepan are playing together in Hartford, I won't be too concerned entering the season....

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09-16-2010, 08:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I have Williams ranked higher then Hagelin because Williams is a pro hockey player. He's young. And if it weren't for the glut of defensemen ahead of him, he would have a real chance.

He could/would have a chance in a few organizations.

Hagelin has to sign first before I can rank him any higher. He needs to show that he wants to be a pro hockey player. I understand he wants to finish his college career and get his degree, and more power to him. But this list is about hockey, and he isn't guaranteed anything in this organization by waiting. There are now several guys ahead of him that can fill the role he would fill.

I like Hagelin. He's a good player. But again, I need to see him sign, and commit to the pro game before I can rank him higher.

There's a reason I didn't have him higher, iand I feel its a valid reason.

I can't rank him specificially based on potential, because there's also the potential he never plays pro hockey.

If I were to make this baseed only on potential, Kveton would be far higher. Fact is he won't ever play in Nother America. And the only reason I list him at all is the potential aspect. But again there needs to be more then that for a player to be ranked highly.

And where does the organization rank him?
There's never been any hint that Hagelin wouldn't sign with us, and the Rangers haven't pushed him to sign. Nigel Williams sucks, plain and simple. Ranking him above Hagelin is silly. Williams won't make the NHL with the Rangers or any other team. Why do you think we got him for Brian Fahey?

McIlrath hasn't signed with the Rangers yet either. Should we rank him lower too? Pashnin is unsigned and playing in the KHL. And what about Valentenko? He left the AHL for the KHL and now is coming back. Surely he's a flight risk.

Hagelin has proven a lot more than a lot of the guys you have above him. He may only top out as a 3rd liner, but he has the speed, intelligence and work ethic to be an NHL player.

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09-16-2010, 08:08 PM
  #33
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What's the story with Hagelin... One guy I know NOTHING about...
COLLEGE CAREER
-2009-10: Helped University of Michigan Wolverines capture 2010 CCHA championship
-Advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament, tallying two goals and one assist in a first-round win over Bemidji State on March 27
-Established career-highs in games played (45), goals (19), assists (31), points (50), and penalty minutes (34)
-Ranked 11th in the NCAA in points, tied for 12th in assists, and 29th in goals
-Led CCHA in assists and points, and tied for fourth in goals. ...
-Led Michigan in assists and points, tied for first in shorthanded goals (two), ranked second in goals, and tied for third in power-play goals (five)
-Named CCHA Offensive Player of the Week for the week ending Jan. 11
-Ended the regular season riding an 11-game point streak that began on Jan. 29 at Michigan State (two goals and 10 assistsTallied 11 multipoint performances, including four multi-goal efforts
-Reached the 50-point mark for the first timie in his collegiate career. 2008-09: Ranked third on Michigan in points (31), tied for third in goals (13) and fourth in assists (18)
-Tied for third in the CCHA in shorthanded goals (two) and finished fourth in shorthanded points (three)
-Tied for fifth in the CCHA with four game-winning goals.
-As a first-year player, he finished the season seventh on the Michigan team in goals (11) and eighth in points (22)
-Recorded three multiple-point contests
-Registered a four-game scoring streak from Dec. 1 to Jan. 11, collecting five points (two goals and three assists) over the span. -Recipient of the Jim and Bonnie Reece Scholarship for Men's Ice Hockey.

EUROPEAN CAREER
-2006-07: Appeared in 40 games for Sodertalje SK of the J20 Superelit League in Sweden, notching 24 goals and 31 assists for 55 points, along with a plus-14 rating and 42 penalty minutes
-Also appeared in three postseason games with Sodertalje, tallying one goal and five assists
-Had been asked to play for Sodertalje's top team in the Swedish Elite League, but he declined the offer to protect his NCAA eligibility.

INTERNATIONAL CAREER
-2007-08: Captured a Silver Medal with Team Sweden at the 2008 World Junior Championship tournament.

Quote:
"He's a high-energy player that is a tremendous skater," said Rangers amateur scout Larry Bernard, who has watched Hagelin at Michigan ever since the Swede arrived on campus. "Right now he's scoring a lot of goals, but he's also a very dangerous penalty killer. I project him at the NHL level to be a third- or fourth-line energy player that will be a tremendous penalty killer and also a threat a man down."
Quote:
His consistency is remarkable. Hagelin scored at least one point in 35 of 45 games and had a career-high 11 multi-point games. His 11-game point-scoring streak from Jan. 29 to Feb. 27 was the longest by any Wolverines player in three years, and he also registered three separate six-game scoring streaks.
One of the more under-rated prospects we have. He's not a sure thing, but think Sjostrom with less speed but more offensive upside (This is personally) Regardless he still projects to be a 3rd line energy/decent forechecker with offensive ability but I think his potential (Personally) could be a little higher (MAYYYYYBE 2nd line if his offense really blossoms at the NHL level) based just on the fact that he plays so many minutes man down.

