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Old
06-06-2004, 12:25 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Niedermayer has no real reason to stay. He's won three cups, and possibly a Norris there. I'd say he'd rather go home to Vancouver and play, or go to Anaheim and play with brother Rob.

Martin and Hale are good, but aren't great yet. They will be two huge pieces of the Devils' defense in the future, but not right now.

Madden might stay, but then again, Holik might've stayed. Other teams will offer him lots of money too, and like I said before, UFAs ain't Louie's thing.

Friesen may mean nothing, but he certainly was supposed to. They traded Sykora for him, and it's been obvious who's been the better of the two.

With players like Parise, Martin, and Hale coming in, while other may leave soon, and possibly no Pat Burns, Louie may decide a rebuild is necessary.
So I'm confused. Yes, Niedermayer could and may be gone in the future... but by then, Martin and Hale will be ready. Who cares if Madden leaves... Holik left. It's just rotating parts. And yes, Friesen meant something. He was a key part in winning a cup, and that's all that matters. I'd trade Brodeur, Niedermayer, Elias, and Martin if it meant we'd win the cup. Friesen played out his role. Whoopie.... now he's replaceable from within the system. Who was the better of the two? Sykora. Which one has a cup following the trade... ???

And why would Niedermayer want to leave? We love him, he likes us, the team, the atmosphere, and knows he's part of a good thing. More importantly, he knows that Lou tried to acquire Rob and perhaps (I wouldn't be surprised) they will play together. And he for sure knows that he has a better chance to win the cup in NJ than in Anaheim. Vancouver is debateable, but they have their own problems. Will he leave? Perhaps. Will it take 2, maybe even three years to get over it? Perhaps. Are we deep enough that eventually we'll overcome it? We have before. In 95' we didn't have Nieds... we had Driver. Nieds is better than Driver ever was, but it's still a matter of rotating pieces.

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06-06-2004, 12:28 AM
  #77
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Flame_Star_Devil says:
NJ Goals for: 213. Which is more than any of the following: Rangers, Penguins, Bruins, Canadiens, Thrashers, Hurricanes, Panthers, Capitals, Blues, Blue Jackets, Blackhawks, Flames, Wild, Stars, Kings, Mighty Ducks, or Coyotes.
-------
Rangers->Crap..No Playoffs
Penguins->Malone passes ..some guy from the farm comes in..goal..nuff said.
Bruins->Good team but aren't a powerhouse
Canadiens->Your comparing to us right now? just like I stated..
Thrashers->Crap...No Playoffs
Hurricanes->Crap..No Playoffs
Florida->Crap...No Playoffs
Capitals->Crap...No Playoffs
Blues->Solid team but not great either
Blue Jackets->Crap...No Playoffs
BlackHawks->Crap...No Playoffs
Wild->Crap..No Playoffs
Flames->Let's face it people, they are net even suppose to be here.
Stars->Crap..Modano and Zubov crap most of the year..weak season
Kings->Crap..No Playoffs
Might Ducks->Crap..No Playoffs
Coyotes->Crap...no playoffs

I don't see how comparing your team in scoring to all the non playoff teams and only 4-5 playoff team suppose to prove your point..And when I mean Crap..I don't litterally meaning..I just mean they are weak..not that great...some of them are on the rise though..

Trottier says:
Twelve months removed from hoisting the Stanley Cup, on the heels of a solid '03-'04 regular season, with a majority of their core players (Brodeur, Gomez, Elias, Neidermayer, etc.) in their prime, and a promising group of young talent arriving (the kids on D, Parise), and suddenly the Montreal Canadiens, a non-plyoff team one year ago, and impressive second round loser this spring are their equal
-----
You forgot arguably the 2nd most important player on ur team(Stevens) that might not come back and how long will Niedermayer stay in Nj ..long term or short term? how much $$$. Your prospects argument is also weak...Habs have the best prospects in the league(Perezhogin,Kostsitsyn,Higgins,Komisarek) while having a good core too
(Theodore,Koivu,Ribeiro,Ryder,Zednik, *Kovalev* , Souray and Markov)..yes we got out in the 2nd round this year..you guys got out in the 1st round..so what..we are on the rise and I am not so sure about you guys...see below.

