Say what you will about Timmin's high picks, they all generally sniff the NHL at the very least...Fischer never even came close for a second. Very unusual for him to be so far off the mark on a player, but it happens.
We'll take that second rounder now, thank you very much.
I don't want to be "that" guy, but I bet Timmins greatly regrets not taking a bigger "gamble" at the time in a guy like Giroux, who by all counts should develop into a legitimate first-liner.
Why Fischer was picked, I'll never fully understand.
The alure of a tall "talented" defensemen can blind a scout so he misses the smallish forwards who have the genuine talent.
Unfortunately his first round magic hasn't been as good as we wouldve hoped, although I get a really good vibe off Leblanc/Tinordi.. I really get the feeling Gauthier may have had his hands in those picks a little.
This is where I disagree, since every team has a head scout that picks a good prospect every once in a while. Plus I'd wait a year or so before claiming P.K is a sure thing, since we have no idea how he will pan out. I know we think he's a sure thing, but history shows this isn't always the case.
Leave Timmins in as a scout in later rounds, get someone here who understands first round talent.
What I truly don't understand is that whenever it's about who has the better prospect pool, in the general boards, Habs fans will fight tooth and nail to claim that we have a very deep, and very good one. Yet, when we talk about Timmins, he's a piece of crap who doesn't know anything about his job.
You can't have it both ways... We either have a great prospect pool, or Timmins sucks.
Fischer was an unfortunate pick. They went off the boards with him. Our draft record isn't that bad over the past few years. It's true that we're lacking an impact player, but Paccioretty, Price, Subban, Leblanc and Tinordi could be that. And to a certain extant, you could say the same about Eller and Palushaj, since the pieces that were used to acquire them were drafted by Timmins. Also, McDonaugh could become an impact player for the Rangers soon. Traded or not, he was still drafted by Timmins. Same for Latendresse.
Don't get me wrong, I am very disappointed by how this all turned out. I'm disappointed Weber, Maxwell, Chipchura, amongst others, haven't followed a more constant development curve.
It's not all black and white. There is a lot of positive about the drafting he's been doing. And he can't be right 100% of the time.
What I truly don't understand is that whenever it's about who has the better prospect pool, in the general boards, Habs fans will fight tooth and nail to claim that we have a very deep, and very good one. Yet, when we talk about Timmins, he's a piece of crap who doesn't know anything about his job.
You can't have it both ways... We either have a great prospect pool, or Timmins sucks.
Fischer was an unfortunate pick. They went off the boards with him. Our draft record isn't that bad over the past few years. It's true that we're lacking an impact player, but Paccioretty, Price, Subban, Leblanc and Tinordi could be that. And to a certain extant, you could say the same about Eller and Palushaj, since the pieces that were used to acquire them were drafted by Timmins. Also, McDonaugh could become an impact player for the Rangers soon. Traded or not, he was still drafted by Timmins. Same for Latendresse.
Don't get me wrong, I am very disappointed by how this all turned out. I'm disappointed Weber, Maxwell, Chipchura, amongst others, haven't followed a more constant development curve.
It's not all black and white. There is a lot of positive about the drafting he's been doing. And he can't be right 100% of the time.
Only one top flight prospect in the entire system. PK. We have some decent prospects, but no elite level talent. I disagree on Tinordi. He will at best be a 4th or 5th dman imo.
Only one top flight prospect in the entire system. PK. We have some decent prospects, but no elite level talent. I disagree on Tinordi. He will at best be a 4th or 5th dman imo.
Some folks are really overlooking Avtsin. He might surprise people and even get a sniff in the NHL quite soon if he does well in Hamilton, given that he has played in the KHL already and thus has more exposure to a higher league than most CHLers moving into the AHL.
I'd laugh so hard if that 2nd round pick we get out of this turned out to be something great. Like imagine you're the team picking after the habs and we nab the next player on your list... then he pans out.
That would be a frustrating ordeal for the GM getting the shaft haha
Some folks are really overlooking Avtsin. He might surprise people and even get a sniff in the NHL quite soon if he does well in Hamilton, given that he has played in the KHL already and thus has more exposure to a higher league than most CHLers moving into the AHL.
There's nothing to suggest that Avatsin will be 'elite' talent level which is what the poster you quoted was saying. Elite imo is Malkin, Iginla, Lecalavier, Crosby, Lidstrom, Pronger level.
I wouldn't consider Cammy, Gomez, or Gio elite.
Last edited by macavoy: 09-17-2010 at 08:31 AM.
Reason: FYI I don't consider Lecalavier elite anymore but he was
The alure of a tall "talented" defensemen can blind a scout so he misses the smallish forwards who have the genuine talent.
yep.. I think a lot of people were surprised by the pick back then since it was off the board a bit.. but Fischer did have the potential to be a complete package. He is one now, just a ****** package.
