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Halpern vs. Belanger

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Old
09-14-2010, 03:53 PM
  #1
Garry Valk
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Halpern vs. Belanger

Anyone else shocked at Belanger signing in Phoenix for $750k? Is it just me or is he miles better than Halpern in many facets of the game?

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09-14-2010, 03:56 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Wow. Was just about to potentially divert another thread down this tangent, but thought I'd double check to see if anyone else already started commenting on it.

Would definitely prefer to have Belanger than Halpern and the extra $150K of cap space. Belanger can be a fairly solid 3rd liner, while I think Halpern is well on his way to the 4th line twilight years, as far as I can tell. Oh well, what can you do.

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09-14-2010, 03:58 PM
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maybe he didnt want to play in montreal for 750K... some people just dont realise that a player might sign for 750k in Phoenix but would not sign for the same amount on another team

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09-14-2010, 04:00 PM
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coolasprICE
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Oh well, what can you do.
French media. Will. Enjoy this one.

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09-14-2010, 04:05 PM
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maybe he didnt want to play in montreal for 750K... some people just dont realise that a player might sign for 750k in Phoenix but would not sign for the same amount on another team
Umm... I think obviously he didn't want to play in Montreal for the same money - he'd be here (there) instead (IF he got an offer, that is). I fully anticipate this thread to go the route of debating how much more could have been offered to Belanger and still be considered a "better" acquisition by the team than Halpern at $600K, and how much more it may have taken to turn Belanger towards Montreal and away from Phoenix's $750K. Legit topic, imo.

I'll toss out the question, I guess. If Halpern is the baseline at $600K, how much would you (everyone) be willing to pay to have Belanger for one year instead? Keep in mind cap considerations, etc.

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09-14-2010, 04:05 PM
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MoonlightGraham
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It would have made more sense to sign Bélanger than Halpern. It's still only a depth signing, so I don't care all that much.

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09-14-2010, 04:07 PM
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Wow. I'm really not a pro-francophone, but to my sense, Belanger is a much better hockey player than Halpern.

That being said, I really get the growing feeling Gauthier and Martin want Eller to be the team's third line center this year.

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09-14-2010, 04:07 PM
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zzoo
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Halpern: below-average 4th liner.
Bélanger: average 3rd liner.

We aren't sure if Belanger wants to play for Habs with the same salary, we don't know the insight. If he does want to play at that salary, then Gauthier fails.

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Halpern: below-average 4th liner.
Bélanger: average 3rd liner.

We aren't sure if Belanger wants to play for Habs with the same salary, we don't know the insight. If he does want to play at that salary, then Gauthier fails.
Thing is, are you signing Belanger just to put him on the 4th line center spot? I mean... In Phoenix, he'll get the opportunity to get top-9 ice time, and some quality linemates... He could even see some PP time.

In Montreal, the third line spot is all but guaranteed to Eller.

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09-14-2010, 04:18 PM
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Mister Potato
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Didn't he sign with Washington for about 1M few weeks ago ?

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09-14-2010, 04:19 PM
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Andy
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Earlier in the summer it was reported that Belanger was asking for 1.5-2 million. Obviously we couldn't afford him and it's obvious no team would give him that amount considering there aren't many teams with cap space (and they are not willing to give such a significant amount for a bottom 6 player).

If he truly wanted to sign here then I'm sure he could have contacted Montreal and told them he would be willing to take a cut.

I don't think it should be a Halpern vs Belanger argument because at the time when Belanger was relevant he was asking for money that we couldn't give him. It's obvious that he took a pay cut after realizing no team would take him for more than one million.

The media will make it out to be a story, but I really don't think it is. i think(and this is pure speculation) that after seeing all these guys sign for small amounts (Halpern, Comrie Asham) made Belanger realize that he needed to the same. I think it took these signings for Belanger to lower his asking price.

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09-14-2010, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Halpern: below-average 4th liner.
Bélanger: average 3rd liner.

We aren't sure if Belanger wants to play for Habs with the same salary, we don't know the insight. If he does want to play at that salary, then Gauthier fails.
Um, i know you guys have a hard-on for Belanger, but these guys are roughly the same player. There's really not much separating them as far as what they can bring to the table. Belanger might have more offensive skills, but Halpern is more of a leader type, which is precisely what the Habs need. This thread is the epitome of grasping at straws.

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09-14-2010, 04:25 PM
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He probably played hardball with the Habs to try and get a good deal seeing he's exactly what the media wants. Since with big players like Kovalev, the Habs showed that they don't bs with contracts, and you play you get burned, Gauthier probably said, thanks but no thanks, we don't want your services at your demands, so go somewhere else.

It's like last year. Was Tanguay going to resign at 2.8 or whatever Tampa got him for? No. He played tough, his agent tried to milk the team, and he ended up taking the last remaining offer after the dust settled.

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09-14-2010, 04:26 PM
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Vanek20
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Didn't he sign with Washington for about 1M few weeks ago ?
Yeah the report was for 1,85M 1year...