DucksFly says:
Stevens is probably gone. Without him, as we have seen, the Devils are much, much worse, and playoff success isn't as much. If they lose Friesen, they lose a big part of their run.
-----
Exactly!

The vs. Montreal argument doesn't work as well, as Montreal lost to the eventual ECF champs, after beating out 2nd place Boston, and overcoming a 3-1 defeceit. They arguably did better than the Devs this season.
----
Thank you!


Flames_Stars_Devils says:
well, two cup appearances, one more cup. Then we lose Holik, Arnott, and Sykora... oh no, we're done again! Wait a second... we'll just take another cup with us on the way out
-----
Stevens means way more to your team then those guys ever did ... and don't forget you got a return on Sykora and Arnott so don't make it seem like you guys got nothing out of them and rebounded by urselef. Madden might leave, ...who can step in and replace arguably the #1 shutdown player in the league..yes Parise is great and he will be great..but can he come in and play against the opposition top line.

Lou offered Holik 8M to stay with NJ because he considered Holik a core player
----
Ya ...Lou is a genius!!


As for the Habs..we were neck and neck with you guys for 6th-7th place in the East at the end until we went into a bad slump
You without Brodeur playing great= Terrible..
Us without Theodore playing geat= We suck but we still won against the Bruins!

You without Stevens=Terrible
Us without Souray playing great = Very bad but still found a way

You can compare the best players to the Habs best players but we have a better core, we have better players surrounding our star players and that's what makes a team

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06-06-2004, 12:39 AM
  #78
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I happen to think that the Habs are set up nicely for the next several years, and if there young pipeline of talent develops, they should be contenders in the near-future.

You are getting ahead of yourself with some of your young Montreal player (read: prospect) evaluations, and selling NJD waaaaaay short. (By the way, I'm not a NJD fan.) And sure, if Neidermayer leave, Brodeur retires suddenly and Parise trips on a puck, the Devil's future is cloudy. Sorry, not into assumptions here.

Less inclined to think that an organization that has rebuilt on the fly over the last 10 years and won three Cup in the process is suddenly headed downward, at least to any great extent and for any prolonged period of time whatsoever.

Finally, if one wants to mock the President/GM of a franchise that has been a perennial contender for a decade, do so at the risk of looking foolish. You can cite Lamariello and the Holik non-signing/contract offer. Another fan here suggests that Anaheim "won" the Sykora deal. Meanwhile, since both of those moves were made, the team has won yet another Cup! Sorry, that's called "not seeing the forest for the trees! Micro-analyze this trade or that trade all you want. The guy produces Cup winning teams. End of story.


Last edited by Trottier: 06-06-2004 at 12:44 AM.
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06-06-2004, 12:44 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I happen to think that the Habs are set up nicely for the next several years, and if there young pipeline of talent develops, they should be contenders in the near-future.

You are getting ahead of yourself with some of your young Montreal player (read: prospect) evaluations, and selling NJD waaaaaay short. (By the way, I'm not a NJD fan.) And sure, if Neidermayer leave, Brodeur retires suddenly and Parise trips on a puck, the Devil's future is cloudy. Sorry, not into assumptions here.

Less inclined to think that an organization that has rebuilt on the fly over the last 10 years and won three Cup in the process is suddenly headed downward, at least to any great extent and for any prolonged period of time whatsoever.
They haven't faced a challenge this big before...losing Scott Stevens..their #1 defenseman for so many years..the playoff warrior...the leader..

Why am I getting ahead of myself with the Habs prospects...I hope they all develop well but we see often that's not the case but the Habs prospect pool have more talent then the Devils even though both are very nice.

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06-06-2004, 12:47 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Flame_Star_Devil says:
NJ Goals for: 213. Which is more than any of the following: Rangers, Penguins, Bruins, Canadiens, Thrashers, Hurricanes, Panthers, Capitals, Blues, Blue Jackets, Blackhawks, Flames, Wild, Stars, Kings, Mighty Ducks, or Coyotes.
-------
Rangers->Crap..No Playoffs
Penguins->Malone passes ..some guy from the farm comes in..goal..nuff said.
Bruins->Good team but aren't a powerhouse
Canadiens->Your comparing to us right now? just like I stated..
Thrashers->Crap...No Playoffs
Hurricanes->Crap..No Playoffs
Florida->Crap...No Playoffs
Capitals->Crap...No Playoffs
Blues->Solid team but not great either
Blue Jackets->Crap...No Playoffs
BlackHawks->Crap...No Playoffs
Wild->Crap..No Playoffs
Flames->Let's face it people, they are net even suppose to be here.
Stars->Crap..Modano and Zubov crap most of the year..weak season
Kings->Crap..No Playoffs
Might Ducks->Crap..No Playoffs
Coyotes->Crap...no playoffs

