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Old
09-19-2010, 03:00 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpo...ations&sent=go

10% of Spezza & Michalek's season, all of it at the beginning... in the 28 games you're complaining about.
Regin-Spezza-Alfie was 11.08% ES and they were together for like 10 games to end the season

Cheechoo-Spezza-Michalek 9.31% ES... so your only looking at about eight games.

Thanks for the tool... not only does the game log prove my point but this tool furthur proves my point.

Spezza spent less ES ice time with Cheechoo then he did with Regin... and he did not play much with Regin

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09-19-2010, 03:39 PM
  #27
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Yes, but again Fuhr; your denominator is different because you started off your criticism talking about Spezza's stats over the first 28 games and are now talking about 10-ish games with Regin now over the course of the full season.

Also, as I've been thinking about it... almost all of those smaller combos look like line changes instead of rela lines. Maybe a few were haphazard lines thrown together after a PK, but they're helping to obscure just how much Cheechoo was purposely put with Spezza & Michalek at the beginning of the season.

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09-19-2010, 03:57 PM
  #28
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Spezza and Cheechoo played together for about eight games. I used Regin because it's difficult to remember back to October/November for some.

Spezza played less with Cheechoo at the beginning of the season then he played with Regin to end the season.

Game log backs that up after game eight with the huge difference in ice time game by game. Dobbers link backs that up with line percentage.

From game 9-28 the combo of Spezza and Cheechoo simply did not happen.

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09-19-2010, 04:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Ottawa Senators
2009-10: 44-32-6 (5th in East, Eliminated in conference QF by Penguins)
General Manager: Bryan Murray (4th Season)
Head Coach: Cory Clouston (3rd Season)


... That will put even more pressure on younger players to fill his spot on the team. It should be a battle between Brian Lee and possibly Jared Cowan to see who gets Kuba's minutes. If the team struggles in their own end in the early going then it will be interesting to see how the goaltending tandem responds. It appears that Sens' brass still believe in Leclaire and will give him every chance to succeed, however he will need to stay healthy and put forth a consistent effort every night.
Speaking of health, it has to be a major concern that veterans Daniel Alfredsson, Alex Kovalev, Milan Michalek and Kuba have all undergone major surgical procedures over the past 12 months. The Sens need a fully healthy lineup if they hope to compete for the playoffs this season...
at Cowan

Only people who don't know much about the NHL would (still) make that mistake...

And I don't see how health problems could be worse than last year. Sens made the playoffs quite easily last year and were plagued by injuries to key players...

So when you read this, you get the feeling that the Sens will struggle all season long around the 12th spot, and if they are "lucky" and all go "right", could make the playoffs at the 8th spot.

Conclusion : Habs or Leafs fan wrote this

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
His first 28GP 5G 21Pts -5

He turned it on when he came back from injury but Spezza makes 7.0 million and is our highest paid player.

The season as a whole was mediocre... he needds to be franchise beginning game one.
Spezza was mediocre (and even worse) when he had his back problems (pre-injury). He was ELITE when he came back. The writer is pretty "Sens ignorant" to declare that Spezza was mediocre last season. That season had TWO DISTINCT PART for Spezza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Regin-Spezza-Alfie was 11.08% ES and they were together for like 10 games to end the season

Cheechoo-Spezza-Michalek 9.31% ES... so your only looking at about eight games.

Thanks for the tool... not only does the game log prove my point but this tool furthur proves my point.

Spezza spent less ES ice time with Cheechoo then he did with Regin... and he did not play much with Regin
You're kidding right? 8 games on 28 is almost 30%, aka almost 1/3 of the sample size. That's clearly what we were talking about, the first 28 games where Spezza struggled.


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Old
09-19-2010, 04:11 PM
  #30
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Kuba is already a start.

Will Leclaire and Elliott be able to have solid seasons? They will be tested in a hurry to begin the year as the D is incredibly untested. Who kills penalties with Phillips? What happens if Phillips takes a penalty?

A lot of question marks... I'd rather be an underdog then be praised. If the Sens were praised and did not live up to expectations it be like 08 when the media ripped this team apart.