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09-16-2010, 08:17 PM
  #34
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In addition to being a good hockey player, Hagelin is said to be an accomplished cook as well. Here is a recent photo:


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09-16-2010, 08:19 PM
  #35
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Just as a programming note Hockey's Future's own Leslie Treff will be on the radio show to talk about the prospects and rangers training camp next Wednesday.

This Hagelin kid seems to fly under the radar. I would like to find out more about him.

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09-16-2010, 08:20 PM
  #36
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Just as a programming note Lelsie Treff will be on the show to talk about the prospects and rangers training camp next Wednesday.

This Hagelin kid seems to fly under the radar. I would like to find out more about him.
Him and Werek. Who was scoring on the OHL at a Grachev like rate, yet no publicity for him

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09-16-2010, 09:24 PM
  #37
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The Dane Byers groupies weep silently...
He is no longer a prospect under HF's guidelines, or he would have been on the list (albeit toward the bottom).

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09-16-2010, 09:47 PM
  #38
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my list would look like this......


1. Derek Stepan C. (AHL)
2. Chris Kreider LW. (NCAA)
3. Evgeny Grachev LW. (AHL)
4. Ryan McDonagh D. (NHL/AHL)
5. Dylan McIlrath D. (CHL)
6. Mats Zuccarello-Aasen RW. (NHL/AHL)
7. Dale Weise RW. (NHL/AHL)
8. Ethan Werek C. (CHL)
9. Chad Johnson G. (AHL)
10. Mikhail Pashnin D. (KHL)
11. Andrew Yogan C. (CHL)
12. Ryan Bourque RW. (CHL)
13. Christian Thomas RW. (CHL)
14. Carl Hagelin LW. (NCAA)
15. Jesper Fasth RW. (SEL)
16. Roman Horak LW ()
17. Michael Sauer D. (AHL)
18. Pavel Valentenko D. (KHL)
19. Cameron Talbot G. (AHL)
20. Tomas Kundratek D. (AHL)
21. Dane Byers LW. (AHL)
22. Brodie Dupont C. (AHL)
23. Sam Klassen D. ()
24. Daniel Maggio D ()
25. Scott Stajcer G. (CHL)

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09-16-2010, 09:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
It's great to see some depth here, and of course you never know what you have untill they get thier chance at this level. With that said, here's my list and where I think they might top out.


1. Stepan - First line potential, but I think 2nd line center is going to be more accurate.

2. Kreider - Top 6 goal scorer with 25-30 goal potential.

3. Werek - Surprises everyone next season by making the team straight outta camp. Tops out as a Top 6 forward.

4. McDonagh - 3/4 Defenseman at best, liekly ends up a 5/6 guy in the same way Paul Mara did.

5. McIlrath - Physical defenseman in the same mode as Andy Sutton.

6. Bourque - Waterbug overcomes the odds and makes it as a 3rd liner.

7. Grachev - Falls down the ladder some, but eventually makes the show as a 3rd liner who finds some PP time.

8. Weise - Quality 4th liner who makes noise every shift.

9. Kundratek - Slow and steadily becomes a quality defenseman.

10. Zuccarello Aasen - Reality slaps him in the face after his first pro season which half of is played at the AHL level.

Now as a caveat I say this with love; but did you just put names in a hat and career potentials in a bowl and then proceed to pick one from each to compile your list?

I read through it and it just came off as incredibly random and inaccurate. Your take on MZA for example goes against all credibility in his favor for being able to adapt to different situations and still be a force to reckon with. I dunno. Just seemed like you were randomly contrary, dramatically cynical, or over estimative (made up word, whatever) in your deductions. Be honest; this list was one made more not out of sound reasoning, but out of a desire to be different while attempting to be witty through randomness, wasn't it lol. Just has an 'off the top of the head - rooted in emotions instead of fact' type ring to it is all.

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09-16-2010, 09:52 PM
  #40
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Few things I'd change like rank McI an 8.0 or 7.5 BUT give em a D. It gets adjusted as he plays so it doesn't really matter.