I don't see how comparing your team in scoring to all the non playoff teams and only 4-5 playoff team suppose to prove your point..And when I mean Crap..I don't litterally meaning..I just mean they are weak..not that great...some of them are on the rise though..

Trottier says:
Twelve months removed from hoisting the Stanley Cup, on the heels of a solid '03-'04 regular season, with a majority of their core players (Brodeur, Gomez, Elias, Neidermayer, etc.) in their prime, and a promising group of young talent arriving (the kids on D, Parise), and suddenly the Montreal Canadiens, a non-plyoff team one year ago, and impressive second round loser this spring are their equal
-----
You forgot arguably the 2nd most important player on ur team(Stevens) that might not come back and how long will Niedermayer stay in Nj ..long term or short term? how much $$$. Your prospects argument is also weak...Habs have the best prospects in the league(Perezhogin,Kostsitsyn,Higgins,Komisarek) while having a good core too
(Theodore,Koivu,Ribeiro,Ryder,Zednik, *Kovalev* , Souray and Markov)..yes we got out in the 2nd round this year..you guys got out in the 1st round..so what..we are on the rise and I am not so sure about you guys...see below.

DucksFly says:
Stevens is probably gone. Without him, as we have seen, the Devils are much, much worse, and playoff success isn't as much. If they lose Friesen, they lose a big part of their run.
-----
Exactly!

The vs. Montreal argument doesn't work as well, as Montreal lost to the eventual ECF champs, after beating out 2nd place Boston, and overcoming a 3-1 defeceit. They arguably did better than the Devs this season.
----
Thank you!


Flames_Stars_Devils says:
well, two cup appearances, one more cup. Then we lose Holik, Arnott, and Sykora... oh no, we're done again! Wait a second... we'll just take another cup with us on the way out
-----
Stevens means way more to your team then those guys ever did ... and don't forget you got a return on Sykora and Arnott so don't make it seem like you guys got nothing out of them and rebounded by urselef. Madden might leave, ...who can step in and replace arguably the #1 shutdown player in the league..yes Parise is great and he will be great..but can he come in and play against the opposition top line.

Lou offered Holik 8M to stay with NJ because he considered Holik a core player
----
Ya ...Lou is a genius!!


As for the Habs..we were neck and neck with you guys for 6th-7th place in the East at the end until we went into a bad slump
You without Brodeur playing great= Terrible..
Us without Theodore playing geat= We suck but we still won against the Bruins!

You without Stevens=Terrible
Us without Souray playing great = Very bad but still found a way

You can compare the best players to the Habs best players but we have a better core, we have better players surrounding our star players and that's what makes a team
We scored more goals than more than half of the other teams in the league. So they're weak - so what? What's the point? We still scored more goals than 50% of the league. That doesn't tell me our offense is weak, that tells me it's about average. Which it is.

I've dealt with the Stevens/Niedermayer stuff over and over again.. eventually everyone leaves. The great teams deal with the losses. We've dealt with every loss thus far... granted, none have been as great as Stevens/Niedermayer. But we handled ourselves pretty well, and I still don't think Nieds is going to leave.

Lots of teams did better than the Devils this season. Lots of teams always do better than the Devils. But we have three cups in between those seasons. Do you?

Souray is no Scott Stevens. What an irrelevant comparison. But to make my point somewhat more clear....

Devils Record With Scott Stevens: 17 - 13 - 8
Devils Record Without Scott Stevens: 26 - 14 - 4

(for the sak of simplicity, losses include OT losses as well).

Frankly, it doesn't look too different to me...
If anything, our record got BETTER after Stevens left.