There is enough question marks to keep us in the background

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09-19-2010, 04:14 PM
  #31
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Sens also only made the playoffs by 7 points (4W's) with 94Pts
Every other year since the lockout 94Pts has been 7-8 with 90-92Pts being 10th

If the Sens don't improve on 94Pts they will be in a fight

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09-19-2010, 04:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Kuba is already a start.

Will Leclaire and Elliott be able to have solid seasons? They will be tested in a hurry to begin the year as the D is incredibly untested. Who kills penalties with Phillips? What happens if Phillips takes a penalty?

A lot of question marks... I'd rather be an underdog then be praised. If the Sens were praised and did not live up to expectations it be like 08 when the media ripped this team apart.

There is enough question marks to keep us in the background
Gonchar kills penalties surprisingly enough. Carkner can kill penalties and either Lee, Cowen or Hale will be the other penalty killer. If Phillips gets a penalty? Well Campoli or Karlsson will have to kill a penalty and worst case we have plenty of penalty killing forwards that could play on the penalty kill.

I think we're safe in those regards.

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Old
09-19-2010, 05:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Kuba is already a start.

Will Leclaire and Elliott be able to have solid seasons? They will be tested in a hurry to begin the year as the D is incredibly untested. Who kills penalties with Phillips? What happens if Phillips takes a penalty?

A lot of question marks... I'd rather be an underdog then be praised. If the Sens were praised and did not live up to expectations it be like 08 when the media ripped this team apart.

There is enough question marks to keep us in the background
I'm not sure if our goaltending can be worse than last year? Weren't they 29th on 30 in SV% last year?

How is our defense INCREDIBLY untested? lol where did you get all that

Phillips = veteran, proven rock solid defensively

Gonchar = the opposite of untested, solid defensively. So much experience at the highest levels

Kuba = proven and consistent all around D-man. Very good defensively except when injured or paired with soft guys. Hopefully, he's finally healthy in 5-6 weeks

Karlsson = this kid is a gem. Underated defensively, he can only get better with experience. Needs to be paired wisely. Put him with Phillips and he'll be solid enough defensively. Not a lot of experience but he played at high levels already (WJC, SEL, NHL season + playoffs)

Campoli = has 5 years under his belt, and not as a 7th D-man. Again, this guy is underated defensively, probably because he fell on sticks and pucks at times. Skates fast enough to cover for his mistakes. Never gives up, plays with heart. Has enough experience at this level.

Carkner = Ok it was his 1st season last year but played as a poised veteran. Plays within his limitations, which is very smart. Solid defensively and has a lot of experience, which is mainly in the AHL, a league just a step below the NHL.

Lee = He's been moving around for years and is the biggest question mark on defense. It's not like we need him to have a big role long term, so very low risk with him

Cowen = Rookie, but i think he plays 9 NHL games and go back to Junior to shine in the WJC ala Pietrangelo

Wiercioch = needs to bulk up and to polish his defensive game, won't play many games in the NHL this year, if any.

Gryba = could surprise and earn a spot on the team at the expense of Lee (traded?). I feel this guy will be a good surprise in the NHL this year. He could play enough since there is always injuries. 24 y/o so he's not a kid

Gonchar and Carkner are decent to good Penalty killers. Lee could play on PK2 as well. Campoli is capable as well. And maybe a rookie. I'm sure it will be Gryba


Of course there is a lot of question marks, but please tell me about 1 team who doesn't. Even the Champs have a lot of queston marks. There is too much parity in the NHL nowadays to go around that. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Hawks miss playoffs. I'm not saying I believe they will, but shocking things like that happened before.

And I don't look at points, but Wins. Sens had 44 wins last year with one of the worst goaltending in the NHL, and despite being top-5 in games missed because of injuries. And our injuries weren't to random depht players, but star and key players.

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Old
09-19-2010, 07:01 PM
  #34
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This injury is going to make it real interesting at times. Talk about learning on the fly for a couple of these guys. We may have a great looking PP now but our PK back against a wall. It can be overcome, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.

