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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other)

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Old
10-14-2010, 05:52 AM
  #301
UAGoalieGuy
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Horak was left off the scoresheet last night. His team won 4-3, though.

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Old
10-14-2010, 07:39 AM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriFF51 View Post
McIlrath pounds another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g-AYm2cxE
Wow...thats pain.

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Old
10-14-2010, 07:46 AM
  #303
offdacrossbar
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in order of importance to me for my prized 1st round draft pick taken @ 10.

1. playing complete 2 way game.

2. getting involved offensively

3. playing nasty, physical brand of hockey

4. beating some ones grill

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Old
10-14-2010, 08:18 AM
  #304
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there's about 5 guys in the entire league that fill those requirements if that at all. you want it from a 10th pick overall in a weak draft.

i'd be happy with a mean top 4 dman

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10-14-2010, 09:37 AM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
in order of importance to me for my prized 1st round draft pick taken @ 10.

1. playing complete 2 way game.

2. getting involved offensively

3. playing nasty, physical brand of hockey

4. beating some ones grill
How many guys in the league meet all those requirements? Not many at all. Chris Pronger isn't available at #10 every draft.

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Old
10-14-2010, 09:38 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
in order of importance to me for my prized 1st round draft pick taken @ 10.

1. playing complete 2 way game.

2. getting involved offensively

3. playing nasty, physical brand of hockey

4. beating some ones grill

In my opinion, if the Rangers used their "top ten" selection on a guy who has limited offensive ability but is a rock defensively and physically, then there's no way I'm disappointed. I think you may be putting too much stock in draft position, although, given the circumstances of this draft- Fowler and Gromley available- I can see where you're coming from. It makes me think of the leafs trading up to pick Luke Schenn in the "top five" to get a player with limited offensive ability but a physical defensive defense man.

Edit: I don't think he means that McIlrath has to meet all of those requirements, just the order of importance in terms of player attributes picked in the top ten.

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Old
10-14-2010, 09:48 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
How many guys in the league meet all those requirements? Not many at all. Chris Pronger isn't available at #10 every draft.
my point is that im hopeful that this kid will bring more than just #4 every night.

even if he brought 3 and 4, i still say thats not what #10 picks are for and if he doesnt show any offensive upside, im not sure he warrants where he was picked.

look, tough as nails, stay at home defensive dman are terrific, god knows we have needed one for along time. but.... and here's the rub, we've got guys like mcd, vtank and kundratek in the system now with pashnin not far behind. all are young, physical decent looking prospects, so im wondering if mcilrath is going to be that much better than any of those 4 ??

i keep hearing about "drafting for need" and many here look at the mcilrath pick as just that. ive never been a big proponent of that strategy. i always say draft the best hockey player when you come up to the podium.

we shall see how this kid develops.

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Old
10-14-2010, 09:49 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvage21 View Post
In my opinion, if the Rangers used their "top ten" selection on a guy who has limited offensive ability but is a rock defensively and physically, then there's no way I'm disappointed. I think you may be putting too much stock in draft position, although, given the circumstances of this draft- Fowler and Gromley available- I can see where you're coming from. It makes me think of the leafs trading up to pick Luke Schenn in the "top five" to get a player with limited offensive ability but a physical defensive defense man.

Edit: I don't think he means that McIlrath has to meet all of those requirements, just the order of importance in terms of player attributes picked in the top ten.

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Old
10-14-2010, 09:52 AM
  #309
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Del Zotto is nice for the PP, but our defensive core really does need a top pairing defenseman who is great both on the PP and PK.

Right now Rozsival is our only dman who is playing top PP and PK minutes, and his offensive flare has died down quite a bit over the last few seasons.

So yes, to me, Mac's offensive game is very important. If he could somehow become a do-everything defenseman for us, and develops in time to play a couple years with Staal, it would be great for this franchise.

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Old
10-14-2010, 10:06 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
my point is that im hopeful that this kid will bring more than just #4 every night.
Was Beukeboom a "#4?"

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Old
10-14-2010, 10:10 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Wow...thats pain.
Damn, I don't think I've ever seen such a one-sided fight

offdacrossbar, it's pretty clear you like attention... a lot of it. Everyone knows your stance already, why do you have to keep repeating it every other post? Can you give the guy a chance for christ sakes? We don't need his stats line every game to "prove" your point. Come on already.

If it happens that he doesn't live up to expectation then it happens. Is it really necessary to whine about it every step of the way? What are you going to change at this point?