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06-06-2004, 12:48 AM
  #81
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Trottier said:
Finally, if one wants to mock the President/GM of a franchise that has been a perennial contender for a decade, do so at the risk of looking foolish. You can cite Lamariello and the Holik non-signing/contract offer. Another fan here suggests that Anaheim "won" the Sykora deal. Meanwhile, since both of those moves were made, the team has won yet another Cup! Sorry, that's called "not seeing the forest for the trees! Micro-analyze this trade or that trade all you want. The guy produces Cup winning teams. End of story.

...I didn't say anything about the Sykora deal and I don't see how offering a contract to a player(Holik) makes it a good move because they won the cup...

Let's face facts here..Holik isn't anywhere near 8 M $...if he signed that contract..I would of laughed my ass off at Lou even though he is a great Gm..but he's not a genius by offering him that..that's what I meant. Half of the people here would be still laughing their ***** off if that signing had happend.

Lou is great in Drafting...Trading players...not so much..Signing players..no comment on it, Haven't seen enough and I dunno if it's him or it's the management no willing to give him more money to spend but maybe that's a good thing.

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06-06-2004, 12:49 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
They haven't faced a challenge this big before...losing Scott Stevens..their #1 defenseman for so many years..the playoff warrior...the leader..

Why am I getting ahead of myself with the Habs prospects...I hope they all develop well but we see often that's not the case but the Habs prospect pool have more talent then the Devils even though both are very nice.
I do not disagree at all with your point about Stevens, though I'm not ready to send him off into the sunset until he states his intentions, not people speculating, as they have for months, on a chatboard.

The Habs have a more impressive prospect pool than NJD, and most every other team in the league.

The definition of "prospect": "has demonstrated absolutely nothing on NHL ice."

That is not to say a player who is a prospect can't or won't succeed in the NHL, but way too many people jump to that conclusion, incorrectly.

***

Final thoughts on Lou, Gainey or any other GM, coach or player or team: I measure success by the bottom line. The only thing that counts, ultimately is who's left standing come June each season.

Put it this way. After Monday night, rest assured you'll hear excuses and criticisms galore about the Cup winner, regardless of who it is. "They were lucky" or "they won't repeat," "they benefited from poor calls", etc.

All nonsense, and all meaningless. Scoreboard.

If one wants to analyze this deal or would-be signing, etc. fine. But ultimately, those moves, or nonmoves, are judged on the ice, and performance is judged ultimately, not by individual statistics, but by which team hoists the Cup. Three in ten years (and four Final appearances in total) ain't bad, you know?


Last edited by Trottier: 06-06-2004 at 12:55 AM.
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06-06-2004, 12:52 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Lou is great in Drafting...Trading players...not so much..Signing players..no comment on it, Haven't seen enough and I dunno if it's him or it's the management no willing to give him more money to spend but maybe that's a good thing.
Lou doesn't even DO the drafting. David Conte does. He's our other genius. But not so good in trades? Well...

Neal Broten
Alexander Mogilny
Vladimir Malakhov
Scott Stevens (tradelike deal)
The pick we used to draft Scott Niedermayer
Claude Lemieux
Arnott for Nieuwendyk and Langenbrunner - brought us a cup, so WE WON, even if Dallas didn't lose
Sykora for Friesen and Tverdovsky - brought us a cup so WE WON, even if Anaheim didn't lose
Grant Marshall

Free Agents:
John Madden
Brian Rafalski
Turner Stevenson

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06-06-2004, 12:52 AM
  #84
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I never stated that Souray is a scott Stevens..can you please tell me where you got that from????

I just comapred the two...why did I do that? No ..not because I think Souray plays like Scott Stevens...obviously not but because both where this year the team's #1 defenseman..and just showing the difference when both were not playing or playing terribly.

Losing Stevens long term..you will see the difference. Also during that time you guys went on that hot streak and you were beating everybody. But Stevens shows a huge hole in your defense and it was exposed during the playoffs when strategy and keys to the SERIES are more important then usual.

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06-06-2004, 12:53 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
They haven't faced a challenge this big before...losing Scott Stevens..their #1 defenseman for so many years..the playoff warrior...the leader..

Why am I getting ahead of myself with the Habs prospects...I hope they all develop well but we see often that's not the case but the Habs prospect pool have more talent then the Devils even though both are very nice.
Just to make myself clear...