And the Habs 1st round pick nightmares continue. Chipchura and McDonagh have since been moved, and we had a ton riding on Price and to a lesser extent Kostitsyn. Pacioretty it's still early and he's had injury problems (not his fault he was rushed to the NHL)
Hope Leblanc and Tinordi can break the cruse, cause it's either our 1st round pick busts, or they all over the place. Higgins started out really well then turned to crap, Kostitsyn is hated around here, Price gets booed lots of off ice crap, Pacioretty does little in the NHL, Chipchura gets moved was hated when called up. Then there's the '90's, which I would talk about but I don't want to puke.
And the Habs 1st round pick nightmares continue. Chipchura and McDonagh have since been moved, and we had a ton riding on Price and to a lesser extent Kostitsyn. Pacioretty it's still early and he's had injury problems (not his fault he was rushed to the NHL)
Hope Leblanc and Tinordi can break the cruse, cause it's either our 1st round pick busts, or they all over the place. Higgins started out really well then turned to crap, Kostitsyn is hated around here, Price gets booed lots of off ice crap, Pacioretty does little in the NHL, Chipchura gets moved was hated when called up. Then there's the '90's, which I would talk about but I don't want to puke.
This is very depressing
I hope that Tinordi won't be like another O'Byrne.
I think that Habs should trade their 1st round pick for the 2nd and 4th round pick.
What I truly don't understand is that whenever it's about who has the better prospect pool, in the general boards, Habs fans will fight tooth and nail to claim that we have a very deep, and very good one. Yet, when we talk about Timmins, he's a piece of crap who doesn't know anything about his job.
You can't have it both ways... We either have a great prospect pool, or Timmins sucks..
Personally I think Timmins is doing a decent job, just brutal in the 1st round. But I also don't think have a very good prospect pool. Yes it's very deep, tons of interesting guys but how many of them will be impact players? With guys like Eller, Leblanc, Kristo, Avtsin and Tinordi you have a very good top 5. I think Bennett is going to be very good one day but I've been wrong before.
Then there's the guys that have struggled, Pacioretty, Weber, Maxwell, Carle (injury bug). There's the little guys that might do something but it's going to be hard on a team that lacks size to begin with, Desharnais, Trotter, Gallagher, Dumont, MacMillan, Russell.
What young Timmins draft picks on the Habs have been impact players? Price has to be, Halak was, Subban should be the best thing to done the Habs sweater for some time, White will bring some grit for sure, Pacioretty should turn into a solid NHLer imo just hope he can develop his offensive game and use his size better, Lappy is a solid 4th liner, O'B should turn into a decent bottom pairing D. Pyatt while not a draft pick looks to be a good PKer for us.
I do like the future when you have Subban, Price, Eller, Leblanc, Tinordi, Kristo, Avtsin, Bennett. Guys like White and Conboy on the 4th line down the road.
Personally I think Timmins is doing a decent job, just brutal in the 1st round. But I also don't think have a very good prospect pool. Yes it's very deep, tons of interesting guys but how many of them will be impact players? With guys like Eller, Leblanc, Kristo, Avtsin and Tinordi you have a very good top 5. I think Bennett is going to be very good one day but I've been wrong before.
Then there's the guys that have struggled, Pacioretty, Weber, Maxwell, Carle (injury bug). There's the little guys that might do something but it's going to be hard on a team that lacks size to begin with, Desharnais, Trotter, Gallagher, Dumont, MacMillan, Russell.
What young Timmins draft picks on the Habs have been impact players? Price has to be, Halak was, Subban should be the best thing to done the Habs sweater for some time, White will bring some grit for sure, Pacioretty should turn into a solid NHLer imo just hope he can develop his offensive game and use his size better, Lappy is a solid 4th liner, O'B should turn into a decent bottom pairing D. Pyatt while not a draft pick looks to be a good PKer for us.
I do like the future when you have Subban, Price, Eller, Leblanc, Tinordi, Kristo, Avtsin, Bennett. Guys like White and Conboy on the 4th line down the road.
We have to look at who was traded or lost. McDo, Halak, Streit, Chipchura, Latendresse, S Kostitsyn etc. If Lats scores 40 this year then it was a good pick. The problem may not just be Timmins picks but the Habs development of players, once they leave they seem to improve their overall game so what is wrong?
This thread is so hilarious...everybody here with their rose colored glasses on saying "we still have time" for Fischer when it was evident the guy was a bust and a terrible pick.
Fischer shouldn't be included with the other first round "busts". He chose to stay in school because the Habs wouldn't give him a near-max ELC. He gambled and lost. At least we recoup a 2nd out of it.
We have to look at who was traded or lost. McDo, Halak, Streit, Chipchura, Latendresse, S Kostitsyn etc. If Lats scores 40 this year then it was a good pick. The problem may not just be Timmins picks but the Habs development of players, once they leave they seem to improve their overall game so what is wrong?
To me there's no doubt, the Habs problems are both at the draft table and in how they develop their players. Timmins has been able to get a large number of draft picks to the NHL, but at the same time, very few have been impact players and many have struggled at the highest level, which has to be a concern.