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Old
10-14-2010, 10:43 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Damn, I don't think I've ever seen such a one-sided fight

offdacrossbar, it's pretty clear you like attention... a lot of it. Everyone knows your stance already, why do you have to keep repeating it every other post? Can you give the guy a chance for christ sakes? We don't need his stats line every game to "prove" your point. Come on already.

If it happens that he doesn't live up to expectation then it happens. Is it really necessary to whine about it every step of the way? What are you going to change at this point?
um no.

im just answering and giving my opinion. clarifications pretty much. no whining.

if you notice mr. thirdeye, i rarely ever start new threads. im not as much of an attention seeker as you think i am.

if i were to pick an area that interests me the most, other than watching the actual games, it would be our draft picks and their progression through the system. thats what i really like, especially with my background of having been around youth, high school and junior hockey as a coach, player parent, administrator and occasional part time scout the last 20 or so years.

so having me have an opinion on one of our draft picks should come as no surprise.

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Old
10-14-2010, 11:19 AM
  #313
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Sounds a bit like whining where I come from off, if not a bit boorish and redundant.

It's always important to keep perspective. So to be a bit redundant myself, lets revisit who was sitting in the room when the decision was made to pick McIlrath:

Gordie Clark, Jeff Gorton, Mark Messier, Adam Graves, Jim Schoenfeld, Mike Barnett, and Glen Sather among others.

So these folks (with about a millennium of hockey experience) decide that the Rangers have need for players who opponents hate playing against. They decide McIlrath fits the bill to such a degree that they will stick with him come what may.

Now, I realize off that you have your connections, the full WHL package, a decent hockey acumen, and a pick you really wanted.

Given your considerable Curriculum Vitae off, I will still side with the likes of Clark and Gorton.

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Old
10-14-2010, 11:49 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Sounds a bit like whining where I come from off, if not a bit boorish and redundant.

It's always important to keep perspective. So to be a bit redundant myself, lets revisit who was sitting in the room when the decision was made to pick McIlrath:

Gordie Clark, Jeff Gorton, Mark Messier, Adam Graves, Jim Schoenfeld, Mike Barnett, and Glen Sather among others.

So these folks (with about a millennium of hockey experience) decide that the Rangers have need for players who opponents hate playing against. They decide McIlrath fits the bill to such a degree that they will stick with him come what may.

Now, I realize off that you have your connections, the full WHL package, a decent hockey acumen, and a pick you really wanted.

Given your considerable Curriculum Vitae off, I will still side with the likes of Clark and Gorton.
hey, you arent patronzing me are you ? seems like a bit of mockery here mr pizza.

and boorish and redundant...... you been talkin to mrs. offdacrossbar ?

each and every one of us are entitled to an opinion on certain draft choices. some based on nothing more than.... "i would have gone in a different direction". however, there are some people here that base their positions on solid, factual research. you have some very astute draftniks on this site, if you havent noticed. and for the record, im not in any way trying to imply that i am one of those posters..... if you are a regular here, you know whom im referring to.

but keep in mind, there were lots of big names, long careers and large egos in the room when players like

montoya
jessiman
korpikoski

were all chosen. for the record, i disagreed with all 3 of these choices immediately and i mean big time.

so your point is what exactly ?

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Old
10-14-2010, 11:50 AM
  #315
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Chara was never known as a point-producer, he turned out alright.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=28487

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:29 PM
  #316
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It's really kind of absurd the flack you get around here if you dare to disagree with something. As if this team hasn't made plenty of flat out awful decisions in every aspect of player acquisitions before.

Just remember that some of us said how overrated this kid was months before the draft. That he had more in common with goons than he did with Chris Pronger. That his mental game was a zero. These opinions didn't form after the Rangers selected him.

I know it's HF, but not every prospect is the second coming.

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:34 PM
  #317
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The problem is, of our past mistakes, not a one was selected by Clarke.
Since Clarke?
Del Zotto
Stepan
Kreider
Et al

Everyone complained about those picks as well

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:38 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Just remember that some of us said how overrated this kid was months before the draft.
That makes no sense.... How was the kid overrated BEFORE the draft? He wasn't on anyone's radar to be picked where he was... None of the beat writers had mentioned him... He wasn't listed on any of the draft projections in our pick range, how was he overrated? I don't recall people on this forum discussing him....

I don't see people overrating him in this thread, just getting on people who are throwing an 18 year old under the bus who's 5 games into his season.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 10-14-2010 at 01:01 PM.
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Old
10-14-2010, 12:47 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That makes no sense.... How was the kid overrated BEFORE the draft? He wasn't on anyone's radar... None of the beat writers had mentioned him... He wasn't listed on any of the draft projections in our pick range, how was he overrated? I don't recall people on this forum discussing him....