Devils Record With Scott Stevens: 17 - 13 - 8
Devils Record Without Scott Stevens: 26 - 14 - 4
(for the sake of simplicity, losses include OT losses as well).

Frankly, it doesn't look too different to me...
If anything, our record got BETTER after Stevens left.

The Habs prospects and Devils prospects are just that - Prospects. But I tend to trust in Conte and Lamoriello, who have proven they draft well.

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06-06-2004, 12:54 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I happen to think that the Habs are set up nicely for the next several years, and if there young pipeline of talent develops, they should be contenders in the near-future.

You are getting ahead of yourself with some of your young Montreal player (read: prospect) evaluations, and selling NJD waaaaaay short. (By the way, I'm not a NJD fan.) And sure, if Neidermayer leave, Brodeur retires suddenly and Parise trips on a puck, the Devil's future is cloudy. Sorry, not into assumptions here.

Less inclined to think that an organization that has rebuilt on the fly over the last 10 years and won three Cup in the process is suddenly headed downward, at least to any great extent and for any prolonged period of time whatsoever.

Finally, if one wants to mock the President/GM of a franchise that has been a perennial contender for a decade, do so at the risk of looking foolish. You can cite Lamariello and the Holik non-signing/contract offer. Another fan here suggests that Anaheim "won" the Sykora deal. Meanwhile, since both of those moves were made, the team has won yet another Cup! Sorry, that's called "not seeing the forest for the trees! Micro-analyze this trade or that trade all you want. The guy produces Cup winning teams. End of story.
True they won a cup, but Friesen was the only big part of that cup run, and they probably could've done a bit better there with Sykora in his place. Also, if Lou fails to qualify Friesen, and loses him for nothing, he'll have Maxim Balmochynk to show for Petr Sykora, Mike Commodore and J-F Damphousse(could've gotten you Rob Niedermayer), and Igor Pohanka. This is like the Calgary trade of Rob Ramage and some others for Brett Hull. They won a cup after trading Hull, but they'd probably have won it anyway with him there, and they would have been better in the future if they didn't make that trade.

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06-06-2004, 12:56 AM
  #87
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Lou doesn't even DO the drafting. David Conte does. He's our other genius. But not so good in trades? Well...

Neal Broten
Alexander Mogilny..No longer with tea,
Vladimir Malakhov...Sheldon Souray
Scott Stevens (tradelike deal)..trade like? what?
The pick we used to draft Scott Niedermayer..Draft..
Claude Lemieux..wtv..
Arnott for Nieuwendyk and Langenbrunner - brought us a cup, so WE WON, even if Dallas didn't lose..True ut that doesn't mean it's a good deal..didn't hurt but ..
Sykora for Friesen and Tverdovsky - brought us a cup so WE WON, even if Anaheim didn't lose...Tverdovsky sucked ass for you and you were ready to trade for Patrice Brisebois.
Grant Marshall...wtv

Free Agents:
John Madden
Brian Rafalski
Turner Stevenson...nothing special..

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06-06-2004, 12:56 AM
  #88
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I think that every teams except the Caps and the Pens could do next year what Calgary have accomplished this year.

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06-06-2004, 12:58 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
I never stated that Souray is a scott Stevens..can you please tell me where you got that from????

I just comapred the two...why did I do that? No ..not because I think Souray plays like Scott Stevens...obviously not but because both where this year the team's #1 defenseman..and just showing the difference when both were not playing or playing terribly.

Losing Stevens long term..you will see the difference. Also during that time you guys went on that hot streak and you were beating everybody. But Stevens shows a huge hole in your defense and it was exposed during the playoffs when strategy and keys to the SERIES are more important then usual.
It was exposed in the playoffs. SO WHAT? That's when weaknesses get exposed. We had a hole. Scott Stevens is not the only player who can fill that hole! The game Colin White played physical and was a presence, WE WON, because Whitey filled that hole. Perhaps no one will ever fill it like Scott Stevens did, but it CAN BE FILLED. That's the whole point of a modular team base. Constant transformation of personnel to fit the current climate.

As for the Souray/Stevens thing... you compared Souray and Stevens like they had the same value, and perhaps they did at the time. But Souray is no Scott Stevens, and losing Soury would not hurt the Canadiens as much as losing Stevens would hurt the Devils... and we still got stronger without him.