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:28 PM
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Garry Valk
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Um, i know you guys have a hard-on for Belanger, but these guys are roughly the same player. There's really not much separating them as far as what they can bring to the table. Belanger might have more offensive skills, but Halpern is more of a leader type, which is precisely what the Habs need. This thread is the epitome of grasping at straws.
40+ pts and a willingness to fight and hit hard is different from defensive specialist at 20 points.

Just saying.

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09-14-2010, 04:30 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Thing is, are you signing Belanger just to put him on the 4th line center spot? I mean... In Phoenix, he'll get the opportunity to get top-9 ice time, and some quality linemates... He could even see some PP time.

In Montreal, the third line spot is all but guaranteed to Eller.
Well, he has just signed for 4th liner money with a team that has at least Hanzal, Prucha, Wellwood, and Fiddler slated to appear in camp. Top 9 is hardly a guarantee there, either, and he should know that (or obviously does, if you judge by the dollar figure). I really don't think prospective icetime was anywhere near the top of factors in his decision-making.

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09-14-2010, 04:32 PM
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Andy
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Yeah the report was for 1,85M 1year...
The report also said that he would sign so long as the caps could have made room for him( or something like that, like the announcement would be made when a player would be moved). This shows that Belanger changed his mind salary wise only when he realized that he couldn't find a job anywhere asking for what he was. After he saw Halpern, Comrie, Asham etc signing for peanuts, he realized he needed to do the same. I think the aforementioned players for him to change his salary demands which is why I think it's unfair to make this a "blame the organization for not signing x player" situation.

At the time he was asking for significant money which we didn't have. If he truly wanted to come here, he would have notified montreal that he changed his salary demands.

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09-14-2010, 04:38 PM
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He was probably holding out for more money then started to panic since were a few days away from camp without a contract. He took the 1st offer to settle his family in a new city

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09-14-2010, 04:41 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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The report also said that he would sign so long as the caps could have made room for him( or something like that, like the announcement would be made when a player would be moved). This shows that Belanger changed his mind salary wise only when he realized that he couldn't find a job anywhere asking for what he was. After he saw Halpern, Comrie, Asham etc signing for peanuts, he realized he needed to do the same. I think the aforementioned players for him to change his salary demands which is why I think it's unfair to make this a "blame the organization for not signing x player" situation.

At the time he was asking for significant money which we didn't have. If he truly wanted to come here, he would have notified montreal that he changed his salary demands.
It has nothing to do with whether or not he "truly wanted to come to Montreal". He's obviously taking the best he can find right now. If Montreal made a counter-offer of $900K, for example, can you guarantee he wouldn't be in Montreal instead? All I can say, is that if I'm a GM I'm way more willing to pay up to $1M for Belanger's services instead of $600K for Halpern's. Whatever though. I don't think we know whether or not PG even made a serious inquiry, or what number(s) he might have tossed out if he did, so no one really knows what to criticize... if anything.

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09-14-2010, 04:42 PM
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Well, he has just signed for 4th liner money with a team that has at least Hanzal, Prucha, Wellwood, and Fiddler slated to appear in camp. Top 9 is hardly a guarantee there, either, and he should know that (or obviously does, if you judge by the dollar figure). I really don't think prospective icetime was anywhere near the top of factors in his decision-making.
Do you honestly think Belanger isn't a better hockey player than Wellwood, Fiddler and Prucha? Hanzal might be more experienced, he still might not even be a better hockey player than Belanger at this point in time.

In Montreal, we have Gomez and Plekanec, plus Eller who's all but guaranteed to get the 3rd line center spot. Two completely different realities.

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09-14-2010, 04:42 PM
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Kriss E
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Belanger would have been better, mainly thanks to his faceoff skills, but really I'm not going to lose any sleep over this.

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:43 PM
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walsy37
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While 150K does not seem like a big deal, the value of it is closer to 200K. In Montreal, he will pay 50% to taxes leaving him with 300K, whereas in AZ (with no state income tax) he will only pay 35% (the current Federal rate unless Obama raises to 40% at then end of 2010) leaving him with around 500k. He probably wanted the Habs to make up that difference or match the 'yotes offer.

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09-14-2010, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Garry Valk View Post
40+ pts and a willingness to fight and hit hard is different from defensive specialist at 20 points.

Just saying.
First of all, Belanger has never topped 40 pts, ever. Halpern twice. Halpern is not that less physical than Belanger, and is bigger than him. Yes Belanger has out-pointed him in the last 2 years by 15 pts a year, but that has way more to do with how top heavy TB's scoring is, and how sucky Minnesota's top lines are. And like I said, Halpern is a leader; he captained the U.S. national team at the 2008 world's for crying out loud...

People are just never happy i guess.

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09-14-2010, 04:45 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Do you honestly think Belanger isn't a better hockey player than Wellwood, Fiddler and Prucha? Hanzal might be more experienced, he still might not even be a better hockey player than Belanger at this point in time.

In Montreal, we have Gomez and Plekanec, plus Eller who's all but guaranteed to get the 3rd line center spot. Two completely different realities.
I think you're overrating Belanger quite a bit.

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:47 PM
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Could be that he's a right handed shot and Lapierre isn't great on draws.

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