I don't see people overrating him in this thread, just getting on people who are throwing an 18 year old under the bus who's 5 games into his season.
thats just not true.

he was one of the fastest rising players all spring.

i mentioned him a few times as one of the players to watch. i even highlighted him and did a small blurb about him. its all right there in the draft thread.

i actually said that if he was available at the top of round 2, i would have definitely moved up and taken him over tinordi, johns, etc.

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:50 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
thats just not true.

he was one of the fastest rising players all spring.

i mentioned him a few times as one of the players to watch. i even highlighted him and did a small blurb about him. its all right there in the draft thread.

i actually said that if he was available at the top of round 2, i would have definitely moved up and taken him over tinordi, johns, etc.
Mckenzie had him going 15 in his draft preview. He was a fast riser as it got closer to the draft. A lot of teams, not just the Rangers, were very interested in moving up to grab him.

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:58 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Mckenzie had him going 15 in his draft preview. He was a fast riser as it got closer to the draft. A lot of teams, not just the Rangers, were very interested in moving up to grab him.
yes thats true.

he was a guy whos size and skills were always appealing but his play down the stretch with moosejaw and especially in the playoffs is what really caught the eye of many scouts.

i loved the kid in round 2, over the other similar dmen i mentioned before. problem is he wouldnt have been available then and thus, i would have passed on him, instead taking what i felt was the better overall hockey player in vladamir tarasenko or cam fowler.

i still cant help but feel this was a guy we fell in love with and imo, last time that happened we ended up with huge specimen.

i hope im wrong.

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:59 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
hey, you arent patronzing me are you ? seems like a bit of mockery here mr pizza.

and boorish and redundant...... you been talkin to mrs. offdacrossbar ?

each and every one of us are entitled to an opinion on certain draft choices. some based on nothing more than.... "i would have gone in a different direction". however, there are some people here that base their positions on solid, factual research. you have some very astute draftniks on this site, if you havent noticed. and for the record, im not in any way trying to imply that i am one of those posters..... if you are a regular here, you know whom im referring to.

but keep in mind, there were lots of big names, long careers and large egos in the room when players like

montoya
jessiman
korpikoski

were all chosen. for the record, i disagreed with all 3 of these choices immediately and i mean big time.

so your point is what exactly ?
Mocking no, more like chiding. Given some of my posts in the past I'm in no position to mock anyone here.

But you take it in stride and with some self deprecation, so good for you.

Two points:

First, Clark was not in charge of the drafts that yielded the stellar picks of Montoya, Jessiman, and Korpikoski.

Clark's drafts have yielded Stepan, Grachev, Del Zotto, Horak, Werek, Krieder.

Big, big difference there imo. These were decisions that were made after countless visits to far off hockey rinks.

2nd; as others have said, we get where you are coming from. It seems to me that you are using McIlrath's slow start to justify that the pick was ill advised.

I simply point out that you like virtually all on these boards don't really know squat.

That's no slam on you. You are entitled to your opinion of course. But you come into some chiding when you state your opinion as if you have some considerable experience or track record.

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Old
10-14-2010, 12:59 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
thats just not true.

he was one of the fastest rising players all spring.

i mentioned him a few times as one of the players to watch. i even highlighted him and did a small blurb about him. its all right there in the draft thread.

i actually said that if he was available at the top of round 2, i would have definitely moved up and taken him over tinordi, johns, etc.
And none of this made him overrated prior to being drafted does it?

And when I say "wasn't on the radar", I don't mean with regards to being drafted, but certainly with regards to being picked by the Rangers and among the fan base as a possible selection with our #1 pick.

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Old
10-14-2010, 01:04 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by TriFF51 View Post
McIlrath pounds another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g-AYm2cxE
sheesh...he murdered him in that one.

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10-14-2010, 01:08 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
in order of importance to me for my prized 1st round draft pick taken @ 10.

1. playing complete 2 way game.

2. getting involved offensively

3. playing nasty, physical brand of hockey

4. beating some ones grill


Well, personally here is my importance for a defenseman while being more specific...

1)Be a rock in your own zone.

2)Be a good skater.

3)Get the puck up to the forwards quickly

4)Be physical

5)Have a booming shot from the point

6)Be able to fight.


I havent seen McIlrath in person yet so I cant make any judements other than hes superb at #6, and the way Gordie Clark talks about him he has a chance at doing all 6 very well. Still though, I would have taken a forward...Tarasenko, who I wasnt even all that high on, would have been a better choice to me. *shrugs*

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