Once again:

Devils Record With Scott Stevens: 17 - 13 - 8
Devils Record Without Scott Stevens: 26 - 14 - 4

What does that tell you about our ability to adapt?

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06-06-2004, 12:58 AM
  #90
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Why is my Stevens post ahead of your stevens post? I was replying to it..

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06-06-2004, 01:01 AM
  #91
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why do you keep bringing up the record...I can bring this up

Devils with Stevens = Cup
Devils without Stevens = First round exit.

What's ur point? My point is that ur team is much weak without Stevens then with Stevens..I think everybody would agree with it.

I was simply comparing each team's arguably #1 defenseman(We have Markov and you have Niedermayer who can each play #1 roles)

We made the playoffs in 2002 without Koivu but we didn't make the playoffs in 2003 with Koivu..does that make us a better team without Saku Koivu?

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06-06-2004, 01:01 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
True they won a cup, but Friesen was the only big part of that cup run, and they probably could've done a bit better there with Sykora in his place....
See my last post above. Cups won are the ultimate measurement of the success or failure of deals, drafts or any other form of player procurement. If the goal was simply to acquire "the best players" the Rangers would be a dynasty. The idea is to put together the best (winning) team. big difference, and no one has done it better thannLou over recent time.

BTW, IMO, the Sykora deal was nothing but a great deal for Anaheim, as well, no debate there. And Murray has built a solid NHL squad and a superb pipeline of talent in just two years. One just needs to consider that Sykora may very well have needed that change of scenary (to Anaheim) at this point in his career to produce, and he may have worn out his welcome in NJ, for one reason or another. It happens.


Last edited by Trottier: 06-06-2004 at 03:22 PM.
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06-06-2004, 01:02 AM
  #93
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Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Lou doesn't even DO the drafting. David Conte does. He's our other genius. But not so good in trades? Well...

Neal Broten
Alexander Mogilny..No longer with tea,
Vladimir Malakhov...Sheldon Souray
Scott Stevens (tradelike deal)..trade like? what?
The pick we used to draft Scott Niedermayer..Draft..
Claude Lemieux..wtv..
Arnott for Nieuwendyk and Langenbrunner - brought us a cup, so WE WON, even if Dallas didn't lose..True ut that doesn't mean it's a good deal..didn't hurt but ..
Sykora for Friesen and Tverdovsky - brought us a cup so WE WON, even if Anaheim didn't lose...Tverdovsky sucked ass for you and you were ready to trade for Patrice Brisebois.
Grant Marshall...wtv

Free Agents:
John Madden
Brian Rafalski
Turner Stevenson...nothing special..
No longer with team? So what? Mogilny and Malakhov were the important pieces that won the cup in 2000! So what they're gone now. Someone else is in their spot.

Scott Stevens: essentially traded Brendan Shanahan for Stevens and like a million draft picks.

Scott Niedermayer: we needed to make a trade to get him, didn't we? That's where trading and drafting go hand in hand.... the one is much more effective with the other.

Claude Lemieux: got him back in 2000 to do his thing and win the cup with us. He was a great addition.

Grant Marshall: scored 6 playoff goals, including a series winner! He was KEY. Without him we do NOTHING. He helped win the cup!

The Arnott and Sykora deals.... not that special? I'd trade ANYTHING for the cup. ANYTHING.

Turner Stevenson - not special? You obviously didn't watch the game he returned in last years SCF. He may not be pretty, but he gets the job done.

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06-06-2004, 01:04 AM
  #94
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why do you keep bringing up the record...I can bring this up

Devils with Stevens = Cup
Devils without Stevens = First round exit.

What's ur point? My point is that ur team is much weak without Stevens then with Stevens..I think everybody would agree with it.

I was simply comparing each team's arguably #1 defenseman(We have Markov and you have Niedermayer who can each play #1 roles)

We made the playoffs in 2002 without Koivu but we didn't make the playoffs in 2003 with Koivu..does that make us a better team without Saku Koivu?
Devils have had Stevens since 1992. Using that logic, we should have 11 cups. A team doesn't win every year. Are we a better team without Stevens? Of course not! Can we handle his absence? Our record would seem to indicate so. Remember, with Stevens in 2002 we lost in the first round. With Stevens in 1996 we didn't make the playoffs. With Stevens between 1997 and 1999 we did jack in the playoffs. One player a team does not make.