The kids are going to get thrown into the fire, I bet ya 1 or 2 of them fills the void admirably. Brian Lee just got handed a big opportunity to be a reliable NHLer, if he sticks with Gonchar I bet you he ups his value, just as long as he lets Gonch do all the shooting for him, he's reasonably good at most of the other stuff. His main problem is his shot is a complete non-factor, even when teams invite him to shoot. It's always appeared to me like Brian Lee would have been a prospect worth using regularly and developing if it wasn't for that muffin shot. He's a plus in the transition game, he understands defence, and he's a pretty good skater.

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09-19-2010, 07:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
This injury is going to make it real interesting at times. Talk about learning on the fly for a couple of these guys. We may have a great looking PP now but our PK back against a wall. It can be overcome, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.

The kids are going to get thrown into the fire, I bet ya 1 or 2 of them fills the void admirably. Brian Lee just got handed a big opportunity to be a reliable NHLer, if he sticks with Gonchar I bet you he ups his value, just as long as he lets Gonch do all the shooting for him, he's reasonably good at most of the other stuff. His main problem is his shot is a complete non-factor, even when teams invite him to shoot. It's always appeared to me like Brian Lee would have been a prospect worth using regularly and developing if it wasn't for that muffin shot. He's a plus in the transition game, he understands defence, and he's a pretty good skater.
It is certainly going to make it interesting. The talk in town is that Phillips & Gonchar are one pairing & with Kuba's injury Campoli is to move up to replace Kuba. That leaves Campoli's LD position open, Lee is a right handed shot so unless he or Caukner can move to the left side it might be one of Hale, Cowen or Wiercioch that takes that spot.

My guess is that Cowen wll get every opportunity to take that spot & with the 9 games we all think he will get might just be long enough for Kuba to return. Most think that Wiercioch & Gryba will likely be sent down to Bingo which sort of leaves Hale or Lee. If Kuba hasn't retuned by then my guess is that the left shooting Hale replaces Kuba going forward rather than Lee although splitting Phillips & Gonchar could easily change that.

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Old
09-20-2010, 08:48 AM
  #36
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I do think this injury will be interesting for the sens. It could mean some prospects getting a chance to prove how they play in the big leagues - especially seeing how they play in the pre-season.

It stil bugs me that they are saying Spezza had a mediocre year when he was almost a point per game player. They said that about a few other guys in the league who ended up being point per game guys (just missed a fair amount of games due to injury).

I still see sens sitting 6-8th. If all players play well together, and LeClaire or Elliot plays consistently (aka re-doing the Jan-Olympic time frame last year) and stay like that for 75-100% of the year, then it will be NO prob to see a playoff team. Even if we have one wicked win streak, I see us easily making the playoffs.

If our D struggles, and our goaltending struggles, it could make for a stressful year. I think offensively we will be fine.

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Old
09-20-2010, 02:38 PM
  #37
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What's even more funny (and ridiculous) is that they project only 13 players in all the NHL to reach the 82 pts plateau...

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=29817

Do they mean that all the other players are mediocre or near mediocre?

lol makes no sense... I can think about this in a couple seconds, and they can't figure it out as it their day jobs? wow.

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09-20-2010, 02:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
What's even more funny (and ridiculous) is that they project only 13 players in all the NHL to reach the 82 pts plateau...

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=29817

Do they mean that all the other players are mediocre or near mediocre?

lol makes no sense... I can think about this in a couple seconds, and they can't figure it out as it their day jobs? wow.
Few players are getting 82 points.
16 last year, 15 the year before and 17 the year before that.

Everybody always over estimates scoring in the NHL... then they come here and say that we need a to replace Fisher with a 90 point centre.

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09-20-2010, 02:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Few players are getting 82 points.
16 last year, 15 the year before and 17 the year before that.

Everybody always over estimates scoring in the NHL... then they come here and say that we need a to replace Fisher with a 90 point centre.
Couldn't hurt

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09-20-2010, 03:00 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Regin-Spezza-Alfie was 11.08% ES and they were together for like 10 games to end the season

Cheechoo-Spezza-Michalek 9.31% ES... so your only looking at about eight games.