For the most part other than nit picky things like that the list is what most of us thought it'd be. Glad to see Kreider got credit after his huge 2nd half last year. Question is if Mats has a great rookie year does he get overhyped like Prucha did?

(If I remember right Prucha was an 8.5 A or B after his rookie season. Maybe I'm wrong.)

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09-16-2010, 10:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why would they encourage him to adopt a defensive oriented style after struggling to put up points last year? If anything they would want to focus on his offensive production.... Rangers would have constant & open dialog with the coaching staff in Hartford, it's not like they hand him off and say "don't ruin him"... If they didn't like the way he was being utilized in Hartford by Gernander, they would certainly address it with him directly...

If him and Stepan are playing together in Hartford, I won't be too concerned entering the season....
This is a question that a lot of pack fans, and media pundits like Brooks, were asking last year. Why was Gernader using Grachev in a defense first role? Who the hell knows. There was also grumbling that the NHL brass doesn't really think highly enough of Grenader to consider him for a position on an NHL coaching staff. That tells you something about how much the front office really has to do with what's going on in Hartford...and how much they value the coach they put there.

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09-16-2010, 10:25 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by cmdevisser View Post
This is a question that a lot of pack fans, and media pundits like Brooks, were asking last year. Why was Gernader using Grachev in a defense first role? Who the hell knows. There was also grumbling that the NHL brass doesn't really think highly enough of Grenader to consider him for a position on an NHL coaching staff. That tells you something about how much the front office really has to do with what's going on in Hartford...and how much they value the coach they put there.
The Rangers own their AHL team, if they are unhappy with their AHL coach or the way he's dealing with prospects, you'd think they would do something about it. They certainly have the right to.

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09-16-2010, 10:34 PM
  #43
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1) Stepan
2) Kreider
3) McDonagh
4) Grachev
5) MZA
6) Werek
7) Thomas
8) Valentenko
9) Sauer
10) Hagelin
11) Johnson
12) McIlrath
13) Bourque
14) Weise
15) Horak
16) Fasth
17) Kundratek
18) Yogan
19) Pashnin
20) Dupont

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09-16-2010, 11:06 PM
  #44
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Everyone seems to be caught up in the rankings instead of the fact that we probably have the most promising crop of prospects than we've had in a very long time, if not ever. Forest for the trees, guys.

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09-16-2010, 11:11 PM
  #45
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We fell out of the top 10 prospect pools this year? Seems a bit surprising considering how many solid prospects we still have.

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09-16-2010, 11:20 PM
  #46
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Hagelin has been my "sleeper" prospect forever. He'll be a player.

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09-16-2010, 11:27 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
It's great to see some depth here, and of course you never know what you have untill they get thier chance at this level. With that said, here's my list and where I think they might top out.


1. Stepan - First line potential, but I think 2nd line center is going to be more accurate.

2. Kreider - Top 6 goal scorer with 25-30 goal potential.

3. Werek - Surprises everyone next season by making the team straight outta camp. Tops out as a Top 6 forward.

4. McDonagh - 3/4 Defenseman at best, liekly ends up a 5/6 guy in the same way Paul Mara did.

5. McIlrath - Physical defenseman in the same mode as Andy Sutton.

6. Bourque - Waterbug overcomes the odds and makes it as a 3rd liner.

7. Grachev - Falls down the ladder some, but eventually makes the show as a 3rd liner who finds some PP time.

8. Weise - Quality 4th liner who makes noise every shift.

9. Kundratek - Slow and steadily becomes a quality defenseman.

10. Zuccarello Aasen - Reality slaps him in the face after his first pro season which half of is played at the AHL level.
Yee of little faith...

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09-16-2010, 11:52 PM
  #48
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We fell out of the top 10 prospect pools this year? Seems a bit surprising considering how many solid prospects we still have.
Really? Very surprising, i thought most considered us rounding out the top 10.

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09-17-2010, 12:02 AM
  #49
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Really? Very surprising, i thought most considered us rounding out the top 10.
anisimov and del zotto graduated.

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09-17-2010, 12:26 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
anisimov and del zotto graduated.
I guess that'll do it, meh. I think we'll be bumped back up into the top 10 if (hopefully when) Christian Thomas and our guys like Hagelin perform. With the core of Kreider Grachev and Stepan, while also considering Ryan McD and even MZA, i still think we belong pretty high up if not top 10.

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