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06-06-2004, 01:05 AM
  #95
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Stevenson gets the job done but so does 250 other nhl players who can play 3rd-4th line. I have seen quite a few Devils game with Stevenson and I have also seen him in Montreal...decent player but nothing special...kinda like acquiring Jim Dowd for us.

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06-06-2004, 01:09 AM
  #96
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One player means a whole **** to a team...every though he is not the whole team..he is still HUGE!:

Anaheim-Fedorov
Boston-Thornton
Colorado-Forsberg..Foote..Blake
Detroit-Yzerman..Lidstrom
Montreal-Koivu
Toronto-Sundin
Buffalo-Briere
Calgary-Iginla
San Jose-Marleau
Philadelphia-Keith Primeau
St-Louis-Pronger
NyRangers-Leetch

They don't make a team but they are huge parts of it and could potentielly destroy the locker room,leadership and the team if they left..

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06-06-2004, 01:09 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Stevenson gets the job done but so does 250 other nhl players who can play 3rd-4th line. I have seen quite a few Devils game with Stevenson and I have also seen him in Montreal...decent player but nothing special...kinda like acquiring Jim Dowd for us.
So what? He fits right in, does his job. That's the whole point. That's every player for NJ: they do their job. That's my point. Nothing special... well, was Mogilny special? Because when we lost him, we replaced him readily enough with Friesen. Swapping players to fill the same roles. That's how NJ operates. It's a construct which is specifically designed to get the best out of players. Only Scott Stevens can fill his role... so when he does leave, we'll divide it up and spread it out, keep the position filled. A team is the sum of the parts. Stevens is a big part, but he is not irreplaceable. No one is. Anyone who has watched NJ for long enough knows this.

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06-06-2004, 01:13 AM
  #98
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He is replacable but not for a couple of yrs...
You had two rookies in ur lineup this year(defense) and you can't make one of them take on a bigger role like that.

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06-06-2004, 01:17 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
One player means a whole **** to a team...every though he is not the whole team..he is still HUGE!:

Anaheim-Fedorov
Boston-Thornton
Colorado-Forsberg..Foote..Blake
Detroit-Yzerman..Lidstrom
Montreal-Koivu
Toronto-Sundin
Buffalo-Briere
Calgary-Iginla
San Jose-Marleau
Philadelphia-Keith Primeau
St-Louis-Pronger
NyRangers-Leetch

They don't make a team but they are huge parts of it and could potentielly destroy the locker room,leadership and the team if they left..
Funny... I can remember when Thornton didn't even play for Boston. Were they bad? Not really. Were they a different team? Yes.
Colorodo - Forsberg, Foote, Blake? Weren't always the heart of that team. Bourque came and went, as did others.
Detriot - seem to have gotten over Fedorov just fine, even though he was a key to that team
Toronto - Sundin? He hasn't been around all that long. When he got injured, someone else stepped up.
Buffalo - Briere has been the heart of Buffalo for maybe half a season. MAYBE. What does that tell you? Tells me that maybe he's not the only clog.
San Jose - Marleau... he's been devolping a while. Why did San Jose suddenly get good now? It's not just Marleau.
Philly - not long ago, it was Lindros. Or Brind'Amour. Only recently did it become Primeau.
St. Louis - Pronger? Well, if Pronger is so important and valuable.... why haven't they won anything? Maybe because the rest of the team just didn't step it up.
Rangers - Leetch? Leetch was important, sure. But so was Graves. And Messier. And Richter.

No one player is a team by themselves. That why one player teams don't go anywhere. I'd even argue that since Stevens went down Gomez and Elias became more important to NJ's success than Stevens, because they stepped it up to fill some of the void. All of it? No. It takes time to fill a void. But you can't win every season, and transitions like these are why.

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06-06-2004, 01:18 AM
  #100
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He is replacable but not for a couple of yrs...
You had two rookies in ur lineup this year(defense) and you can't make one of them take on a bigger role like that.
No? Well, why can't Colin White? Or Brian Rafalski? Or someone else we might acquire through trade? Transitions take time, yes. That's why it's so hard to repeat - it's hard to fill the little holes and create the chemistry quickly.

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