Thanks for the tool... not only does the game log prove my point but this tool furthur proves my point.

Spezza spent less ES ice time with Cheechoo then he did with Regin... and he did not play much with Regin
is this argument happening? Cheecho/spezza...

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Old
09-20-2010, 03:24 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Few players are getting 82 points.
16 last year, 15 the year before and 17 the year before that.

Everybody always over estimates scoring in the NHL... then they come here and say that we need a to replace Fisher with a 90 point centre.
Exactly, there is not 10 scorers over 100 pts anymore... That's why spezza with 57 pts in 60 games is very decent. Of course, pre-injury he was having a bad season but when he came back he was puting elite numbers. A pt/game can't be mediocre, only 2% of NHL players reach those numbers in a season.


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09-20-2010, 03:44 PM
  #42
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You have to look at the season as a whole... franchise players with 5G in 28GP is brutal.

If that makes you happy I don't know what to say. He makes 7.0 I have higher expectations.

A great season is consistency with 30G and 80Pts... because you get hot for a stretch does not make the 30 game cold streak vanish

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09-20-2010, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
You have to look at the season as a whole... franchise players with 5G in 28GP is brutal.

If that makes you happy I don't know what to say. He makes 7.0 I have higher expectations.

A great season is consistency with 30G and 80Pts... because you get hot for a stretch does not make the 30 game cold streak vanish
You're dismissing the fact that he was injured.

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09-20-2010, 04:44 PM
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You're dismissing the fact that he was injured.
The injured part plays no issue in the fact that the season was average.

Ya he was injured but he still sucked for the first half

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09-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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The injured part plays no issue in the fact that the season was average.

Ya he was injured but he still sucked for the first half
Lets not harp on the past and look forward to the future. Everything is pointing for Spezza to have a good year this year.

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09-20-2010, 04:54 PM
  #46
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The injured part plays no issue in the fact that the season was average.

Ya he was injured but he still sucked for the first half
Maybe he sucked because he was injured?

He was not mediocre post injury so I don't see your point.

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09-20-2010, 05:05 PM
  #47
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Maybe he sucked because he was injured?

He was not mediocre post injury so I don't see your point.
The person who called Spezza mediocre was looking at his entire season not just cutting snippets from it.

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09-20-2010, 05:14 PM
  #48
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He also got to play with Alfredsson and Michalek plus loads of PP time. It was an average season for Spezza what he did after coming back from the injury saved it from being dreadful.

He needs to play that way from game one... his salary and role on this team demands it. He has to be franchise beginning game one.
I think he knows this. It seems like your tippy toeing around the fact that he was injured and admittedly should not have been playing. He had extended time off and he came back and played some of the best hockey of his life, finally using that scoring ability we knew he had.

I'm always hard on the guy. This team's not gonna surprise anyone if he's not on top of his game. Personally, I think he might blow us all away. This could potentially be one of those seasons that defines his career, and from I've seen and heard, it appears he thinks so as well. We drafted him to eventually take control of this team, we know he's got the talent, and I expect production.

I'm more concerned with Jason Spezza the leader, because up until the end of last season, I hadn't been convinced. I like what I've seen from him so far...

How far we go this year will largely depend on this guy, and it's got less to do about production totals and more to do with when he produces. One way or another I think he'll save his name around the league this year.

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09-20-2010, 05:18 PM
  #49
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They made a mistake with the article. Under every column it should provide an in depth argument on how nobody likes the Senators. I don't mean to troll, but seriously...more Leafs fans show up Sens games. I love Ottawa though. Boss.

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09-20-2010, 05:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
The person who called Spezza mediocre was looking at his entire season not just cutting snippets from it.
I dont think the person calling his season mediocre cares much for honest/accurate details. The media's focus on our team (and other teams) is always so surface level and shortsighted. All the headlines reading Spezza needs to step up after putting up the worst numbers of us career also fail to publish the fact that he only played 60 games.

I'd rather listen to some of the posters here about where our team is and where it is going rather than listen to some media type who is forced to use the word Spezza as many times as possible when writing about the Sens because otherwise people don't care to read it.

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